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Mothers not employed are in the “work force”.

The OP is....

Why is it so many people find it difficult to distinguish the difference between discussing and advocating.

Should a parent receive some kind of unemployment benefits for deciding to stay at home and labor?

There is no cause to celebrate 'immigration' other than those who come legally, work and give something back to the community.

A downward trend in the rate of nature increase is nothing to shrug off. Economists have only begun to shed light on population declines and deflationary expectations.
 
What if I wanna own a really nice car. It takes time to service it, and keep it clean and detail it. That's work, shouldn't I get paid?

That is probably the most honest response I got yet, thank you!

The same could be said for mowing my lawn, etc...

The reason why I think raising a child is different is because it is essential for having functional adults later in life.
 
I understand and appreciate your point. I was a single mom for several years and was forced to make a choice between being a good mother and building a career. Both could simply not be done and done well; kids won. However, I do fear that it would incentivize people to have children they don't really want and won't properly parent. How would you avoid that?

You already have that though. I don't think running a program like this or considering it, should be shelved because there would be some bad apples trying to take advantage of it.
 
The reason why I think raising a child is different is because it is essential for having functional adults later in life.

And dysfunctional adults. We have plenty of people.
 
You already have that though. I don't think running a program like this or considering it, should be shelved because there would be some bad apples trying to take advantage of it.

I wasn't suggesting that. I was expressing a concern. I think it has merit and it shows an alignment with what we as Americans claim to be our priorities. Just think in practical terms you would need to devise a way to limit it serving as an incentive to some.
 
If we did this, we'd lose half of our workforce. Overnight.


And then we'd know REAL depression.
 
If we did this, we'd lose half of our workforce. Overnight.


And then we'd know REAL depression.
I think that is a bit of an exaggeration. And if that many people left the workforce, the large number of unemployed would fill in.
 
As anyone who was ever raised by a mother who stayed at home and could legitimately recall the work their mother did to keep things in order and to raise them, they should be able to come to the conclusion that what their mother did could very well fit into the category of “labor”.

Ever hear the term Labor of love? If you haven't learn it. It's an important concept.

If one agrees that a stay at home mom, or even a dad, is in fact a “laborer” should it then logically follow that they should be offered the same rights as people who are employed? The difference here is that one is employed (being paid) and the other is laboring, but not being paid. Should a stay at home parent have SS benefits diminished? As it stand now those benefits are diminished if a parent decides to stay at home and raise a child.

How can something be diminished if they didn't work at all.. 0 of 0 put in is still 0. So I don't understand how you say something is diminished? They aren't paying into the system. Nor are they paying any taxes.

But you are absolutely wrong! To receive Social Security you only need 40 credits and you can earn 4 per year. So you only need 10 years of work over your life. So by the time your kids are 15 years old, you start working you can easily get the 40 credit hours before retirement (hell, you could reach 80 credit hours). Let me show you how by using my wife and I as example.

My wife prior to marrying her and having our first child together at 28 (her age).. worked 5 full years. That's 20 credits. When our youngest is 18 my wife will be 47. Now if she doesn't work for another 17 years, she will have a total of 14 years to collect another 20 credits for the 62 retirement age (earliest you retire, the longer you wait they better payout you get).

But beyond that, if you are a homemaker you are entitled to 50% of your spouses payment if it's greater then yours and even from your ex (if married for 10 years). So if you just work 10 years and your spouse works for 30 years, you get 15 years worth of Social Security credit instead of the 10 you actually worked. Homemakers also qualify for Survivor benefits as well starting at 60.


Should a parent receive some kind of unemployment benefits for deciding to stay at home and labor? As it stand now their future earnings and employable skills are diminished if they decide to labor at home and raise kids. Could this be a reason why more women are working professionals early in life, and foregoing motherhood?

UE benefits? Again to get those benefits you have had to work. Future earnings are always diminished for some reason, you get sick, you die, and so on. But a homemaker's is not diminished because they never worked in the first place. If they get a job later in life they actually increase their returns.

The main reasons:

1) is a culture change that came about from the Feminist movement (women in the workforce) from the 1950s -1970s (mid). This was part of the house wives wanted to work ("pink collar" jobs), and the came the "quiet revolution) of the 1970s (late)- today where the idea of working changed from necessity (to supplement household income) to let's have a career. But during all those culture changes, US birth rates started dropping in the 1960s and have flatten out to it's current levels by the 1970s.

2) Another by product of these changes, number of Female teachers started to drop, but women in business grew. It's why liberals call for more equal opportunity in these fields and expect women to gain promotion to certain positions. It's how Sandra Day O'Connor came to the supreme court (with the help of Sen. Goldwater), how you might find a female in charge of the Fed soon and so on.

3) Birth Control become widely available.

Those 3 things make a bigger difference then paying a man or women a few hundred dollars a month to stay home.

Now we aren't gonna get rid of any of these things. They are here to stay but they are a byproduct of liberalism (in classical sense) and I absolutely agree with all 3 of them. But in no way is it a better idea to pay to get people to stay home to counter act "progress". Paying people to stay unemployed.. I think you lost your marbles.

Right now our employable population is measured by something called the Labor Participation Rate (LPR), which measures the amount of people able to work. This number leaves out those who stay at home to raise children. As it stands now the LPR is at 63.4%, and I am positive that this number would drastically increase if being a child raiser was included as participating in the labor force.

Of course it would be higher. But not as much as you think. But this is getting insane. So insane I have to ask..Can I reclassify my homestead as a business and treat her as an employee? Oh wait, I can't fire my wife without her taking half of my estate.

With all this being said I think it is due time to consider and discuss how we monetarily ignore the most important job of all, motherhood and raising children.

Ignore? Dude, are you married? Have kids? Think about this. I pay $22,000 less in taxes because I am married and have 2 kids then I did before I was married and had kids. Why? Because Uncle Sam gives me deductions for it and puts me in a lower tax bracket. That's almost minimum wage worth of deductions and less taxes.

No, thanks.. if I put that $22,000 in my wife's IRA she'd be better off then a few hundred dollars a month from Guberment.
 
I think that is a bit of an exaggeration. And if that many people left the workforce, the large number of unemployed would fill in.

Have to be trained and all those other costs related to it. ;)
 
How can something be diminished if they didn't work at all.. 0 of 0 put in is still 0. So I don't understand how you say something is diminished? They aren't paying into the system. Nor are they paying any taxes.

But you are absolutely wrong! To receive Social Security you only need 40 credits and you can earn 4 per year. So you only need 10 years of work over your life. So by the time your kids are 15 years old, you start working you can easily get the 40 credit hours before retirement (hell, you could reach 80 credit hours). Let me show you how by using my wife and I as example.
Even if that is the case there is still an average lost lifetime income from having a baby of over $1 million. Also can you link me to the credit thing? I am doing research on this and would love to read up on it :)
 
Ignore? Dude, are you married? Have kids? Think about this. I pay $22,000 less in taxes because I am married and have 2 kids then I did before I was married and had kids. Why? Because Uncle Sam gives me deductions for it and puts me in a lower tax bracket. That's almost minimum wage worth of deductions and less taxes.

No, thanks.. if I put that $22,000 in my wife's IRA she'd be better off then a few hundred dollars a month from Guberment.
Yes I am married but no kids so no tax breaks. I do realize that having kids does give you a tax break.
 
Why do you believe it is sufficient to respond to a positive statement, "The U.S. is the only developed nation in the world that does not mandate paid maternity leave", with a normative statement, "Nor should it"?

Kush, it is no more the place of the Government to subsidize women to stay home and have children than it is the place of those women to be in the workforce to begin with. It's a nonsense problem to begin with.... Why would the Government require maternity leave for people who shouldn't be at work to begin with?
 
JP said:
Why should having children be negatively rewarded?
Who claimed it was negative? You did JP, and you've made yet another absurd argument. In the real world, when one does a cost/benefit analysis, it's the net outcome that matters. Yes children are expensive, but it's up to the family to decide if it was worth the cost. Sure it may cost $200K over their child's time until 18. But the family my have considered it worth every penny. To them, they are not negatively rewarded.
Notice that you are then in the absurd position of informing a family who absolutely feels they were rewarded 10-fold with the blessing of their child, that based on your personal fantastic brainpower, that they were in fact "negatively rewarded". Absurd as usually. If they have the freedom to choose, they can weight the outcome. If you are choosing for them, their concern should not be negative rewards, it should be their lack of freedom and how precisely it is that you came to have such authoritarian control over their life, liberty, etc.


Also there is no risk at all of you having to pay for anything, our country is monetarily sovereign, no reason to tax before spending.
Cuckoo.

Hey everyone, liberal programs that will spend a lot of money won't actually cost us anything. Basically we don't actually pay taxes today! Hooray, JP told me so, is what I'll tell the IRS.
 
Who claimed it was negative?

Yes having a kid is monetarily damaging to someone who wishes to stay at home. That is another indisputable fact.
 
Even if that is the case there is still an average lost lifetime income from having a baby of over $1 million. Also can you link me to the credit thing? I am doing research on this and would love to read up on it :)

So? The difference between a HS diploma and a College degree is about $ 1 million as well. Difference between being a dropout or a graduate of high school is about $600,000. Should we give high school graduates and drop outs money as well?

Information on credit..

Earning Social Security credits
 
Yes I am married but no kids so no tax breaks. I do realize that having kids does give you a tax break.

You do get tax breaks for just being married. You get a standard deduction of almost $12,000 while singles can only deduct $5,950. So if your spouse doesn't work, you get a better deduction then if they had worked.
 
As anyone who was ever raised by a mother who stayed at home and could legitimately recall the work their mother did to keep things in order and to raise them, they should be able to come to the conclusion that what their mother did could very well fit into the category of “labor”.

If one agrees that a stay at home mom, or even a dad, is in fact a “laborer” should it then logically follow that they should be offered the same rights as people who are employed? The difference here is that one is employed (being paid) and the other is laboring, but not being paid. Should a stay at home parent have SS benefits diminished? As it stand now those benefits are diminished if a parent decides to stay at home and raise a child.

Should a parent receive some kind of unemployment benefits for deciding to stay at home and labor? As it stand now their future earnings and employable skills are diminished if they decide to labor at home and raise kids. Could this be a reason why more women are working professionals early in life, and foregoing motherhood?

Right now our employable population is measured by something called the Labor Participation Rate (LPR), which measures the amount of people able to work. This number leaves out those who stay at home to raise children. As it stands now the LPR is at 63.4%, and I am positive that this number would drastically increase if being a child raiser was included as participating in the labor force.

With all this being said I think it is due time to consider and discuss how we monetarily ignore the most important job of all, motherhood and raising children.
My mother worked before I was born.
Then she quit to raise me while my father continued to work as a police officer.
They were born during the depression, were part of the greatest generation, and never once asked for a hand out from anyone.
We never went hungry we always had one or two cars and roofs over our heads.
 
The OP raises valid questions. But in a way also disregards some realities.

Until you get to middle class income, the government does somewhat subsidize stay-at-home parents via food stamps, housing assistance, insurance and other assistance programs. So much so we know couples with children that will not marry nor live together or they BOTH would lose "benefits" and government assistance - which can include their housing, paid daycare, food stamps and free medical insurance, plus pocket money.

One we know literally has 1 child with one of them and 2 with the other - living at separate locations - so they both can draw maximum benefits due to the child/children they both have. Doing this is worth about $2500 between them. They would go homeless and broke if they married and lived together. That is exactly why they don't marry and don't live together - though basically move back and forth between their locations tacitly to "just spend the night" at one or the other's location.

The government literally pays parents to divorce and be separated. And quite a bit, equating to as much as over a couple thousand dollars per month.

I do agree that some manner of having parents who personally raise their children should be in the social security system for their old-age.
 
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I think that is a bit of an exaggeration. And if that many people left the workforce, the large number of unemployed would fill in.

There are no where NEAR the number of currently unemployed as there are parents.
 
Yes having a kid is monetarily damaging to someone who wishes to stay at home. That is another indisputable fact.

This is not always true. As I've pointed out with my case, You can get better tax breaks and such with a kid and staying at home (no income) then you do if you work and have a kid. So you have to figure out what the sweet spot is, not arbitrarily announce something as a fact.

If we decided to give money to my wife for being a stay at home mom, she'd have to pay taxes on that income and as a family we'd move to a higher tax bracket and instead of an extra $22,000 in non-taxable income we'd lose that and have to pay taxes on a portion of it so it would be a net monetary loss as well.
 
If one agrees that a stay at home mom, or even a dad, is in fact a “laborer” should it then logically follow that they should be offered the same rights as people who are employed?

No, because she's not raising kids as a business and she's not working for anyone else. I mean, by your logic I should get SS credit when I mow my grass or wash my car. How about when I pick a booger out of my nose or take a shower? That's labor, too, isn't it? I mean, how far do you want to take this?

Anyone's free to start a child or lawn care business if he wants and then he can pay the employer's and employee's shares of the FICA taxes. Remember, these are payroll taxes. No payroll, no tax. Hence, no benefit.
 
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