Most Pivotal moment of the American Revolution.

[cpgrad08]

We would have won without the French. The Dutch would have filled the arms orders.

There was no weapon that represented the majority of weapons used by the Colonists, so the absence of French arms wouldn't have been that big a deal, IMO.

You sure?

French Charleville Musket - 1766 Model Flintlock

 

[apdst]

You sure?

French Charleville Musket - 1766 Model Flintlock

Yes, I'm sure. The Charleville didn't represent a majority of weapons used by the Colonists. There were as many Liege muskets used as Charlevilles.

 

[cpgrad08]

Yes, I'm sure. The Charleville didn't represent a majority of weapons used by the Colonists. There were as many Liege muskets used as Charlevilles.

Out of curiosity. What is by your standard would be a major contribution when it comes to arms?

 

[apdst]

Out of curiosity. What is by your standard would be a major contribution when it comes to arms?

I never said anything about a, "major contribution". I said a, "majority", of the type of weapons.

I understand that The Colonial Army imported a truckload of weapons from France. All I'm saying is, that that made no more difference than any other batch of weapons that were imported, built, or captured by the Colonials.

Arms came from The Netherlands, Belgium and Spain as well. It was the Dutch that established a free port on the Island of St. Eustatius, that allowed shipments from Europe to even make it to the Colonies, to begin with.

Did the French aid the Colonials? Was it significant? Of course it was. Is it a bonefide fact that they won the war for us? Not even hardly.

 

[cpgrad08]

I never said anything about a, "major contribution". I said a, "majority", of the type of weapons.

I understand that The Colonial Army imported a truckload of weapons from France. All I'm saying is, that that made no more difference than any other batch of weapons that were imported, built, or captured by the Colonials.


Arms came from The Netherlands, Belgium and Spain as well. It was the Dutch that established a free port on the Island of St. Eustatius, that allowed shipments from Europe to even make it to the Colonies, to begin with.

Did the French aid the Colonials? Was it significant? Of course it was. Is it a bonefide fact that they won the war for us? Not even hardly.

I never said they won the war for us. I said we wouldn't have won the war without them.

 

[apdst]

I never said they won the war for us. I said we wouldn't have won the war without them.

In the latter, you are wrong. Without the Dutch, those arms shipments would have never made it to the Colonies. The Brits had seaborn superiority--not supremacy, but definitely superiority.

There's no evidence that we would have lost the war without help from the French. There's not a single contribution, made by the French, that was coming from someone else, or couldn't be found somewhere else.

I'm not discrediting their contribution. I'm simply trying to explain to you that their contribution has been greatly over-rated throughout history.

 

[cpgrad08]

In the latter, you are wrong. Without the Dutch, those arms shipments would have never made it to the Colonies. The Brits had seaborn superiority--not supremacy, but definitely superiority.

There's no evidence that we would have lost the war without help from the French. There's not a single contribution, made by the French, that was coming from someone else, or couldn't be found somewhere else.

I'm not discrediting their contribution. I'm simply trying to explain to you that their contribution has been greatly over-rated throughout history.

You think that those countries would have recognize the United States if the French hadn't?

 

[apdst]

You think that those countries would have recognize the United States if the French hadn't?

Dubrovnik, Morocco and The Netherlands were the first countries to recognize the United States. France didn't exactly lead the way in the arena.