MP critically injured

[gunner]

Cool beans.

Sometimes, just sometimes, British politicians act in a way that is very admirable.

 

[Andalublue]

Sometimes, just sometimes, British politicians act in a way that is very admirable.

Maybe, but I wonder if they would have made that gesture if Jo Cox's majority had been 600 rather than 6,000. I hope they would have, but I'm not so sure.

 

[gunner]

Maybe, but I wonder if they would have made that gesture if Jo Cox's majority had been 600 rather than 6,000. I hope they would have, but I'm not so sure.

I'm not really bothered. The gesture was made, and that's what counts. Looking for ulterior motives is pretty sad IMO.

 

[Andalublue]

I'm not really bothered. The gesture was made, and that's what counts. Looking for ulterior motives is pretty sad IMO.

It's not an ulterior motive, it's simply scepticism about the higher motivations of politicians. :shrug:

 

[Infinite Chaos]

It's not an ulterior motive, it's simply scepticism about the higher motivations of politicians. :shrug:

You could be cynical and suggest that other parties recognise there would be a huge sympathy vote but I really think the politicians have judged the public mood and reaction here quite accurately.

Parliament is not being recalled on Monday just because she had a 6000 majority.....

 

[manise]

One criminal act and they shut down one of the most important campaigns in Europe in a generation??!! This is what victim culture comes to folks, and it is pathetic. Letting evil doers dictate our actions, in this case directing them against ourselves, is as dumb as dumb gets.

You are applying US values to a situation in Great Britain. That is inappropriate and out of context.

A routine 90 shooting deaths every day must be corrosive to common decency in some across the pond. Here, it's a shocking but thankfully rare event.

Regretably, one American citizen's viewpoint on this thread has caused overgeneralization of Americans in reactions to political assassinations. This was not just some random killing in the street. The victim was neck deep in one of Britain's most divisive political campaigns in a generation, and likely lost her life for the effort. America has seen its share of political assassinations, and a few like Robert Kennedy's in 1968 caused the temporary suspension of all presidential campaigns. To suggest that "American values" would have caused an uninterrupted campaign following such a terrible political crime is to ignore American history and unfairly criticize the vast majority of decent, honorable, and caring citizens who would openly grieve in respectful ways to such a political assassination.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Regretably, one American citizen's viewpoint on this thread has caused overgeneralization of Americans in reactions to political assassinations. This was not just some random killing in the street. The victim was neck deep in one of Britain's most divisive political campaigns in a generation, and likely lost her life for the effort. America has seen its share of political assassinations, and a few like Robert Kennedy's in 1968 caused the temporary suspension of all presidential campaigns. To suggest that "American values" would have caused an uninterrupted campaign following such a terrible political crime is to ignore American history and unfairly criticize the vast majority of decent, honorable, and caring citizens who would openly grieve in respectful ways to such a political assassination.

I am not talking about political assassinations, for all I know this was a random act of crazy from a crazy person (Does anyone remember John Hinkley?). Those who are sane enough to know how to make the news and thus get famous know to pick their targets well, and maybe that happened here. When we have proof that this was something else get back to me.

I am arguing against victim culture and against stupidity. I made the exact same arguments in the "Alligator kills a kid" thread (see, I am not picking on our friends the Brits), with the result being that I was labeled as defective whos arguments can be ignored.

No, not in a civilized society that aims to keep civilization alive.

Seriously.

 

[manise]

I am not talking about political assassinations, for all I know this was a random act of crazy from a crazy person. Those who are sane enough to know how to make the news and thus get famous know to pick their targets well, and maybe that happened here. When we have proof that this was something else get back to me.

I am arguing against victim culture and against stupidity. I made the exact same arguments in the "Alligator kills a kid" thread, with the result being that I was label as defective whos arguments can be ignored.

No, not in a civilized society that aims to keep civilization alive.

Seriously.

Robert F. Kennedy's killer had political motives but was also a very disturbed individual, much the same as the assassin in Britain. Our nation's political business came to a standstill for a couple of days to honor his passing. If you are suggesting that a "victim culture" motivated those suspensions of political battle, then I must completely disagree with you. Thankfully, your point of view is the extreme minority on this thread and elsewhere.

As for the proof you demand, I cite the assasin's associations with neo nazi groups in Europe and elsewhere in the midst of the highly emotional Brexit campaign. When YOU get proof that mental illness or the like supercede the political nature of this crime, please get back to me. Most political assassins in history are nutcases, but their crimes strike at the heart of democracy and as such demand reactions and observances that go beyond an alligator killing.

 

[Manc Skipper]

"The Victim", whose name is Jo Cox, said in her maiden speech to Parliament;
"Our communities have been deeply enhanced by immigration, be it of Irish Catholics across the constituency or of Muslims from Gujarat in India or from Pakistan, principally from Kashmir," she said.

"While we celebrate our diversity, what surprises me time and time again as I travel around the constituency is that we are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us."

 

[Hawkeye10]

"The Victim", whose name is Jo Cox, said in her maiden speech to Parliament;
"Our communities have been deeply enhanced by immigration, be it of Irish Catholics across the constituency or of Muslims from Gujarat in India or from Pakistan, principally from Kashmir," she said.

"While we celebrate our diversity, what surprises me time and time again as I travel around the constituency is that we are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us."

It is looking more and more like objection to that point of view will be the #1 driver of the "EXIT" vote, just so that we are clear on that. Being a victim does not make one right, regardless of what the victim culture advocates tell you.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

It is looking more and more like objection to that point of view will be the #1 driver of the "NO" vote, just so that we are clear on that. Being a victim does not make one right, regardless of what the victim culture advocates tell you.

What is it that has your panties in a knot over this?

 

[Hawkeye10]

What is it that has your panties in a knot over this?

I am on a mission to save Western Civilization from victim culture

I like to argue

I want to practice arguing

I want to learn, so I open up arguments in the hopes of learning

I always tell the truth let's get that straight right now. My friend Greg and I used to argue for hours at a time during our HS years and one time we argued on and off for days about something. After he finally lost he said in all serioulsness that he did not believe in what he was arguing , that he was taking a position because it would be fun to argue it. I was funking pissed, I felt used like a cheap slut. I promised myself then and there that I would never do that.........but I am a patron saint of lost causes, I like to take some idea that almost no one else is promoting and see if I can make a go of it, against the best, which is why I am at DP.

Does that answer your question?

Another thing...... if I like you it is because I have decided that you are smart, fun and that you can communicate. If you are well traveled all the better, I am here to compare notes and learn. The chances that I do like you go down if you agree with me too often, cause that is BORING.

 

[Peter King]

We really need to start putting some thought into the utility of this victim culture that we have got going on, because in my opinion we cant afford the indulgence anymore.

This has absolutely nothing to do with victim cultures, this has to do with respect for their fellow MP, respect for the voters and respect from the voters that politicians send a message that it is not always business as usually, that is something a blustering buffoon like Trump or a populist like Geert Wilders/mrs. Le Pen and others like them would do (and actually do, just look at Trump patting himself on the back and immediately moving into political mode rather than just showing a bit of respect to the victims of Orlando, Hillary is not a lot better but at least she was not arrogant and self congratulating about it).

 

[Peter King]

A little upsetting of the mind is good for it every now and then.

And a little respect for the feelings and suffering from others every now and then is even better, much much much better in fact.

 

[Hawkeye10]

This has absolutely nothing to do with victim cultures, this has to do with respect for their fellow MP, respect for the voters and respect from the voters that politicians send a message that it is not always business as usually, that is something a blustering buffoon like Trump or a populist like Geert Wilders/mrs. Le Pen and others like them would do (and actually do, just look at Trump patting himself on the back and immediately moving into political mode rather than just showing a bit of respect to the victims of Orlando, Hillary is not a lot better but at least she was not arrogant and self congratulating about it).

It always ends up being about where the lines get put doesn't it. Sometimes on who gets to decide the lines.

I am a free man, I decide where I put them, tyvm.

 

[Hawkeye10]

And a little respect for the feelings and suffering from others every now and then is even better, much much much better in fact.

Respect is not submission without question.

I know the difference.

 

[Peter King]

It always ends up being about where the lines get put doesn't it. Sometimes on who gets to decide the lines.

I am a free man, I decide where I put them, tyvm.

And you are very free to be that free man, but in the UK the free people there make those decision, they get to decide where the line is drawn.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Seeing no one willing to debate me on the subject of response to the killing, I am out.

Ya'll know where to find me if you are interested, there are limits to how much I am willing to disrupt a thread to get some action going, to get some more quality content onto DP.

 

[Hawkeye10]

And you are very free to be that free man, but in the UK the free people there make those decision, they get to decide where the line is drawn.

And then I get to decide if I want to criticize them for their actions. Being a part of humanity I have a say in what humanity does, I have the right to object and call out just as much as I have the right to compliment , and I will use it if I think it is a good idea to or even if I just feel like it. We are all a lot more the same than we are different , and where the rubber meets the road we are all in this together.

See how this works now, do you?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

The decision of the people (living ones) of a country on whether to stay in Europe or not is a much much huger deal.

We have got to relearn how to prioritize.

We moderns really suck at this.

Seriously.

You are completely missing the point. You are applying your American values to a society that does not see things the same way. In Britain, politics and political issues seem to take a back seat to actual people. Good for them. The vote can wait for a day or so. It's not going anywhere.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Jo Cox, Brexit and the Politics of Hate

By DANIEL TRILLING

These people may act independently, but their behavior and ideas are not shaped in a void. Far more people move through the periphery of far-right politics than formally join a party or organization. The details that have emerged about Mr. Mair’s life place him in this periphery: The Southern Poverty Law Center has reported that he was a longtime customer of Vanguard Books, the publishing arm of the National Alliance, an American neo-Nazi group. The police have reportedly found Nazi regalia and far-right literature at his house.

Social media has extended the far right’s reach. Sources tell me that Britain First has only a few hundred members. But its Facebook page has more than 1.4 million likes and churns out nationalist, Islamophobic and anti-immigration memes. “Saying UK borders are secure, open to 500 million people,” declares one meme, which displays a photo of the European Union’s flag, “is like saying my home is more secure with the doors and windows left open.” Another shows Muslims praying in the street in London and asks: “Is this what our war heroes died for?” Many of these are widely shared — and they often echo the coverage of immigration and ethnic minorities found in much of the British press.

This points to an uncomfortable truth: Far-right politics cannot be as easily cordoned off from the mainstream as people would like to believe

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/o...region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0

Because this just HAS to be bad idea which we need to police and punish driven dont ya know.....and THANK GOD FOR THAT!

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

That is an assertion that I rejected, so no.

Your rejection is irrelevant. You are wrong and that's what's relevant.

Stupid is stupid, whether it is my clan doing it or another.

In this case, stupid is YOUR OPINION, which is also irrelevant. Starting to see a pattern?

And if someone else comes round making points about the ill wisdom of what my clan is doing and we dont have a reasonable defense berating the inquisitor is not either smart nor civilized.

And if you don't understand the difference between the culture in the US and the culture in the UK, perhaps you should educate yourself on that difference before you start speaking about this issue.

"DERAIL"?...Too funny, all that means is that this is not going in the direction that you would like. Maybe that means that you are not able to refute my position. Ya, that usually is what that means.

Your position is quite irrelevant as has been explained to you. Your complaints are based on your inability to refute that.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Then things over there are even worse than I thought.

No, things are DIFFERENT. Guess what, Hawkeye... and I know you are going to find this hard to believe... but you and the US are NOT the center of the universe.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Britain First deny ever having contact, the alleged murderer was never a member.

Who could that be at the middle of their banner?

 

[Manc Skipper]

Where could all the hate for migrants have come from? It's a mystery.