- Apr 18, 2014
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- Political Leaning
- Libertarian - Right
irrelevant. The specific charge changes often from what the cops originally charge.
For the cops, it’s all the same. An innocent 15 year old girl victimized by her father.
Or, it seems in this case…target practice
You ASSUME an innocent 15 year old girl victimized by her father.
HESPERIA, Calif. (KABC) -- A man who was accused of killing his estranged wife in Fontana and abducting their 15-year-old daughter had been living with the teenager out of his pickup truck and hotels for weeks before the violence, authorities said Wednesday.
A man who was accused of killing his estranged wife in Fontana and abducting their 15-year-old daughter had been living with the teenager out of his pickup truck and hotels for weeks.abc7.com
Yep. Based on my interpretation (imagine me as a juror), i understand an abduction can occur without kidnapping. A kidnapping cannot occur without an abduction. Logically, to obtain a kidnapping conviction as opposed to an abduction conviction, prosecution must raise the bar.TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LAWS.
Yep. Based on my interpretation (imagine me as a juror), i understand an abduction can occur without kidnapping. A kidnapping cannot occur without an abduction. Logically, to obtain a kidnapping conviction as opposed to an abduction conviction, prosecution must raise the bar.
This is why we need to remove immunity.
Heads are going to roll over this one.
Is a sterile way of saying that they shot her full of holes as she fled from the car. They were specifically chasing the car because Graziano had murdered his wife and abducted his daughter.
Examples of Hairsplitting:
1. suggest v. encourage
2. abduct v. kidnap.
If you consider hairsplitting reasonable in this kind of forum, you win (concession made with an eye roll).
Agreed, much like ‘to suggest’ =/= ‘to encourage’.An assault can occur without a murder. A murder cannot without an assault. Logically, to obtain a murder conviction as opposed to an assault conviction, prosecution must raise the bar.
That doesn't make Assault = Murder. Nor is abduction = kidnapping.
Do you have an active law license in California? Do you currently practice criminal law in California?It is not "hairsplitting" when there is an actual difference.
Kidnapping generally uses force or the threat of force. Abduction generally does not use force, but getting the victim to comply without any force at all. Like a neighbor convincing a kid that they were sent to pick them up for a parent, or a molester convincing that the 15 year old girl is really in love with him so leaves with him voluntarily.
This is not "hairsplitting" at all, and all that is required in the state of California (the state this happened in, in case you missed it) to put out an "AMBER Alert" is to simply have the child be with somebody that does not have primary custody of them. Like a non-custodial parent, or a 42 year old guy from Nebraska that convinced her to run off with him.
And your first example is even more funny. As that is a huge difference that can get a case thrown out of court. An undercover police officer "Encouraging" an individual to do a crime quite often results in a successful prosecution. But "suggesting" that they do a crime generally falls under the definition of "entrapment".
Good thing you are not a lawyer, because the differences between all of these is rather huge.
Other questions remain. In a Civil Case, who can claim status to sue for wrongful death?
Do you have an active law license in California? Do you currently practice criminal law in California?
I sure hope you do not practice law in the United States!
Many people think that the terms “kidnapping” and “child abduction” are interchangeable. However, California law differentiates these two offenses and considers them two different crimes. Whether law enforcement has arrested you for child abduction or kidnapping, it’s essential that you reach out to a skilled and experienced Los Angeles County criminal defense lawyer right away to ensure your rights remain protected at every stage of the criminal justice process.
How California Defines Child AbductionIn California, kidnapping offenses are considered to be far more serious than child abduction. California Penal Code Section 278 states, “Every person, not having a right to custody, who maliciously takes, entices away, keeps, withholds, or conceals any child with the intent to detain or conceal that child from a lawful custodian” may be charged with child abduction. Child abduction is usually prosecuted as a felony offense, with penalties ranging from two, three, or four years in prison, up to $10,000 in fines, or both. It can be prosecuted as a misdemeanor, with a punishment of up to a year in jail. Even a parent who is not the child’s legal guardian can face child abduction charges, as long as prosecutors can show that the defendant intended to detain or conceal the child from their legal guardian.
Kidnapping Offenses Under California LawThe legal definition of kidnapping in California is as follows: “Every person who forcibly, or by any other means of instilling fear, steals or takes, or holds, detains, or arrests any person in this state, and carries the person into another country, state, or county, or into another part of the same county, is guilty of kidnapping” (California Penal Code Section 207). You may also be charged with kidnapping if you hired someone else to kidnap the victim or if you committed an act of human trafficking. If convicted of simple kidnapping, you could face up to eight years in state prison, up to $10,00 in fines, or both. Aggravated kidnapping carries even harsher penalties; in some circumstances, you could face life imprisonment for committing this offense.
Why?Whomever fired on the girl needs to be charged.
She was most definitely involved in the firefight. Even if you don’t have a gun you’re involved if you’re in a vehicle with someone who does and is shootingThen they started mushmouthing about whether or not she was involved in the firefight.
Yes, it is really tragic that Graziano didn’t care about the safety of his daughter. This is not something that the police can correct in a situation where he is involved.There was only one firearm present, and we know Graziano was firing it.
I own a real estate company in the Tampa Bay Area, Florida. Litigation, lawsuits, trials, negotiations and settlements come with the territory. I work with attorneys on the regular.Quite literally, almost anybody.
What, you think that somebody actually needs to have a vested interest in a case to sue? That is the very basis for an Amicus Curiae ("Friend of the Court") case.
Maybe you missed my exchanges with @Fledermaus . I agreed with him.Wow, that is your angle?
Well, thankfully Fledermaus actually stated the relevant California Penal Code relating to both Kidnapping and Abduction.
Whether law enforcement has arrested you for child abduction or kidnapping, it’s essential that you reach out to a skilled and experienced Los Angeles County criminal defense lawyer right away to ensure your rights remain protected at every stage of the criminal justice process.wegmanlevin.com
But please, how about you provide a reference that states that in the California there is no difference between the two?
And he appears to be guilty of both, yes.Yes. It is.
California Penal Code 278 PC defines child abduction as a situation where a person, with no right of custody, takes a child away and keeps the child from the parents or legal guardians. The offense can be charged as a misdemeanor or a felony and is punishable by up to four years in jail or prison.
Kidnapping under §207(a) is punishable by a term of up to eight years in a state prison, a fine of up to $10,000, or both imprisonment and a fine. In addition, since Kidnapping is considered a “serious felony,” conviction is counted as a “strike” on your criminal record.
In sum, to be guilty of Kidnapping under CPC §207(a), the prosecution must prove that:
- You took or held someone through force or fear; AND,
- You moved, or made the person move, a substantial distance; AND,
- The other person didn't consent; AND,
- You didn't actually believe the person consented.
Two very different crimes.