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Murtha Using "Michael Moore" Politics?

Paladin

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Murtha AP

AP said:
Hawkish Democrat Calls for Iraq Pullout
By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer 25 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - An influential House Democrat who voted for the Iraq war called Thursday for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, another sign of growing unease in Congress about the conflict.



Murtha, a Marine intelligence officer in Vietnam, angrily shot back at Cheney: "I like guys who've never been there that criticize us who've been there. I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and send people to war, and then don't like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done."
I especially like the part I highlighted. I don't think much of Cheney because he "had better things to do" rather than serve in Vietnam.
ted
 
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danarhea

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Murtha Using "Michael Moore" Politics?

This charge by Scott McClellan is in itself hilarious. Murtha may be a Democrat, but is the biggest hawk in the party, and has supported Bush completely since the war started. Today, Murtha did a 180 and told Americans that we must leave Iraq within 6 months. Until today, he was one of the Bush administration's best friends. Today, according to the White House, he is associated with Michael Moore. Anybody buying this load of garbage?

BTW - Murtha is a retired US Marine Colonel with a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts. How many of his detractors have have this kind of resume? What this shows is that our leaders are intent on carrying out this war to the last drop of other peoples' blood.

Article is here.
 

aps

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danarhea said:
This charge by Scott McClellan is in itself hilarious. Murtha may be a Democrat, but is the biggest hawk in the party, and has supported Bush completely since the war started. Today, Murtha did a 180 and told Americans that we must leave Iraq within 6 months. Until today, he was one of the Bush administration's best friends. Today, according to the White House, he is associated with Michael Moore. Anybody buying this load of garbage?

BTW - Murtha is a retired US Marine Colonel with a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts. How many of his detractors have have this kind of resume? What this shows is that our leaders are intent on carrying out this war to the last drop of other peoples' blood.

Article is here.
LOL I find it utterlyl "irresponsible" that the Bush people would turn on someone who is a decorated war veteran and a HUGE supporter of the troops just because he disagrees with them on this issue. I actually feel kind of sad because the Bush Administration is desperate and will say anything to hurt those who question them. Do we have some kind of dictatorship here that people can't disagree with our president?
 

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danarhea said:
This charge by Scott McClellan is in itself hilarious. Murtha may be a Democrat, but is the biggest hawk in the party, and has supported Bush completely since the war started. Today, Murtha did a 180 and told Americans that we must leave Iraq within 6 months. Until today, he was one of the Bush administration's best friends. Today, according to the White House, he is associated with Michael Moore. Anybody buying this load of garbage?

BTW - Murtha is a retired US Marine Colonel with a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts. How many of his detractors have have this kind of resume? What this shows is that our leaders are intent on carrying out this war to the last drop of other peoples' blood.

Article is here.
It is amazing, the intellectual and moral capacity of our marines... if only they are given the true support that they need. They were and are good people of a very high caliber. At times the indoctrination gets the better of them. That's all I will say.
 

danarhea

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Archon said:
It is amazing, the intellectual and moral capacity of our marines... if only they are given the true support that they need. They were and are good people of a very high caliber. At times the indoctrination gets the better of them. That's all I will say.
The indocrination and training are very important, and I cannot question that. Orders must be followed to the letter, or discipline breaks down. After all, how can we have a standing military if the men are quesitoning what they are ordered to do? Their job is to fight, and nothing must restrict their ability to do their job. They are the solid brick wall which lies between the American way of life and ownage by another nation. In the end, all a marine, or any other member of the Armed Services, can hope for is that the top of the chain of command (the Commander-in Chief) makes moral choices, based on truth and reality, which will justify their going out to possibly bleed and die in defense of America. However, they must do their job and follow orders under any and all circumstances, and their training and indoctrination provide them with that ability.
 
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Archon

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danarhea said:
The indocrination and training are very important, and I cannot question that. Orders must be followed to the letter, or discipline breaks down. After all, how can we have a standing military if the men are quesitoning what they are ordered to do? Their job is to fight, and nothing must restrict their ability to do their job. They are the solid brick wall which lies between the American way of life and ownage by another nation. In the end, all a marine, or any other member of the Armed Services, can hope for is that the top of the chain of command (the Commander-in Chief) makes moral choices, based on truth and reality, which will justify their going out to possibly bleed and die in defense of America. However, they must do their job and follow orders under any and all circumstances, and their training and indoctrination provide them with that ability.
Indeed.

This is exactly why, when such indoctrination is based on such a false pretenese, such a chickenhawk derelict as Bush (as I percieve him)... it is our troops that are NOT BEING SUPPORTED. That's just my take on the issue though.
 

danarhea

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Archon said:
Indeed.

This is exactly why, when such indoctrination is based on such a false pretenese, such a chickenhawk derelict as Bush (as I percieve him)... it is our troops that are NOT BEING SUPPORTED. That's just my take on the issue though.
Hmmmm. Interesting. We were debating against each other, but it looks like we agree 100%. Thats what I get for trying to talk over someone. Sorry about that. LOL.
 

danarhea

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danarhea said:
Hmmmm. Interesting. We were debating against each other, but it looks like we agree 100%. Thats what I get for trying to talk over someone. Sorry about that. LOL.
Oops, meant to post this in the OTHER thread we were discussing in. Getting senile in my old age. LOL.
 

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danarhea said:
Oops, meant to post this in the OTHER thread we were discussing in. Getting senile in my old age. LOL.
:lol: Don't go and tell me now that you like Bush unconditionally! I mean, I like a good bush.... but there are several variations and our CiC is not one that I particularly care for (or fore). :rofl
 

danarhea

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Archon said:
:lol: Don't go and tell me now that you like Bush unconditionally! I mean, I like a good bush.... but there are several variations and our CiC is not one that I particularly care for (or fore). :rofl
Hmmmmm. Never heard it called "shrub" before. :)
 

cnredd

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If you look closely, you can see Nancy Pelosi right behind him pulling on some strings when his mouth was moving...

This comment from the article tells me all I need to know...

"I like guys who've never been there who criticize us who've been there," Murtha said. "I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and sent people to war and then don't like to hear suggestions that what may need to be done."

Either Cheney DIDN'T listen three years ago when Murtha voted for the war and Murtha kept his mouth shut...or Murtha DID have something to say three years ago when he voted for the war and Cheney's WAS listening then...but not now...Maybe Cheney listened to him, then listened to other miltary people and drew his own conclusions...That's how people do things, ya know...

That's either whining because Cheney disagrees with him NOW because he's listening to others...or somebody's telling him what to say in order to pose a bigger front...

Wonder how Murtha would feel if the DNC or the Democratic House leaders cut him off from campaign or district funding...
 

Simon W. Moon

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cnredd said:
If you look closely ... or district funding...
Perhaps he just changed his mind. Maybe he bought the theory and the rationale but then grew discouraged at the slipshod implementation.
 

Stu Ghatze

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danarhea said:
This charge by Scott McClellan is in itself hilarious. Murtha may be a Democrat, but is the biggest hawk in the party, and has supported Bush completely since the war started. Today, Murtha did a 180 and told Americans that we must leave Iraq within 6 months. Until today, he was one of the Bush administration's best friends. Today, according to the White House, he is associated with Michael Moore. Anybody buying this load of garbage?

BTW - Murtha is a retired US Marine Colonel with a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts. How many of his detractors have have this kind of resume? What this shows is that our leaders are intent on carrying out this war to the last drop of other peoples' blood.

Article is here.






SO WHAT IF Murtha was a former hawkish marine colonel?? How about the rest of our FORMER citizens that were once generals, colonels, majors, captains, & lietenants, ..right down to the enlisted common soldier who think the democrats WRONG on the issue of pulling out of Iraq?

Once again, ...the liberals in the media presenting things to "appear" as though their belief system commands the majority consensus!

As usual, ..media deciet & misrepresenting of facts, & "THEIR" own liberal belief system by editorializing their bullcrap & calling it news!
 

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Re: Murtha calls for withdrawal

Paladin said:
Murtha AP



I especially like the part I highlighted. I don't think much of Cheney because he "had better things to do" rather than serve in Vietnam.
ted




So did Bill Clinton, ..but breaking bread with soviet representatives, & learning all about soviet "good will" when a young college student in his grooming of socialistic causes usually does escape the memory of most democrats when its convenient !;)

Yea...Billy enjoyed, & appreciated his deferrment as much as CHeney, ..or anybody else did.
 
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Re: Murtha calls for withdrawal

There is already a thread on this.
 

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Re: Murtha calls for withdrawal

"We were not strong enough to drive out a half-million American troops, but that wasn't our aim. Our intention was to break the will of the American government to continue the war."

--North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap, in a 1990 interview with historian Stanley Karnow.

There are many lessons of the Vietnam War, but two of the biggest are these: Don't fight wars you don't intend to win, and while American troops can't be defeated, American politicians can be. Like General Giap, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his fellow terrorists understand the second lesson very well, and so his strategy has always been not to capture Baghdad but to inflict casualties in a way that breaks the will of American elites. He'll only be encouraged by this week's show of Beltway duck and cover.

Source here.
 

danarhea

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Stu Ghatze said:
SO WHAT IF Murtha was a former hawkish marine colonel?? How about the rest of our FORMER citizens that were once generals, colonels, majors, captains, & lietenants, ..right down to the enlisted common soldier who think the democrats WRONG on the issue of pulling out of Iraq?

Once again, ...the liberals in the media presenting things to "appear" as though their belief system commands the majority consensus!

As usual, ..media deciet & misrepresenting of facts, & "THEIR" own liberal belief system by editorializing their bullcrap & calling it news!
Hey Stu - LMAO. You still using that old "Those against the war are Liberals" rant? You ought to know that dog dont hunt anymore. But lets see what you are really saying.

1) On many posts, you write that Liberals are in the minority in America (Actually I agree with you on this one).

2) Then you turn around and tell everyone that whoever against the war is a Liberal.

3) All the polls are saying that the majority of Americans want us out of Iraq.

So tell me Stu - If the majority Americans are against the war in Iraq, as all the polls indicate, are most Americans Liberal now, instead of the minority you keep saying they are? Your usual rants on this topic dont have any kind of logic to them. Why? Because you keep contradicting yourself.
 

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danarhea said:
This charge by Scott McClellan is in itself hilarious. Murtha may be a Democrat, but is the biggest hawk in the party, and has supported Bush completely since the war started. Today, Murtha did a 180 and told Americans that we must leave Iraq within 6 months. Until today, he was one of the Bush administration's best friends. Today, according to the White House, he is associated with Michael Moore. Anybody buying this load of garbage?

BTW - Murtha is a retired US Marine Colonel with a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts. How many of his detractors have have this kind of resume? What this shows is that our leaders are intent on carrying out this war to the last drop of other peoples' blood.

Article is here.

It never fails. I look forward to the routine everyday bashings that come with every new thread from you that serve no real purpose. :roll:

"Diarrhea" was definately the right word.
 
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GySgt said:
It never fails. I look forward to the routine everyday bashings that come with every new thread from you that serve no real purpose. :roll:

"Diarrhea" was definately the right word.
This is what Dan does, Sarg. Five or six Bush bashing threads each day. Political jealousy is an ugly thing.
 

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KCConservative said:
This is what Dan does, Sarg. Five or six Bush bashing threads each day. Political jealousy is an ugly thing.
Since being drubbed at the voting booths since the mid Clinton years, Democrats have been on a crusade to destroy the credibility of anyone around them. Instead of showing the country where they can do better, they sem content to merely bash the other. The one's that cling to their political party and desperately lash out at other parties are the truly pathetic of this country.
 

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An Iraqi View of Murtha's Statement

Mohammed, blogging at 'Iraq the Model' has become rather well known for his realistic 'on-the-ground' views from Iraq. Here are a couple of excerpts from his column today...

"It’s becoming obvious now that most of the regional powers including Arab countries as well as many former Ba’ath leaders began to realize that defeating America and pro-democracy Iraqis is not a reasonable objective anymore and that’s why they are making steps to join and/or support the political process. This came in the form of lowering the ceiling of their demands from an immediate withdrawal of coalition forces to setting a timetable for the process and this is what we’re hearing from the hardcore Sunni parties and people who speak for the Iraqi militant groups and in the Arab League’s attempts to host a reconciliation meeting.
...
Maybe the most significant recent statement in this regard is the one made by Egypt’s foreign minister when he said that US forces presence in Iraq is necessary to “stabilize the country” and warned that a civil war could erupt if these troops leave now.
...
It is really strange when a US representative says something like this a few weeks after the elected Iraqi government demanded from the UN to extend the mission of coalition forces for another year; apparently my government (and I) do not think that US military presence is harmful for us and the Arab League also thinks that an immediate withdrawal would be disastrous for Iraq and the region.
...
However, I agree with Mr. Murtha that some people in Iraq would benefit from an immediate withdrawal but that would be al-Qaeda and there are also countries in the region that would benefit from that too but these would be Syria and Iran!"


IragtheModel

Interesting perspective.
 

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danarhea said:
Hey Stu - LMAO. You still using that old "Those against the war are Liberals" rant? You ought to know that dog dont hunt anymore. But lets see what you are really saying.

1) On many posts, you write that Liberals are in the minority in America (Actually I agree with you on this one).

2) Then you turn around and tell everyone that whoever against the war is a Liberal.

3) All the polls are saying that the majority of Americans want us out of Iraq.

So tell me Stu - If the majority Americans are against the war in Iraq, as all the polls indicate, are most Americans Liberal now, instead of the minority you keep saying they are? Your usual rants on this topic dont have any kind of logic to them. Why? Because you keep contradicting yourself.




The majority do not give a crap about the media polls, ..nor do they live their life around them!

It is the medias disingenuine creation of the polls, & HOW they manipulate them that gives them the desired result that they want from them, ..& their cousins, ..the liberal democrats!

They think this is the shortest route to the whitehouse in 08', ..& the destruction of Bush in the near future. It is all that they really seek, ..& the reason for their so called honest polls which are nothing BUT a joke!

Its NOT the people who are screaming about the war in Iraq, ..its the phoney MEDIA & senate DEMOCRATS that is creating the controversy by PRETENDING to suggest that the majority wants us out of Iraq!

It is to laugh, really ..just as the phoney Kerry exit voting polls were too. Since the liberals & democrats refuse to disbelieve that poll, ..that is why they prefer to believe that Bush "must" have fixed the election too.

It is ALWAYS worth repeating the obvious which is, & has been for decades: The liberal media, & the DEMOCRATIC PARTY LOVE TO "CREATE" their OWN ALTERNATE MEDIA, & THEIR OWN ALTERNATE NEWS, because they are living in THEIR own imaginative "reality"!

Who in the hell do YOU think create, & INVENT all the so called news controversies except the self righteous, holier than thou liberals, & the democratic party?

Generally...it is all the suckers OF the MEDIA & THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WHO BELIEVE THEM,(polls) ..& the idiots who actually believe that the liberals & democratic party are looking out for Americas best interests.

Not so.....their longterm goal is to, & has been to "institutionalize" liberalism into EVERY fabric of society & even into the family, & if they cannot accomplish it "illegally" through court ordered judicial activism as the liberals did for decades, ..& IF they cannot do it through elections, ..they use the media, & THEIR phoney polls, ..& the phoney pulpits in the senate exactly in the way that Democrats have ALWAYS done the last 35+ years when they realized that they were not being successful because they were NOT, & CANNOT EVER HOPE TO APPEAL to the majority VOTER by their bankrupt ideology base!

Sorry, ..but it is a fact, ..& well documented! I know, ..sometimes the truth really does suck, ..but so does the modern liberal democratic party!:2wave:

I'm telling you right now, ..in spite of Bush not being found in favor with many of his republicans supporters, ...The democratic party IS GOING TO LOSE AGAIN IN in 08", & THAT is going to be BUsh's vindication for all these phoney charges, & baseless accusations against him, & his administration!

Better yet........You can take that to the bank. Now the only question is: Will the stupid disingenuine democrats STILL continue to accuse the republicans of FIXING elections when the dems lose again in 08'??

Of course they WILL, ..cause' they have nothing else to run on except to defame, insult, find fault, & disparage because nobody except liberals, & their democratic party sympathizers expect anything else BUT that, & continues to bring us, ..well "nothing else", from the modern democratic party because IT IS their mantra!
 
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Archon said:
This is exactly why, when such indoctrination is based on such a false pretenese,
There's that claim again. Are we ever going to see one of you Bush haters prove this?
 

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Re: An Iraqi View of Murtha's Statement

Somebody needs to ask him how long US troops would have to remain to avert a civil war upon withdrawal. When you find out the answer to that, you'll learn the wisdom in getting out now.

There is no sense of nationalism in that country or allegiance either natural or forced towards any central governing authority other than an Islamic regime. Any army or security forces we develop will fall apart as soon as we leave. Individuals will opt for their personal loyalties over loyalty to a weak central government. This is where having a Saddam in power kept the country stable. He was a strong authoritarian dictator. The army was loyal to him and kept the civilian population and the Mullahs in check.

Murtha is dead right. Let's get the *&%! out now!

TwoPops
 

aps

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Re: An Iraqi View of Murtha's Statement

Murtha is a combat Vietnam veteran. Somehow I think he may have a better understanding of what our troops need than some Iraqi, who I doubt has engaged in war before. Even if he did, why would the Iraqis want us to leave? Their soldiers aren't making the effort to learn how to defend their own country, so why not have the US troops do it at OUR expense.
 
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