Muslim intolerance of non muslims

[SgtRock]

I have starterd this thread to point out the double standard that exhist today. If someone such as myself is critical of Islam or muslims he or she is labled a racist or a bigot. The same people who condem me constantly defend bigoted and hateful speech that Imams and mullahs espouses constantly.

I understand that many religious leaders of all faiths are guilty of bigotry to some extent. However, it is my opinion that Islamic clerics are guilty of spreading there hatred amongst there flocks like so much manure on the fields of fertile minds. This has resulted in the situation we have today.

I will be posting examples of Muslim intolerance towards non believers (Kaffar)in this thread. I will also post examples of our response to Islamic intolerance. I will be called a bigot and a racist by those who refuse to open there eyes and see the truth. The truth that threatens freedom and basic human rights in our fragile world today.

(I highlighted today because I am refering to now. As opposed to say, the crusades)

On Fascism and Islamophobia
source: Brussels Journal

On Fascism and Islamophobia | The Brussels Journal

Pakistan: Another unjust imprisonment under the blasphemy laws.
source: World Net Daily

WorldNetDaily: Woman seeks lumber, gets jailed

Quebec village bans stoning of women, veils, and excision.
source: Judeoscope

The Quebec village of Hérouxville, 1300 inhabitants, has formally banned this week the stoning of women, face veils, female genital mutilation, or throwing acid at unveiled women’s faces, reports Montreal daily La Presse....
The nature of the Hérouxville bans suggests however that local politicians had Quebec Muslims in mind, though not a single Muslim or member of any religious or ethnic minority calls Hérouxville home. But referring to Quebec’s policy of encouraging immigrants to settle outside Montreal, Drouin says it was important to inform potential immigrants of the villages cultural norms: "We must ensure that people who come here want to live as we do", he told La Presse, "The Muslims who wanted to impose Sharia, had they known that we do not stone women here, maybe they would not have come".

Along with the bans, the Hérouxville document states that Christmas trees are a Quebec tradition, that swimming pools are mixed, and that pork meat and beef are displayed on the same shelves. Asked whether he fears being labeled a racist, Drouin answers: “We are not racists, we are explaining our culture".

 

[Monk-Eye]

Creating A Frenzy

"Creating A Frenzy"

THE REPENTANCE (9) (al-tawbah)

 

[Southern Belle]

Re: Creating A Frenzy

Thank you for starting this thread, I was thinking of starting a similar one... All over, every time a discussion of the terrorists is started and people try to discuss the Koran, usually other people do whatever they can to shift focus on the bible, to take the heat off the Koran, even in a simple discussion.

I was gonna call my thread "Oh, but the Christians..."

I mean Jeez, the Radical Islamic terrorists caused 9/11, how in the world do Americans do everything in their power to keep other Americans from discussing it?

That's just like defending Nazis and keeping people from discussing what is needed to help the jews and pointing out all the bad stuff in the OT and making people feel like the Jews don't need to be discussed cause they're all gonna die anyway because they are bad and we shouldn't care.

 

[bub]

I have starterd this thread to point out the double standard that exhist today. If someone such as myself is critical of Islam or muslims he or she is labled a racist or a bigot. The same people who condem me constantly defend bigoted and hateful speech that Imams and mullahs espouses constantly.

I understand that many religious leaders of all faiths are guilty of bigotry to some extent. However, it is my opinion that Islamic clerics are guilty of spreading there hatred amongst there flocks like so much manure on the fields of fertile minds. This has resulted in the situation we have today.

No you're not bigots nor racist. You simply haven't met any muslim yet.

I live in Brussels (thats funny,the newspaper you linked has the same name ) and there are lots of people from other countries. People from all over the world (probably because of the numerous embassies), but mainly from Poland, Italy and Africa. That's why there are many muslims at my university and that's why I met some of them.

Seen from Texas or Louisiana, through the bias of American medias, speaking only about the terrorists and other car bombers, the typical muslim may look extremist. Your proof is that its written in the Kuran.

However, 90% of them are peaceful, so are the Christians, the Jews, the Buddhists...

Those I know don't eat pig and some pray every day (thats strange to a typical European, who do not use to pray) and sometimes they speak arabish, but they are not different from the other peoples.

I rad an article in a newspaper saying "the Muslims today are what the Jews were in the 30's": they have the same stereotypes, we also think they are all united against the Occident...which is totally wrong.

Terrorism is not inherent to Islam. There were also Christian and Jew terrorists. Now there are many muslim terrorists, because we (the Occident) is extremely rich and powerful compared to muslim countries. They feel sad, backwarded, they are not proud to be muslim. They feel rejected by the modern world and turn to radical Islam in order to change it. Their scapegoat is Israel and the USA which are the symbols of modernity. However, all the different conflicts where islamists are fighting are not linked: those are all local conflicts which have nothing to do with the Occident. Religion is just a pretext to unify guerilleros having different objectives against an unique scapegoat.

But if we were the "rejected", we would not be different from the islamists. We would also turn to an ideology and fight against a scapegoat. That's what the anarchists did in 1880's against bourgeoisie (you can check on the internet, there were also terror attacks at that time, by white people) "in order to protect workers", and that was the same in the 30's with Fascism, whose scapegoat was the Jews, "the cause of the post-WWI poverty".

That's why I think violence is not inherent to Islam. Its inherent to several factors: feeling to be rejected, feeling of inferiority, failed state with incapable administration, poverty, insecurity...all those factors are met now in the Middle-East, but could also be met in the USA or everywhere in the world.

 

[Monk-Eye]

Circumventing The Theocrats

"Circumventing The Theocrats"

No you're not bigots nor racist. You simply haven't met any muslim yet.
...
However, 90% of them are peaceful, so are the Christians, the Jews, the Buddhists...

Would you say that 90% of atheists, pagans, or whichever way religion wants to define the people who do not believe in a final judgement and an eternal lake of fire, are peaceful?

Peaceful has little to do with the opinion and persuasion towards the enforcement of social policy. Intolerant laws are often carried out politely, non-violently, and with indifference. At least, there are times, when they start out that way.

 

[bub]

OK I re-write my point: a huge majority of people from every religion are tolerant towards the others, in fact they don't really care if you are Jew, Christian or Muslim. Example: the Pakistani who owns a grocery store just under my student room and the 90 other % of people living in the USA, in Asia, in Africa or in the Middle-East.

The others are untolerant, uneducated, extremists or have never travelled.
Example: Bin Laden, those who believe the muslims are backwarded, those who think the jews must be killed...

Its up to you to choose to which category you belong :doh

 

[SgtRock]

Love rumour sparks Muslim-Christian clash in Egypt
13 Feb 2007 16:09:24 GMT
Source: Reuters


CAIRO, Feb 13 (Reuters) - Groups of Egyptian Muslims set fire to Christian-owned shops in southern Egypt after hearing rumours of a love affair between a Muslim woman and a Coptic Christian man, security sources and a witness said on Tuesday.

Eight Muslim men were arrested in the town of Armant, around 600 km (375 miles) south of Cairo, on suspicion of taking part in arson attacks on four stores and a mini-van owned by Coptic Christians, the security sources said.

The rumours began on Saturday and calm was restored by Tuesday, with security forces deployed in the town as a precaution, one security official said.

Traditional Islamic law allows Muslim men to marry Christian women but not Christian men to marry Muslim women. Romances across the divide are one of the main sources of tension between Egypt's two main religious communities.

Hala Botros, a Christian blogger from the region, said Copts in Armant were still scared to leave their homes.

"The situation has improved slightly but people go out only if they really have to," Botros, who regularly reports attacks on Christians on her blog under the name Hala el-Masry, told Reuters by telephone.

Coptic Christians make up to 10 percent of the about 75 million Egyptians, most of whom are Sunni Muslims.

Relations between the two communities are usually peaceful but there are sporadic outbreaks of violence. In 1999, 22 people were killed in communal strife in southern Egypt.

Another example of muslim intolerance. ~ Sgt Rock

 

[Dogger807]

I'm disturbed by hate speech no matter what source. I condemn it coming from christians or muslims. It's my opinion that the muslim variety is much more of a direct threat at this time in history.

However just because the claymore of muslim hate is so menacing right now doesn't mean we should ignore the rapier that is christian hate.
​

 

[SgtRock]

I'm disturbed by hate speech no matter what source. I condemn it coming from christians or muslims. It's my opinion that the muslim variety is much more of a direct threat at this time in history.

However just because the claymore of muslim hate is so menacing right now doesn't mean we should ignore the rapier that is christian hate.
​

I am a member of a local church here in texas. Our church feeds the poor. I volunteer and take food downtown to ditribute it to people on the streets. While we our doing this we do not even so much as mention that we are members of a church.

We also run a shelter for battered women. We help to cloth and feed the poor all over the world including Africa and India.

We do not force our religion down anyones throat. I have not heard my pastor say one mean or hatefull thing, ever. He is the kindest most gentle person you would ever meet.

America gives more food, medicine, clothing, and Aid to the worlds disadvantaged than all of the rest of the world combined. And much of this is from christians and church groups.

Look, I am not saying that there are not any christians that hate. What I am saying is that most Christians are kind, loving, and careing people.

 

[PoliticalActivist]

To me the bottomline is plain and simple. Regardless to anyone's faith they have the rights to believe in that faith. Like Bub stated ... How can anyone dislike someone that they have never been around,or understand their faith
or beliefs? This is a so-called free country (which includes the freedom to worship), but our self hate is destorying that, and until we shut our mouths
to learn about each other...we are in bad damn shape. Thanks Bub, and Dogger.

 

[Monk-Eye]

Class Sick

"Class Sick"

Love rumour sparks Muslim-Christian clash in Egypt
13 Feb 2007 16:09:24 GMT
Source: Reuters
CAIRO, Feb 13 (Reuters) - Groups of Egyptian Muslims set fire to Christian-owned shops in southern Egypt after hearing rumours of a love affair between a Muslim woman and a Coptic Christian man, security sources and a witness said on Tuesday.
.....
Traditional Islamic law allows Muslim men to marry Christian women but not Christian men to marry Muslim women. Romances across the divide are one of the main sources of tension between Egypt's two main religious communities.
Another example of muslim intolerance. ~ Sgt Rock

Thanks Sgt Rock.
And, we have not even come to the anti-libertarian social policies, implemented by election and semantically enforced "peacefully" by law. These issues are held close to their chests.

 

[Dogger807]

I am a member of a local church here in texas. Our church feeds the poor. I volunteer and take food downtown to ditribute it to people on the streets. While we our doing this we do not even so much as mention that we are members of a church.

We also run a shelter for battered women. We help to cloth and feed the poor all over the world including Africa and India.

We do not force our religion down anyones throat. I have not heard my pastor say one mean or hatefull thing, ever. He is the kindest most gentle person you would ever meet.

America gives more food, medicine, clothing, and Aid to the worlds disadvantaged than all of the rest of the world combined. And much of this is from christians and church groups.

Look, I am not saying that there are not any christians that hate. What I am saying is that most Christians are kind, loving, and careing people.

and that changes nothing of what I said.

Pointing out the good people who happen to be christians does not make the bad people who are christians nonexistent or inconsequential.

 

[bub]

Hi!

I am a member of a local church here in texas. Our church feeds the poor. I volunteer and take food downtown to ditribute it to people on the streets. While we our doing this we do not even so much as mention that we are members of a church.

We also run a shelter for battered women. We help to cloth and feed the poor all over the world including Africa and India.

That's very good. To be honest, I don't do as much as you.

However, you don't seem aware of what Islam is (I'm Christian but for my political sciences course I had to read texts about Egypt's "Islamization" in the 80's).

As Christianism, its goal is to spread its influence as much as possible. Surprisingly, they don't do it by violence. As our Church, they fund things for the poor people. In my first post I said they supplied free school and free transportation, but they also fund clothes and food for poor people. This way, Egyptian people liked Islam and disliked their government more and more. I can scan you the full text if you're not convinced.

We do not force our religion down anyones throat. I have not heard my pastor say one mean or hatefull thing, ever. He is the kindest most gentle person you would ever meet.

Thats true that there are less extremist Christians than Muslims. That's because we are wealthy and dominating the world. They don't. They are hopeless and poor. Extremism is the way they found to change the world.

But extremists represent only a few percents of the Muslims. Never forget that 95% of them totally don't care about Bush or Bin Laden. They just want to live in peace. But they are never shown on FoxNews.

America gives more food, medicine, clothing, and Aid to the worlds disadvantaged than all of the rest of the world combined. And much of this is from christians and church groups.

America gives a lot, but you're not very accurate:

However, US levels of foreign aid fall far short of this goal; the US currently ranks last among the world's wealthiest countries at about 0.1 percent of GNP. [...]In 2001, the United States gave $10.9 billion, Japan $9.7 billion, Germany $4.9 billion, the France $4.3 billion. As a percentage of GNP, however, the top donors were Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Sweden. The tiny Netherlands (pop. 5.3 million) gave $3.2 billion in 2001 — almost a third of what America contributed.

Look, I am not saying that there are not any christians that hate. What I am saying is that most Christians are kind, loving, and careing people.

Eh I'm just saying the same about Muslims!

As for your article, I could tell you that Christians did much worse during the Inquisition. Spain got rid of all its Jews and Muslims just after the end of the Reconquista. Many of them where scientists or artists that have contributed a lot to our culture, and we simply deported them.

That leads to what I'd like you to understand (read carefully ): Around the tenth century, China and the Muslim World dominated the rest of the world. The European civilization was nothing compared to Islam. They had great scientists, astrologs, mathematicians (they invented the algebra, Al-Geibra, and the Astrolabe, while the Chineses invented imprimery, paper, canon powder and the little thing you use to find the North but I can't translate it).

However, one day, China decided it was the middle of the earth, that they were the bests and didn't need to learn from so rest of the World, which sucked, according to them. They closed their frontiers. So did the Muslim world, for religious reasons.

And in a few decades, Europe, which was curious and believed in progress and freedom of people (thats not BS that comes from a serious book), took the Chinese thing to find the North and the Arab's Astrolabe, and explored the world. That brought a lot of gold (like in Age of Empires) and we dominated the world.

Morale of the story: don't reject the foreigner because you think he's backwarded.

 

[americanwoman]

I just have a question for SgtRock, do you know any muslims personally? I am lucky enough to have many muslim friends and while they are different from me, neither of us are intolerant of each other. On the contrary we learn from each other and give something to another that we may not receive being around the same type of people. I am just asking this because all of your misguiding about muslims are from second hand sources and not firsthand. I would recommend, if you are interested, try going to a local mosque and meeting some muslims so you can see for yourself many muslims are not intolerant but in fact open minded.

Thats true that there are less extremist Christians than Muslims. That's because we are wealthy and dominating the world. They don't. They are hopeless and poor. Extremism is the way they found to change the world.

But extremists represent only a few percents of the Muslims. Never forget that 95% of them totally don't care about Bush or Bin Laden. They just want to live in peace. But they are never shown on FoxNews.

very good point there bub.

 

[Navy Seal Patriot]

If someone such as myself is critical of Islam or muslims he or she is labled a racist or a bigot.

I hear you--though alot of anti-Islam supporters do exist on DP. You should try giving verses from the Jewish Talmud--you get more resistance and racial slur calling.

"A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated." -9boda Sarah 37

"A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl." -&ad. Shas. 2:2

"A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat her as he treats a piece of meat." -Hadarine, 20, B; Schulchan 9ruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348

 

[bub]

And if you looked at some verses of the Bible, you could also find such things.

That's my point:

Bible = Kuran = Talmud
You can find a lot of things in those books. Mostly good but also some violent verses.

Christian = Muslim = Jew
Most are peaceful but some are extremists and untolerant.

 

[SgtRock]

I just have a question for SgtRock, do you know any muslims personally? I am lucky enough to have many muslim friends and while they are different from me, neither of us are intolerant of each other. On the contrary we learn from each other and give something to another that we may not receive being around the same type of people. I am just asking this because all of your misguiding about muslims are from second hand sources and not firsthand. I would recommend, if you are interested, try going to a local mosque and meeting some muslims so you can see for yourself many muslims are not intolerant but in fact open minded.



very good point there bub.

I do have some muslim friends. I work with muslims as well. I know there are moderate muslims. However, they are loosing the battle for Islam. They will be the first ones to tell you this.

I had a friend named Walid. Walid is a muslim. We used to get together to watch football/Basketball games. We had been friends for a long time. Once I asked him if we could watch the game at his house, He said that would'nt be possible. I asked him why?

Walid was married and had a 14 year old daughter. He said " my daughter will be home. I said thats fine she can watch the gane with us. He explained to me that his father would not approve of a Kaffar (non believer) being around his daughter or in his home. I told him I understand.

Later I found out that his father had died many years ago. I was offended and I felt that he didn't trust me around his family. I thought to myself, does he think Im some kind of pervert. Anyway, I didn't like the idea that he felt this way about non believers. Needless to say we are no longer friends. How can I be friends with someone who thinks I am a not worthy to meet or even be around his family. ~ Sgt Rock

 

[bub]

OK.

Now, a question: If he had been Jew, would you have started a topic called "Jewish intolerance of non Jews"?

 

[SgtRock]

OK.

Now, a question: If he had been Jew, would you have started a topic called "Jewish intolerance of non Jews"?

You misunderstand, I did not start this thread because of Walid. I started it because at this time in history the west and freedom its self is under attack by people who have twisted Islam and are useing it to justify Jihad and hatred of non believers.

I have some question for you?
1) Was it jews from Saudi Arabia that attacked on 9-11?
2)Was it jewsish homocide bombers that attacked London on 7-7?
3) Was it jews that entered Israel and killed/kidnaped soldiers last summer, starting a war with Israel?
4) Do you believe that Israel has a right to defend its self?
5) How do you tell the difference between a moderate muslim and a terrorist?

I can go on and on giving you examples of Jihad around the world from Indonisa, Thailand, Russia, London, India, Germany, Britan, the Philipines, Israel, Netherlands, and France etc.

If you refuse to open your eyes there is nothing I can do for you, you are lost. ~ Sgt Rock

 

[bub]

My answer is in the previous posts I made. If you don't agree, at least tell me why. But don't come back with the very argument I proved to be false.

I did not start this thread because of Walid

So why do you speak about him? What was your point? To show that the Muslims in Texas were great and that you understood them and liked them?

However I agree with this sentence:

I started it because at this time in history the west and freedom its self is under attack by people who have twisted Islam and are useing it to justify Jihad and hatred of non believers

Using Islam to justify Jihad!

1) They could use the Bible. That's what we did during the Inquisition. Or Mein Kampf. Or Harry Potter. That does not make every guy who reads Harry Potter a terrorist.
2) I already explained you why they were in Jihad.
3) I already told you extremists were a very small minority.
4) I can also give you examples of Christians killing Jews. The Shoah, for example. Does every Christian want to kill the Jews? I doubt so.

 

[SgtRock]

So why do you speak about him? What was your point? To show that the Muslims in Texas were great and that you understood them and liked them?

I brought up Walid because American Woman asked me "do you know any muslims personally"

Walid was a bigot, to him I was a Kaffar.

You have proved nothing to me.

The things I am refering to are up to date. Why do you continue to bring up ancient history.

You say terrorist are a small minority of muslims, how do you know this. Did they tell you that? Why should you believe them?

 

[bub]

You have proved nothing to me.

Neither did you. If you don't answer to my arguments, the debate is not constructive and your place may not be here.

Why do you continue to bring up ancient history.

:rofl because what happens now is explained by history, dude

You say terrorist are a small minority of muslims, how do you know this. Did they tell you that? Why should you believe them?

Because I don't consider the muslims I met as enemies. And last time I checked, they had no bomb in their schoolbag.

Your prejudices against Muslims are the same prejudices Germans had towards the Jews. You are not aware of this. I am. That's why history is important.