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Mulvaney: Trump would build "steel fence" as concession to Democrats

bubbabgone said:
Like I said ...
As long as it works as well as concrete would have what's the problem?
They could call it a fence and Trump can call it a wall.
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B/c it would be one big lie transferring money from the American people to a non-existent project thought up by a con-man. Did I really have to spell that out for you??? I thought libertarian minded people were supposed to be suspicious of the government, not asking what's the problem with socialism?
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
I perfectly understand that Trump is selling you a bunch of BS. That's what he does.
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It will make their fragile male egos FEEL better, isn't that enough? Leave the conservacucks alone! Librul bully!
 
enderpotato00 said:
No, I mean what do you propose that would slow down illegal immigration?
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Seize Trump Tower and Trump Golf Clubs for a start. They employ more illegal immigrants than when someone crosses the border.
 
enderpotato00 said:
It seems you don't understand why some of us want a wall. It won't stop illegal immigration, but it might slow it down.
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And even if it doesn't you'll FEEL better right? Makes it all worth it huh?

Now, how do we get rid of the brown people who are citizens, that's the real problem isn't it? (No, it doesn'thave to be racist; fear of demographics and democratic voters, but your side is RIFE with it, racist or not)
 
markjs said:
And even if it doesn't you'll FEEL better right? Makes it all worth it huh?

Now, how do we get rid of the brown people who are citizens, that's the real problem isn't it? (No, it doesn'thave to be racist; fear of demographics and democratic voters, but your side is RIFE with it, racist or not)
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Half of what you said is what Democrats are now. Thank you for proving my point.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
According to Kelly Trump already gave up on the concrete wall. Now we have "Build the Cheap Russian Steel Fence!!!" Rolls right off the tongue doesn't it.



Mulvaney: Trump would build "steel fence" as concession to Democrats


Are you in favor Trumpsters??????
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Doesn't matter if "Trumpsters" are in favor. You should be asking if "Trump haters" are in favor.

You know...Mulvaney has to try, but I think everyone knows that the Trump haters won't make any deals. They will only oppose anything Trump asks of them. Heck, just wait till we see the mental and verbal gymnastics that bunch comes up with when they are forced to consider the USMCA. You KNOW they are going to oppose it simply because it's something Trump wants.

I think Trump should just go ahead and build the thing any way he can. Take the money from the executive branch. Put the military to work. Hell, declare a national emergency. Just do it.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
B/c it would be one big lie transferring money from the American people to a non-existent project thought up by a con-man. Did I really have to spell that out for you??? I thought libertarian minded people were supposed to be suspicious of the government, not asking what's the problem with socialism?
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Oh. I guess you did have to spell it out. I didn't know your position was that even if money was appropriated for a barrier it wouldn't get built.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
According to Kelly Trump already gave up on the concrete wall. Now we have "Build the Cheap Russian Steel Fence!!!" Rolls right off the tongue doesn't it.

Mulvaney: Trump would build "steel fence" as concession to Democrats

Are you in favor Trumpsters??????
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Red:
I'm not among the solicited population of the DP membership; however, I do not find that US taxpayers funding a wall or "steel fence" on the southern border (or northern one, for that matter) is compromise of any sort. To accept such a notion, absent a rigorously developed, credible and methodologically sound positive "business case," is to disregard the substance of the matter under consideration: installing a physical barrier on the border.

Trump has held office for nearly two years; there's simply no excuse, particularly given his background with building things, for his (his Administration's) not having proffered a detailed construction plan and the positive "business case" showing the economic sagacity of his border barrier initiative. I mean, really, recognizing the need to develop such a case and then doing so is well within the skill set of a handful of any several baccalaureate degree seekers -- accounting, business/operations management, finance, economics, geology, engineering, physics, or architecture candidates, to name a few -- yet Trump and his circus of top advisors appear to have all but forsworn commencing such an analysis, or even the mere beginnings of such.

To wit, as noted in a July 2018 GAO study, "CBP’s fiscal year 2018 appropriation provided funding for barrier planning and design," yet CBP/DHS still hasn't published anything remotely resembling an implementation plan for building Trump's wall, to say nothing of having performed a comprehensive cost-benefit analysis revealing a net-positive economic outcome resulting from building a southern border barrier. Indeed, the GAO noted:

DHS plans to spend billions of dollars developing and deploying new barriers along the southwest border. However, by proceeding without key information on cost, acquisition baselines, and the contributions of previous barrier and technology deployments, DHS faces an increased risk that the Border Wall System Program will cost more than projected, take longer than planned, or not fully perform as expected. Without assessing costs when prioritizing locations for future barriers, CBP does not have complete information to determine whether it is using its limited resources in the most cost-effective manner and does not have important cost information that would help it develop future budget requests. Without documenting plans to require CBP to follow the DHS acquisition process for the San Diego barrier segment, DHS may not establish cost, schedule, and performance goals by which it can measure the program’s progress. In addition, Border Patrol should continue to implement our prior recommendations to assess the contributions of existing barriers and technologies deployed along the southwest border and consider this information when making future border security investments.
-- CBP Is Evaluating Designs and Locations for Border Barriers but Is Proceeding Without Key Information​

Seriously?!?! Two years after taking office, and Trump/DHS/CBP/CEA haven't even determined the cost structure for such a project!


Why must there be a solid case economic case for installing the wall?

Why have they so demurred?
 
Xelor said:
Red:
I'm not among the solicited population of the DP membership; however, I do not find that US taxpayers funding a wall or "steel fence" on the southern border (or northern one, for that matter) is compromise of any sort. To accept such a notion, absent a rigorously developed, credible and methodologically sound positive "business case," is to disregard the substance of the matter under consideration: installing a physical barrier on the border.

Trump has held office for nearly two years; there's simply no excuse, particularly given his background with building things, for his (his Administration's) not having proffered a detailed construction plan and the positive "business case" showing the economic sagacity of his border barrier initiative. I mean, really, recognizing the need to develop such a case and then doing so is well within the skill set of a handful of any several baccalaureate degree seekers -- accounting, business/operations management, finance, economics, geology, engineering, physics, or architecture candidates, to name a few -- yet Trump and his circus of top advisors appear to have all but forsworn commencing such an analysis, or even the mere beginnings of such.
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Though the practical arguments against this sea to shining sea physical barrier are compelling on their own merits, mainly that the justifications are thin and the descriptions of what and how long are moving targets dancing all over the map, I also argue that a sea to shining sea barrier across the Southern Border is quintessentially unAmerican as well. Border residents know this even better than the rest of Americans.

The optics of a sea to shining sea barrier even if of beaded curtain are terrible. The way we have handled commerce across the border is a visible sign of our power as a country, our strength as a people and our commitment to freedom. I am not willing to give those up for a Trumpian notion, a manifestation that exists only in his head and nowhere else.
 
Fletch said:
Nobody is asking for that.
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Wrong...Trump was back to his sea to shining sea rhetoric again on Friday. He does not want people to be able to simply meander along the border and then make a "left hand turn" (ie...he wants a sea to shining sea physical barrier) which is what he claimed in his campaign rhetoric as well.

Since the Friday comments were entirely within the context of this physical barrier, wall, WHATEVER discussion, that is the only way his comments could be taken especially since they dovetail with his campaign rhetoric. Lets face it, this is all about campaign rhetoric anyway.
 
All different styles of walls is whats best. Different types to fit different geography. No Trump supporter thought we were building the great wall china over here that was all tongue in cheek. Steel slates with concrete top works best but for only a handful of sections of the border. Other places will require just steel slats with pointy tops and other places just a tall chain link fence. But getting a barrier in place that slows the climbers down and more access roads and more places to employ technology to help alert the border agents to make the arrests is how this works.
 
jnug said:
Though the practical arguments against this sea to shining sea physical barrier are compelling on their own merits
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Shades of Will Hurd...

This fallacy that a wall equals border security. I have more border than any other member of Congress, 820 miles of the border. I spent a decade as an undercover officer in the CIA chasing bad guys.


We are monitoring or keeping track of the wrong metric. It is not how many miles of wall that is going to keep us safe. Are we keeping bad guys and are we keeping drugs out of our country? The best way to do that is with technology and manpower. Building a wall from sea to shining sea is the most expensive and least effective way to keep the border secure.
-- Rep. Will Hurd, "Congressman Will Hurd on Syria, Russia, immigration," Dec. 20, 2018

True border security demands a flexible, defense-in-depth strategy that includes a mix of personnel, technology and changing tactics, all of which come at a lower price tag than a border wall.
-- Rep. Will Hurd, "GOP congressman: A wall is the least effective way to secure the border"

Hurd adds perspective noting: "the entire national intelligence program’s (the CIA, National Security Agency, etc.) annual budget is [about] $53 billion."​

U.S. Rep. Will Hurd, a Republican from San Antonio, spent a decade as an undercover officer for the CIA chasing, in his words, bad guys.


You may find this analysis from MIT Technology Review interesting:
 
jdog21 said:
All different styles of walls is whats best. Different types to fit different geography. No Trump supporter thought we were building the great wall china over here that was all tongue in cheek. Steel slates with concrete top works best but for only a handful of sections of the border. Other places will require just steel slats with pointy tops and other places just a tall chain link fence. But getting a barrier in place that slows the climbers down and more access roads and more places to employ technology to help alert the border agents to make the arrests is how this works.
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Then the Administration should put that in a proposal and make it to Congress. At this point nobody knows what is bouncing around inside that gum ball machine mind of Donald's and nobody cares what "No trump supporter thought". This is not an issue of what a trump supporter thinks.

We have heard plenty about what trump supporters thought was real or unreal from trump during his campaign. None of that matters within the context of this discussion. What a trump supporter "thought" is for them to live with.
 
JustHanging said:
Pssst. veritas1. Check this out...

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He's a lousy actor.

In any case, those illegal aliens will need a LOOONG ladder.

79SWRV43.jpg

Or, to show it another way...the top platform.

maxresdefault.jpg
 
Xelor said:
Shades of Will Hurd...

This fallacy that a wall equals border security. I have more border than any other member of Congress, 820 miles of the border. I spent a decade as an undercover officer in the CIA chasing bad guys.


We are monitoring or keeping track of the wrong metric. It is not how many miles of wall that is going to keep us safe. Are we keeping bad guys and are we keeping drugs out of our country? The best way to do that is with technology and manpower. Building a wall from sea to shining sea is the most expensive and least effective way to keep the border secure.
-- Rep. Will Hurd, "Congressman Will Hurd on Syria, Russia, immigration," Dec. 20, 2018

True border security demands a flexible, defense-in-depth strategy that includes a mix of personnel, technology and changing tactics, all of which come at a lower price tag than a border wall.
-- Rep. Will Hurd, "GOP congressman: A wall is the least effective way to secure the border"

Hurd adds perspective noting: "the entire national intelligence program’s (the CIA, National Security Agency, etc.) annual budget is [about] $53 billion."​

U.S. Rep. Will Hurd, a Republican from San Antonio, spent a decade as an undercover officer for the CIA chasing, in his words, bad guys.


You may find this analysis from MIT Technology Review interesting:
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Cool.

Then Rep. Hurd should have a talk with Nancy and Chuck. Have Nancy and Chuck propose this solution.

So far, those two haven't proposed anything except the word "No".
 
bubbabgone said:
Trump's been saying steel slats would be okay with him because the Border Patrol prefers something you can see through.
As long as it works as well as concrete would have what's the problem?
Sounds like the ball is in Chancy's court.
They could call it a fence and Trump can call it a wall.
Win Win.
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You see, it's not a win if Trump gets his way.
 
Mycroft said:
Cool.

Then Rep. Hurd should have a talk with Nancy and Chuck. Have Nancy and Chuck propose this solution.

So far, those two haven't proposed anything except the word "No".
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That's what one does when dealing with toddlers in chief....:roll:
 
Fletch said:
Nobody is asking for that.
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So what exactly are "they" asking for?

I've pointed out before, when people approach others to ask for funding for a project, they must have a proposal, not just an idea.

Trump's wall is not even an idea because he is never clear if he wants a concrete wall, or steel slats, or chain-link fence, or...so not only is there no clear proposal, there is nothing more than the word "wall".
 
Mycroft said:
He's a lousy actor.

In any case, those illegal aliens will need a LOOONG ladder.

View attachment 67247421

Or, to show it another way...the top platform.

View attachment 67247423
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Oh but, DOH!

Golden-spade_1024x1024.jpg


Doh! Technology, who knew? Who can keep up?:2rofll:
 
jnug said:
Then the Administration should put that in a proposal and make it to Congress. At this point nobody knows what is bouncing around inside that gum ball machine mind of Donald's and nobody cares what "No trump supporter thought". This is not an issue of what a trump supporter thinks.

We have heard plenty about what trump supporters thought was real or unreal from trump during his campaign. None of that matters within the context of this discussion. What a trump supporter "thought" is for them to live with.
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Just look at the pretext of this thread oh no looks like theyre abandoning a concrete wall
 
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