Movies

[grip]

TV shows are actually better but movies have turned to politically correct crap.
Are comic book heroes, animation, and horror/gore all that's left?

Don't get me wrong, I like most of the hero flicks but miss movies with quality story lines and intrigue. Hollyweird seems broken and lost.

A couple of movies I really like that I believe are way underrated.

The Rundown:

Beck (The Rock) is a tight-lipped bounty hunter who doesn't like to use a gun and accepts any job without asking questions. When Beck's employer, Walker (William Lucking), sends him to the Amazon to locate Walker's cocky son, Travis (Seann William Scott), Beck discovers a population controlled by a tyrannical treasure hunter (Christopher Walken). To survive, Beck and Travis must work together, without their affections for a mysterious rebel (Rosario Dawson) getting in the way.

Waterworld:

After the melting of the polar ice caps, most of the globe is underwater. Some humans have survived, and even fewer still, notably the Mariner (Kevin Costner), have adapted to the ocean by developing gills. A loner by nature, the Mariner reluctantly befriends Helen (Jeanne Tripplehorn) and her young companion, Enola (Tina Majorino), as they escape from a hostile artificial island. Soon the sinister Smokers are pursuing them in the belief that Enola holds the key to finding the mythical Dryland.

 

[Omniscient]

i have waterworld ulysses cut in 1080p

 

[grip]

i have waterworld ulysses cut in 1080p

I don't believe I've ever seen the uncut version. Are the extra 40 minutes good?

 

[Ouroboros]

Many of the comic book films are politically correct as well. Birds of Prey, Stay Away!

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

TV shows are actually better but movies have turned to politically correct crap.
Are comic book heroes, animation, and horror/gore all that's left?

Don't get me wrong, I like most of the hero flicks but miss movies with quality story lines and intrigue. Hollyweird seems broken and lost.

A couple of movies I really like that I believe are way underrated.

The Rundown:

Beck (The Rock) is a tight-lipped bounty hunter who doesn't like to use a gun and accepts any job without asking questions. When Beck's employer, Walker (William Lucking), sends him to the Amazon to locate Walker's cocky son, Travis (Seann William Scott), Beck discovers a population controlled by a tyrannical treasure hunter (Christopher Walken). To survive, Beck and Travis must work together, without their affections for a mysterious rebel (Rosario Dawson) getting in the way.

Waterworld:

After the melting of the polar ice caps, most of the globe is underwater. Some humans have survived, and even fewer still, notably the Mariner (Kevin Costner), have adapted to the ocean by developing gills. A loner by nature, the Mariner reluctantly befriends Helen (Jeanne Tripplehorn) and her young companion, Enola (Tina Majorino), as they escape from a hostile artificial island. Soon the sinister Smokers are pursuing them in the belief that Enola holds the key to finding the mythical Dryland.

Don't fool yourself.
Hollywood's money is more conservative today than it's probably ever been.
And that's WHY Hollywood is only interested in "blockbuster" action movies made out of old comic books and recycled TV reruns. They don't CARE if it's politically correct or NOT politically correct JUST AS LONG AS IT'S guaranteed to make record profits.
If being politically INCORRECT guaranteed a box office of epic proportions, they'd be politically incorrect.
Their motivation isn't liberals, it's liberal POCKETBOOKS and WALLETS.

Hollywood isn't making "films" anymore, that's what the premium cable outfits are doing now, and it's the GOLDEN AGE of storytelling for them now, and they ARE making better product than Hollywood. They're making better product than Hollywood by several orders of magnitude. Most of the best films of a decade ago would NEVER be made in Hollywood today and not because of politics but because of RISK.
The big movie studios don't take risks anymore.

 

[Lutherf]

I don't think politics and Hollywood have ever been completely separate.

Birth of a Nation came out in 1915 and that was pretty political. Gone With The Wind was political. Reefer Madness was political. Easy Rider was political. There have been LOTS of movies about politics and that were intended to address political issues of the time.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I don't think politics and Hollywood have ever been completely separate.

Birth of a Nation came out in 1915 and that was pretty political. Gone With The Wind was political. Reefer Madness was political. Easy Rider was political. There have been LOTS of movies about politics and that were intended to address political issues of the time.

And not a single movie like the ones you just mentioned would ever get made in Hollywood today.
And not because of politics either.
There's no explosions, no epic car chases, no superpowers, no magic, no pop soundtrack.

 

[Cordelier]

And not a single movie like the ones you just mentioned would ever get made in Hollywood today.
And not because of politics either.
There's no explosions, no epic car chases, no superpowers, no magic, no pop soundtrack.

I think you're absolutely dead-on, Checkerboard.... I'm sitting here trying to remember the last time I actually went to a theater to watch a big screen Hollywood release... and I honestly can't think of one since Avatar.... what was that? Ten years or so ago?

 

[Cordelier]

I just googled a list of the top 30 movies of the last decade... and I think maybe I've seen 2 of them.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I think you're absolutely dead-on, Checkerboard.... I'm sitting here trying to remember the last time I actually went to a theater to watch a big screen Hollywood release... and I honestly can't think of one since Avatar.... what was that? Ten years or so ago?

One of my dearest friends was first assistant editor on the 2014 Fox/NatGeo mini-series Cosmos.

- Unafraid of the Dark (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- The World Set Free (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- The Immortals (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- The Electric Boy (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- The Lost Worlds of Planet Earth (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- Sisters of the Sun (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- The Clean Room (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- Deeper, Deeper, Deeper Still (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- Hiding in the Light (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- A Sky Full of Ghosts (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- When Knowledge Conquered Fear (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- Some of the Things That Molecules Do (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- Standing Up in the Milky Way (2014) ... (first assistant editor)

She started out working for Scripps-Howard Productions on "The Unexpected Mrs. Pollifax" with an eye for making it as an editor for feature films. Along the way she discovered she'd lost the passion for movie editing because, quite frankly, she just wasn't interested in cutting bangup smashup superhero movies.
She wanted to do either drama or non-fiction, which is how she finally wound up on Cosmos.

 

[Cordelier]

One of my dearest friends was first assistant editor on the 2014 Fox/NatGeo mini-series Cosmos.

- Unafraid of the Dark (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- The World Set Free (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- The Immortals (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- The Electric Boy (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- The Lost Worlds of Planet Earth (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- Sisters of the Sun (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- The Clean Room (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- Deeper, Deeper, Deeper Still (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- Hiding in the Light (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- A Sky Full of Ghosts (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- When Knowledge Conquered Fear (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- Some of the Things That Molecules Do (2014) ... (first assistant editor)
- Standing Up in the Milky Way (2014) ... (first assistant editor)

She started out working for Scripps-Howard Productions on "The Unexpected Mrs. Pollifax" with an eye for making it as an editor for feature films. Along the way she discovered she'd lost the passion for movie editing because, quite frankly, she just wasn't interested in cutting bangup smashup superhero movies.
She wanted to do either drama or non-fiction, which is how she finally wound up on Cosmos.

Cosmos was a great series. When I first heard it was in production, I figured there was no way it was going to match Carl Sagan's original.... big shoes to fill. But I was pleasantly surprised when it did. Your friend did a great job.

I don't know how much "pull" she has with NatGeo now... but if they're looking for another great idea for an updated series, they should try to get the rights to "The Day the Universe Changed". To me, that was the ultimate science documentary series.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Cosmos was a great series. When I first heard it was in production, I figured there was no way it was going to match Carl Sagan's original.... big shoes to fill. But I was pleasantly surprised when it did. Your friend did a great job.

I don't know how much "pull" she has with NatGeo now... but if they're looking for another great idea for an updated series, they should try to get the rights to "The Day the Universe Changed". To me, that was the ultimate science documentary series.

Pull? Well....she's a film editor.
You're thinking of producers!

I was almost star-struck when she was working on Mrs. Pollifax.
Of course that made her laugh, she was "star-struck" that I was doing MTV stuff.
She enjoys the luxury of working in much nicer looking facilities, places I only rarely get to visit if I'm doing big budget commercials. (a lifetime ago - I am really getting old)
I've done most of my work in my own ratty looking edit bay.

 

[Cordelier]

Pull? Well....she's a film editor.
You're thinking of producers!

I was almost star-struck when she was working on Mrs. Pollifax.
Of course that made her laugh, she was "star-struck" that I was doing MTV stuff.
She enjoys the luxury of working in much nicer looking facilities, places I only rarely get to visit if I'm doing big budget commercials. (a lifetime ago - I am really getting old)
I've done most of my work in my own ratty looking edit bay.

Hey... I figure any producer worth his or her salt is open to any good idea... even if it happens to come from a film editor. *L*

BTW - Stupid question, so I apologize in advance... but does anyone actually use "film" anymore? I figured it was all digital now.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

BTW - Stupid question, so I apologize in advance... but does anyone actually use "film" anymore? I figured it was all digital now.

Filed under: Does anyone still play vinyl LP's or use reel to reel audio tape?

Yeah, there's directors and cinematographers who still want to use motion picture film.
These days it is mostly just a matter of personal preference because if your camera is capable of shooting 4K, 6K or 8K resolution, which is where most of the newest professional grade digital cinema cameras are at now, it is no longer a question of resolution quality anymore.

Different cinematographers have a preference for sensors the way they used to have a preference for a type of film stock, and every DP has their favorite color curves that they want to use on a preferred camera.

I'll tell what hasn't changed yet: LENSES.
And they're getting even more expensive than they used to be.
While the price of electronics keeps plummeting, even with digital cinematography kit, the price of good glass has not and it's skyrocketing. It's easy to pay as much for a top quality set of movie primes as you'd pay for a European supercar.
Of course, it is possible to do brilliant work with lesser prime lenses but once you've used the best glass you understand where the money went.
The lenses just keep getting better and better and pricier and pricier.

 

[Cordelier]

Filed under: Does anyone still play vinyl LP's or use reel to reel audio tape?

Yeah, there's directors and cinematographers who still want to use motion picture film.
These days it is mostly just a matter of personal preference because if your camera is capable of shooting 4K, 6K or 8K resolution, which is where most of the newest professional grade digital cinema cameras are at now, it is no longer a question of resolution quality anymore.

Different cinematographers have a preference for sensors the way they used to have a preference for a type of film stock, and every DP has their favorite color curves that they want to use on a preferred camera.

I'll tell what hasn't changed yet: LENSES.
And they're getting even more expensive than they used to be.
While the price of electronics keeps plummeting, even with digital cinematography kit, the price of good glass has not and it's skyrocketing. It's easy to pay as much for a top quality set of movie primes as you'd pay for a European supercar.
Of course, it is possible to do brilliant work with lesser prime lenses but once you've used the best glass you understand where the money went.
The lenses just keep getting better and better and pricier and pricier.

Thanks for the answer... as hard as it probably is for you cameramen to keep up with all of this technology, the ones I truly feel sorry for are all the make-up people. The higher the picture quality goes, the more even the slightest skin imperfections show up... and the more visible the make-up they use to hide them gets.

I've got to figure there's a point of diminishing returns there where too much resolution is just too much.

Probably just a matter of time before on-screen actors get replaced with perfectly digitalized creations anyway.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Thanks for the answer... as hard as it probably is for you cameramen to keep up with all of this technology, the ones I truly feel sorry for are all the make-up people. The higher the picture quality goes, the more even the slightest skin imperfections show up... and the more visible the make-up they use to hide them gets.

I've got to figure there's a point of diminishing returns there where too much resolution is just too much.

Probably just a matter of time before on-screen actors get replaced with perfectly digitalized creations anyway.

Not quite the case because motion picture film has boasted of AT LEAST 4K resolution since the first days of 35mm.
And I do mean AT LEAST 4K because it could be argued that motion picture film, if properly exposed under optimum conditions, might have even been "up to" 5K or 6K with certain types of film stock.
So the problem of unwanted flaws was always an issue in the movies, at least since the late 1930's.

There's always that handy set of Pro-Mist filters and even stronger stuff if you really need to hide flaws on your talent.
The reference about "Vaseline on the lens" has a grain of truth to it.
There's an old joke about how Lucille Ball (who was actually VERY savvy about the technical aspects of film!) always asked her DP's to shoot through a "gauze type filter" (predecessor to Pro-Mist) but as she grew older, DP's began to joke about "having to shoot through steel".

Cinematography is still photography and a skilled Director of Photography knows how to work together with the camera and the makeup and hair crews to get the pretty pictures we all want, even under less than ideal conditions.

What it boils down to is, you are thinking of TELEVISION, because the ANALOG standard definition television (NTSC) that everyone born before 1990 grew up with was by its very nature technically (ELECTRONICALLY) limited to a max of 480 lines vertically and 720 lines horizontally.
Translate that to the talk of "K" and the old NTSC system wasn't even 1K.
And it couldn't be because the NTSC television system was first developed in the 1930's.

The typical TV sets of the era were about 350 lines max, similar to what we see on YouTube as 360 or 480.
Compare that to "2160" which is 3840 × 2160, also referred to as "UltraHD" and 4K, even though it's really "3.840K."
So TELEVISION makeup people had less pressure on them because we were still using technology from the 1930's all the way up until 2009, which is when analog standard def went dark forever in this country.
Sure, the cameras kept getting better but you still could not send more than 0.720 K (480i) over the airwaves.

But motion picture film has always been a very cruel mistress when it comes to makeup, hair, wardrobe and the art department.

By the way, this will make you chuckle. For a brief period in the Fifties France was fooling around with a strictly black and white TV standard that was 819 lines, which is pretty close to "1080i" that we see today. It didn't last however and they reverted back to their SECAM system which was 625 lines.

TV engineer humor
NTSC: Never Twice the Same Color
PAL: Pay A Lot
PAL-M: Pay A Lot More
SECAM: System Essentially Contrary to American Method

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I'm a huge fan of noir and a huge fan of Orson Welles, I think its the case that those kinds of movies are unheard of now.

My perfect movie viewing system is simply TCM and a decent old TV, the rest doesn't matter much.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I'm a huge fan of noir and a huge fan of Orson Welles, I think its the case that those kinds of movies are unheard of now.

My perfect movie viewing system is simply TCM and a decent old TV, the rest doesn't matter much.

Define "old TV"....surely you don't mean an analog CRT set in this day and age?

The film noir influence is being felt in numerous productions from the premium cable industry, which as has been said on numerous occasions here and elsewhere, is kicking the movie industry's ass from here to Kingdom Come for the last decade or so, in terms of story quality, production values and just sheer talent.
Tons of movie stars are and have been discovering the freedom that comes with working in premium cable TV.

The big studios only want the next Pirates of the Caribbean or Star Trek, or the next rehashed TV show remake.
My son said it best seven or eight years ago: "Movies are going to become more like video games."
(The wisdom of a seventeen year old! He turned out to be right!)
They are functioning strictly on financial algorithms from beancounters while premium cable decided to leverage billions of home screens (which are now basically small movie theater screens) to supply the kind of adventurism that fuels renewed interest in things like "noir".

An increasing number of streaming services, and even a few cable channels are now offering 4K product with Dolby 5.1 audio, so it's not like it's the "small screen" that television was known as for almost eighty years.
TV is not the small screen it used to be anymore.
It's all grown up and it's been taking its vitamins and exercising and working out and it now has technological muscle that rivals anything the movie business can come up with.
And...you don't have to pick gun off the seat and be surrounded by noisy inconsiderate fops who like to text on their smartphones during the show.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Define "old TV"....surely you don't mean an analog CRT set in this day and age?

No, I wouldn't go quite that far, but the technical characteristics of the TV are not super important when watching this kind of content.

As a kid I saw a lot of these old movies that I still like to watch today, these were watched on 625 line TV back in the UK (1960s n 70s) then and since most of these movies were black n white, a color TV was unimportant.

Something about watching on an old analog TV though, has a bit of atmosphere especially if its just on in the workshop as background when I'm not glued to the story.

The film noir influence is being felt in numerous productions from the premium cable industry, which as has been said on numerous occasions here and elsewhere, is kicking the movie industry's ass from here to Kingdom Come for the last decade or so, in terms of story quality, production values and just sheer talent.
Tons of movie stars are and have been discovering the freedom that comes with working in premium cable TV.

The big studios only want the next Pirates of the Caribbean or Star Trek, or the next rehashed TV show remake.
My son said it best seven or eight years ago: "Movies are going to become more like video games."
(The wisdom of a seventeen year old! He turned out to be right!)
They are functioning strictly on financial algorithms from beancounters while premium cable decided to leverage billions of home screens (which are now basically small movie theater screens) to supply the kind of adventurism that fuels renewed interest in things like "noir".

An increasing number of streaming services, and even a few cable channels are now offering 4K product with Dolby 5.1 audio, so it's not like it's the "small screen" that television was known as for almost eighty years.
TV is not the small screen it used to be anymore.
It's all grown up and it's been taking its vitamins and exercising and working out and it now has technological muscle that rivals anything the movie business can come up with.
And...you don't have to pick gun off the seat and be surrounded by noisy inconsiderate fops who like to text on their smartphones during the show.

We've been watching THEM on TV and the style and quality is reminiscent of Twilight Zone, its not rushed, creates atmosphere, has a strong social comment and definitely has stuff that new movies lack.

Too many new movies are just hype and I think you're right about the change, the focus on blockbusters etc, very superficial.