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Mueller got some answers, but he's not done with Trump

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Bullseye said:
Except only one of those is reality, the other is a mass hysteria myth.
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Explain to me how having a foreign power interfering with one of our Presidential elections is 'hysteria myth.':shock:
 
Donc said:
Explain to me how having a foreign power interfering with one of our Presidential elections is 'hysteria myth.':shock:
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The myth is that Trump was involved in it.
 
MSgt said:
But Clinton's impeachment didn't matter because in the end, the impeachment process was reduced to a simple partisan tool over a technicality. This is why Democrats easily forgave him.

- Impeachment was bipartisan with Andrew Johnson, who deserved it. (Democrats forgave him, but reduced Johnson's effectiveness).

- Impeachment was going to be bipartisan when it came to Nixon, who deserved it. (Republicans would not have forgiven him, so he resigned).

If they impeach Trump, he has to not only deserve it but, there has to be the kind of evidence of a crime or an absolute betrayal in order to pull Republicans into a discussion of what really matters - the country or Trump. Because as it stands right now, using impeachment as a partisan tool will only result in Senate forgiveness; and only an impeachment over clear-cut evidence of a clearly defined crime will satisfy some Republicans when it comes to placing the country above the Party.
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But what you're not taking into account is the survival instinct of the GOP. It's slow, they are reluctantly distancing themselves, but it's happeneing. They really loved the idea of TRump lowering the bar. They felt like the hate and anti brown people sentiment, could finally be an open part of the platform and it excited them, many jumped on the bandwagon. The mid-terms threw a bit of blue wave on them and they are starting to see how he's political poison. Give it a year of Democratic house, the GOP will turn on him. He's a one trick pony, and now, without radically changing that idiot style that made them love him, he can't grow any support, has his 30% base with no upside. Yeah, the GOP is slow in waking, but they won't back him much longer.

The ****ty part is they will turn on him, not because of distaste for him and his boorishness or ideas, they will turn on him, only because it will cost them votes, has nothing to do with any ethical or personal considerations, they're fine with his behavior largely. They're gonna be bummed when they have to be more discrete with their racism and disdain for non whites.
 
chuckiechan said:
I want to know how Mueller can run such a big operation and tiptoe around Clinton crimes as if they never existed.
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Probably because the Clinton crimes pale in comparison to what Cheeto Benito has done. Let's get the murderers off the street before we worry about jay walkers.
 
markjs said:
But what you're not taking into account is the survival instinct of the GOP. It's slow, they are reluctantly distancing themselves, but it's happeneing. They really loved the idea of TRump lowering the bar. They felt like the hate and anti brown people sentiment, could finally be an open part of the platform and it excited them, many jumped on the bandwagon. The mid-terms threw a bit of blue wave on them and they are starting to see how he's political poison. Give it a year of Democratic house, the GOP will turn on him. He's a one trick pony, and now, without radically changing that idiot style that made them love him, he can't grow any support, has his 30% base with no upside. Yeah, the GOP is slow in waking, but they won't back him much longer.

The ****ty part is they will turn on him, not because of distaste for him and his boorishness or ideas, they will turn on him, only because it will cost them votes, has nothing to do with any ethical or personal considerations, they're fine with his behavior largely. They're gonna be bummed when they have to be more discrete with their racism and disdain for non whites.
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Would you be surprised if Trump is re-elected?
 
Donc said:
You're on a Debate Site called Debate Politics show me where CNN/MSNC has been wrong on their reporting... on"Russia, Russia, Russia, impeachment, impeachment, impeachment, Obstruction of Justice, Obstruction of Justice, Obstruction of Justice.":2wave:
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If you need more let me know.

https://dailycaller.com/2018/08/31/cnn-list-bungled-reporting-fake-news/

https://canadafreepress.com/article/cnn-false-reporting-is-the-new-normal

https://lawandcrime.com/uncategoriz...ruling-after-accusing-cnn-of-false-reporting/

https://money.cnn.com/2017/06/26/media/cnn-announcement-retracted-article/index.html

https://www.newsmax.com/Headline/CNN-False-Report-Trump/2016/09/20/id/749138/
 
DDD said:
I do not think Trump is a dictator.
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I think he's certainly on his way, and his move with Whitaker brings him much closer to that goal than I think most people appreciate.

As to whether he will accomplish that end remains to be seen. We still have yet to see if our Democratic institutions end up overcoming him or are ultimately overcome. As I see it, we still have four steps to contend with before he's a dictator in no uncertain terms:

1. How Trump is able to deal with Mueller. If he's able to subject the Judicial branch and the DOJ to his will, he will formally put himself above the law.
2. How Trump is able to deal with Congressional oversight. Dictators in former democracies are always able to delegitimize the principle of equal branches to the point that the legislature is nothing more than a rubber stamp for the Executive, and oversight doesn't exist.
3. Whether the electoral system can be relied upon to be a voice of the people. This is a real problem, since the Electoral College is now in a position to guarantee minority rule, and gerrymandering and voter suppression laws have skewed elections in a large number of Republican states. All of this means that a majority vote is no longer a dominating factor in determining outcomes.
4. And of course, the last and final factor: the Executive stays on past his term limits. Now of course every party tends to act hysterically about this. Democrats were terrified that GWB might do it, Republicans were terrified that Obama would do it, and Democrats have taken up their old role and are shaking at the notion of Trump doing it. That said, none of the past Presidents have so thoroughly and quickly deconstructed Democratic norms and institutions as Trump has, and no past President has so thoroughly embraced authoritarians while condemning Democratic allies.
 
Born Free said:
If you need more let me know.

https://dailycaller.com/2018/08/31/cnn-list-bungled-reporting-fake-news/

https://canadafreepress.com/article/cnn-false-reporting-is-the-new-normal

https://lawandcrime.com/uncategoriz...ruling-after-accusing-cnn-of-false-reporting/

https://money.cnn.com/2017/06/26/media/cnn-announcement-retracted-article/index.html

https://www.newsmax.com/Headline/CNN-False-Report-Trump/2016/09/20/id/749138/
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We don't need your list of Guccifer 2.0 outlets. We’ll start with “Russia, Russia, Russia and work outward. Do you have doubts that September on 2015 FBI agent notified the DNC that Russian hackers had compromised at least one DNC, computers?:2wave:
 
MSgt said:
But Clinton's impeachment didn't matter because in the end, the impeachment process was reduced to a simple partisan tool over a technicality. This is why Democrats easily forgave him.

- Impeachment was bipartisan with Andrew Johnson, who deserved it. (Democrats forgave him, but reduced Johnson's effectiveness).

- Impeachment was going to be bipartisan when it came to Nixon, who deserved it. (Republicans would not have forgiven him, so he resigned).

If they impeach Trump, he has to not only deserve it but, there has to be the kind of evidence of a crime or an absolute betrayal in order to pull Republicans into a discussion of what really matters - the country or Trump. Because as it stands right now, using impeachment as a partisan tool will only result in Senate forgiveness; and only an impeachment over clear-cut evidence of a clearly defined crime will satisfy some Republicans when it comes to placing the country above the Party.
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Sorry liberals, but yes Republicans do require clear cut evidence of a crime, we know that gets in liberals way but it’s how this stuff works.


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Top Cat said:
View attachment 67244712
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I've seen this several times. Another example of creative counting. Note that it completely dismisses the 40 criminal convictions under the Whitewater investigation, including a half dozen pardons issued by Clinton for individuals investigated or convicted in the investigation.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
But he was MANDATED to investigate Russian collusion. And the ONLY evidence that has so far come to light is that associated with the fat lady and the DNC initiatives.
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MrShangles said:
He was mandated to investigate Russian collusion.
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No, he was mandated to understand relationships between Russia and members of the Trump campaign and, as any DoJ investigation, follow-up on any other crimes that may be discovered. That extends beyond simple collusion.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

The problem for Trump, however, is that HE CHOOSE to associate himself with a number of unsavory characters hence the investigation easily mushroomed chasing down the other crimes that were discovered. The further problem for Trump is that it put all of these lesser characters into position to turn state's evidence to protect themselves.

Apparently, there are greater crimes than have been already revealed OR the Special Counsel would not have cut so many plea deals. We are all looking forward to Mueller's next reveal.
 
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upsideguy said:
I'm not certain what you are trying to ask. I merely summarized what it in the Mueller charter, which I linked.
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What I am aiming at is a fair result.

If there is, and there certainly was no evidence initiating investigating team Trump, besides that created by the agencies involved [ostensibily investigating], then... if there IS evidence of collusory complicity on the other side... seems to me the American people would not want it any other way...the other side be equally investigated...

Or... are you actually positing that equal treatment under the law not sufficient?

Not, perhaps, applicable to an underclass known as conservatives, you say?
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
What I am aiming at is a fair result.

If there is, and there certainly was no evidence initiating investigating team Trump, besides that created by the agencies involved [ostensibily investigating], then... if there IS evidence of collusory complicity on the other side... seems to me the American people would not want it any other way...the other side be equally investigated...

Or... are you actually positing that equal treatment under the law not sufficient?

Not, perhaps, applicable to an underclass known as conservatives, you say?
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What I am aiming at is a fair result.
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What is your vision of a fair result?:2wave:
 
Donc said:
What is your vision of a fair result?:2wave:
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Easy.

That the searchlights of the last two years of minutely intense investigations, based on nothing but the wholly fabricated, now be turned in the direction where there is proven cause to look.

Your side.

No sacred cows spared, that cannot be investigated, as your side has pushed into and past attorney-client privilege, into spying, into lying about spying, into first family...

Now its time we find out the real deal with slenderman, fat lady, Brennan, Rice, Powers, Clapper, Steele, Simpson, Debbie W-S, Jarrett, Rhodes, Lynch, Holder et al... we already know Comey, McCabe, Strzok/Page, Ohrs, etc... just need be prosecuted.

Thats all. Fair and equal scrutiny.
 
upsideguy said:
No, he was mandated to understand relationships between Russia and members of the Trump campaign and, as any DoJ investigation, follow-up on any other crimes that may be discovered. That extends beyond simple collusion.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

The problem for Trump, however, is that HE CHOOSE to associate himself with a number of unsavory characters hence the investigation easily mushroomed chasing down the other crimes that were discovered. The further problem for Trump is that it put all of these lesser characters into position to turn state's evidence to protect themselves.

Apparently, there are greater crimes than have been already revealed OR the Special Counsel would not have cut so many plea deals. We are all looking forward to Mueller's next reveal.
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I see the word "investigate" a couple of times, I don't see "understand" at all.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Easy.

That the searchlights of the last two years of minutely intense investigations, based on nothing but the wholly fabricated, now be turned in the direction where there is proven cause to look.

Your side.

No sacred cows spared, that cannot be investigated, as your side has pushed into and past attorney-client privilege, into spying, into lying about spying, into first family...

Now its time we find out the real deal with slenderman, fat lady, Brennan, Rice, Powers, Clapper, Steele, Simpson, Debbie W-S, Jarrett, Rhodes, Lynch, Holder et al... we already know Comey, McCabe, Strzok/Page, Ohrs, etc... just need be prosecuted.

Thats all. Fair and equal scrutiny.
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slenderman, fat lady, Brennan, Rice, Powers, Clapper, Steele, Simpson, Debbie W-S, Jarrett, Rhodes, Lynch, Holder et al... we already know Comey, McCabe, Strzok/Page, Ohrs,
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SO…you think misdirection is in order with the above. :roll:

How do you explain guilty pleas from 32 people and three companies so far?:2wave:
 
Donc said:
Kinda looks like things are shaping to get this incompetent wanna be dictator out to resign or be impeached.
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I don't think you can impeach a special prosecutor, but I agree that most everyone at this point is tired of Sideshow Bob Mueller and can't wait until this "investigation" concludes.
 
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