Most comprehensive study yet- new world genocide linked to cause of the Little Ice Age

[Threegoofs]

This is something I’ve been aware of since reading Charles Mann’s 1493 - an impressive book about the clash of civilizations after the discovery of the new world.

A new paper out gives further evidence to the theory that the massive death and disruption of human populations in the new world following encounters with Europeans in the early 1500s triggered a massive regrowth of vegetation and a subsequent drop in CO2 levels. This drop actually triggered the so called ‘Little Ice Age’ of the late 1600-1700s.

The open access paper is here:
Earth system impacts of the European arrival and Great Dying in the Americas after 1492 - ScienceDirect

A solid BBC writeup on it is here:

America colonisation ?cooled Earth's climate? - BBC News

Charles Mann actually tweeted about it here:

Twitter

I dont think this has taken into account another possible major impact of colonization... that is that there’s good archeological evidence that native Americans cleared huge swaths of land by fire. With a massive population drop, reforestation would recur and CO2 production would drop, causing further impacts on CO2 concentrations.

Note that temperature drop (0.3 degrees C) and the CO2 drop (10-15 ppm) is minuscule compared to what the temp rise and CO2 rise is today... we are increasing CO2 by about 3ppm per year, which is 30x the rate of the 1500s.

But its interesting to see an anthropogenic effect from 500 years ago.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

All of the science deniers that claim that man can't have an effect on the environment are morons.

 

[uptower]

This is something I’ve been aware of since reading Charles Mann’s 1493 - an impressive book about the clash of civilizations after the discovery of the new world.

A new paper out gives further evidence to the theory that the massive death and disruption of human populations in the new world following encounters with Europeans in the early 1500s triggered a massive regrowth of vegetation and a subsequent drop in CO2 levels. This drop actually triggered the so called ‘Little Ice Age’ of the late 1600-1700s.

The open access paper is here:
Earth system impacts of the European arrival and Great Dying in the Americas after 1492 - ScienceDirect

A solid BBC writeup on it is here:

America colonisation ?cooled Earth's climate? - BBC News

Charles Mann actually tweeted about it here:

Twitter

I dont think this has taken into account another possible major impact of colonization... that is that there’s good archeological evidence that native Americans cleared huge swaths of land by fire. With a massive population drop, reforestation would recur and CO2 production would drop, causing further impacts on CO2 concentrations.

Note that temperature drop (0.3 degrees C) and the CO2 drop (10-15 ppm) is minuscule compared to what the temp rise and CO2 rise is today... we are increasing CO2 by about 3ppm per year, which is 30x the rate of the 1500s.

But its interesting to see an anthropogenic effect from 500 years ago.

Problem is this is dangerous ammunition in the hands of right-wingers.

They'll now claim that in order to prevent another 'ice age' we have to keep cutting down forests and increase CO2 levels, or at least maintain them.

The distinction of what the Little Ice Age actually was will be lost of course, because they don't do science. Just like they take the straw man of an overheated 'Mad Max' desert wasteland being the result of global warming in order to pooh-pooh climate fears, they will scaremonger with images of a frozen polar moonscape in order to avoid taking action against rising temperatures.

 

[Lursa]

This is something I’ve been aware of since reading Charles Mann’s 1493 - an impressive book about the clash of civilizations after the discovery of the new world.

Excellent book! Did you read his 1491?

And this book is amazing, done in the style of 1493, with studies from all different researchers and theories discussed and examined, but on climate change.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZ6RXS6/ref=oh_aui_d_asin_title_o04_?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The Ends of the World: Volcanic Apocalypses, Lethal Oceans, and Our Quest to Understand Earth's Past Mass Extinctions

 

[WCH]

Is there a book on when people moved from Africa, northward/eastward?

Or did history only start with the creation of America?

 

[Lursa]

Is there a book on when people moved from Africa, northward/eastward?

Yes, a few. I read a really good one a few years ago and it also covered the ranges of Homo sapiens and the Neanderthals and when and where their ranges overlapped.

I'd have to look thru my Kindle to find it...are you actually interested? It doesnt seem to have much value for someone that rejects human evolution.

 

[WCH]

Yes, a few. I read a really good one a few years ago and it also covered the ranges of Homo sapiens and the Neanderthals and when and where their ranges overlapped.

I'd have to look thru my Kindle to find it...are you actually interested? It doesnt seem to have much value for someone that rejects human evolution.

I know there are. Just wondering if it fits this agenda.

 

[Lursa]

I know there are. Just wondering if it fits this agenda.

Not likely much. Those populations had little lasting effect on the environment.

The most damage they did was the extinction of animal species they hunted, using 'jumps' and such.

Even the burning they did wasnt extensive...populations werent that large.

 

[Threegoofs]

Excellent book! Did you read his 1491?

And this book is amazing, done in the style of 1493, with studies from all different researchers and theories discussed and examined, but on climate change.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZ6RXS6/ref=oh_aui_d_asin_title_o04_?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The Ends of the World: Volcanic Apocalypses, Lethal Oceans, and Our Quest to Understand Earth's Past Mass Extinctions

Yes. 1491 was amazing... although 1493 was a lot more thought provoking- I learned a lot from it.

I’ll check out the other one, but my unread book pile is getting huge...

 

[Threegoofs]

I know there are. Just wondering if it fits this agenda.

If by ‘agenda’ you mean ‘informs one with factual information about the impact of man on the environment’, then yes.

There’s lots of good books out there.

 

[Lursa]

The 'agenda' comment is laughable.

The outstanding feature of these books is that they arent the author's 'word' or 'opinion' or research. They are compilations of the major research into these areas...mainstream and non, popular and non, mostly consensus and those with many fewer in agreement or even off-the-wall.

The author presents them, in context, and let's them speak for themselves. He also includes footnotes and bibiography so that anyone can go to the source and read the full theories or research and decide for themselves.

But imagining agendas enables some to dismiss what they choose not to believe.

 

[Threegoofs]

Excellent book! Did you read his 1491?

And this book is amazing, done in the style of 1493, with studies from all different researchers and theories discussed and examined, but on climate change.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZ6RXS6/ref=oh_aui_d_asin_title_o04_?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The Ends of the World: Volcanic Apocalypses, Lethal Oceans, and Our Quest to Understand Earth's Past Mass Extinctions

Looking at that book more..

It looks awesome.

Guess my pile is going to grow!

Thanks!

 

[Jack Hays]

This is something I’ve been aware of since reading Charles Mann’s 1493 - an impressive book about the clash of civilizations after the discovery of the new world.

A new paper out gives further evidence to the theory that the massive death and disruption of human populations in the new world following encounters with Europeans in the early 1500s triggered a massive regrowth of vegetation and a subsequent drop in CO2 levels. This drop actually triggered the so called ‘Little Ice Age’ of the late 1600-1700s.

The open access paper is here:
Earth system impacts of the European arrival and Great Dying in the Americas after 1492 - ScienceDirect

A solid BBC writeup on it is here:

America colonisation ?cooled Earth's climate? - BBC News

Charles Mann actually tweeted about it here:

Twitter

I dont think this has taken into account another possible major impact of colonization... that is that there’s good archeological evidence that native Americans cleared huge swaths of land by fire. With a massive population drop, reforestation would recur and CO2 production would drop, causing further impacts on CO2 concentrations.

Note that temperature drop (0.3 degrees C) and the CO2 drop (10-15 ppm) is minuscule compared to what the temp rise and CO2 rise is today... we are increasing CO2 by about 3ppm per year, which is 30x the rate of the 1500s.

But its interesting to see an anthropogenic effect from 500 years ago.

Dating has always been the problem for this hypothesis, and it remains a problem still. The onset of the LIA and European penetration of the Americas don't match up well.

Therefore, any of several dates ranging over 400 years may indicate the beginning of the Little Ice Age:

• 1250 for when Atlantic pack ice began to grow; cold period possibly triggered or enhanced by the massive eruption of Samalas volcano in 1257[SUP][17][/SUP]
• 1275 to 1300 based on the radiocarbon dating of plants killed by glaciation
• 1300 for when warm summers stopped being dependable in Northern Europe
• 1315 for the rains and Great Famine of 1315–1317
• 1550 for theorized beginning of worldwide glacial expansion
• 1650 for the first climatic minimum.

The Little Ice Age ended in the latter half of the 19th century or early in the 20th century.[SUP][18][/SUP][SUP][19][/SUP][SUP][20][/SUP]

Little Ice Age - Wikipedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age



During the period 1645–1715, in the middle of the Little Ice Age, there was a period of low solar activity known as the Maunder Minimum. The Spörer Minimum has also been identified with a significant cooling period between 1460 and 1550.‎Late Antique Little Ice Age · ‎Medieval Warm Period · ‎Skeletal fluorosis

 

[Threegoofs]

Dating has always been the problem for this hypothesis, and it remains a problem still. The onset of the LIA and European penetration of the Americas don't match up well.

Therefore, any of several dates ranging over 400 years may indicate the beginning of the Little Ice Age:

• 1250 for when Atlantic pack ice began to grow; cold period possibly triggered or enhanced by the massive eruption of Samalas volcano in 1257[SUP][17][/SUP]
• 1275 to 1300 based on the radiocarbon dating of plants killed by glaciation
• 1300 for when warm summers stopped being dependable in Northern Europe
• 1315 for the rains and Great Famine of 1315–1317
• 1550 for theorized beginning of worldwide glacial expansion
• 1650 for the first climatic minimum.

The Little Ice Age ended in the latter half of the 19th century or early in the 20th century.[SUP][18][/SUP][SUP][19][/SUP][SUP][20][/SUP]

Little Ice Age - Wikipedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age



During the period 1645–1715, in the middle of the Little Ice Age, there was a period of low solar activity known as the Maunder Minimum. The Spörer Minimum has also been identified with a significant cooling period between 1460 and 1550.‎Late Antique Little Ice Age · ‎Medieval Warm Period · ‎Skeletal fluorosis

LOL.

Your dates overlap your touted ‘MWP’. Classic garbage.

If one reads the paper, you can see the temps and CO2 in the graphs.

 

[Jack Hays]

LOL.

Your dates overlap your touted ‘MWP’. Classic garbage.

If one reads the paper, you can see the temps and CO2 in the graphs.

Well, no. MWP usually said to end 1250, so it all fits together.

[h=3]Medieval Warm Period - Wikipedia[/h]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period
[/URL]

The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) also known as the Medieval Climate Optimum, or MedievalClimatic Anomaly was a time of warm climate in the North Atlantic region that may have been related to other warming events in other regions during that time, including China and other areas, lasting from c. 950 to c. 1250.

 

[Threegoofs]

Well, no. MWP usually said to end 1250, so it all fits together.

[h=3]Medieval Warm Period - Wikipedia[/h]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period
[/URL]

The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) also known as the Medieval Climate Optimum, or MedievalClimatic Anomaly was a time of warm climate in the North Atlantic region that may have been related to other warming events in other regions during that time, including China and other areas, lasting from c. 950 to c. 1250.

Usually.

I recall in your other threads having it out to 1400 or later.

But then again, you would deny this, just like you do everything else.

 

[Jack Hays]

Usually.

I recall in your other threads having it out to 1400 or later.

But then again, you would deny this, just like you do everything else.

Now you're just wishing it were so.

 

[Lursa]

Looking at that book more..

It looks awesome.

Guess my pile is going to grow!

Thanks!

The title is a little more 'dramatic' than I'd expect for a book that is based solely on science and not rhetoric but it is solid and serious.

 

[Lursa]

Well, no. MWP usually said to end 1250, so it all fits together.

[h=3]Medieval Warm Period - Wikipedia[/h]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period
[/URL]

The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) also known as the Medieval Climate Optimum, or MedievalClimatic Anomaly was a time of warm climate in the North Atlantic region that may have been related to other warming events in other regions during that time, including China and other areas, lasting from c. 950 to c. 1250.

btw, if you havent read this, I highly recommend it.

Excellent book! Did you read his 1491?

And this book is amazing, done in the style of 1493, with studies from all different researchers and theories discussed and examined, but on climate change.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZ6RXS6/ref=oh_aui_d_asin_title_o04_?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The Ends of the World: Volcanic Apocalypses, Lethal Oceans, and Our Quest to Understand Earth's Past Mass Extinctions

 

[Jack Hays]

btw, if you havent read this, I highly recommend it.

Looks interesting, but I'm already backed up about 20 books.

 

[Lursa]

Looks interesting, but I'm already backed up about 20 books.

Who isnt!

 

[Jack Hays]

Little Ice Age | geochronology | Britannica.com


https://www.britannica.com/science/Little-Ice-Age



Little Ice Age (LIA), climate interval that occurred from the early 14th century through the ... The cause of the Little Ice Age is not known for certain; however, ...

 

[Jack Hays]

[h=3]Little Ice Age - Environmental History Resources[/h]
[url]https://www.eh-resources.org/little-ice-age/
[/URL]

Jun 5, 2015 - The exact cause of the Little Ice Age is unknown, but there is a striking coincidence in the sunspot cycle and the timing of the Little Ice Age.

The Little Ice Age was a period of regionally cold conditions between roughly AD 1300 and 1850. The term “Little Ice Age” is somewhat questionable, because there was no single, well-defined period of prolonged cold. There were two phases of the Little Ice Age, the first beginning around 1290 and continuing until the late 1400s. There was a slightly warmer period in the 1500s, after which the climate deteriorated substantially, with the coldest period between 1645 and 1715 . During this coldest phase of the Little Ice Age there are indications that average winter temperatures in Europe and North America were as much as 2°C lower than at present. . . .

 

[Threegoofs]

Looks interesting, but I'm already backed up about 20 books.

Halfway through the Bobbsey Twins series already!

Good job!

 

[WCH]

btw, if you havent read this, I highly recommend it.

The book blames climate change for the dinosaur's demise. How does this jive with Europeans coming to the Americas?