More U.S. troops died in Iraq over past four months than in any similar period of war

[Chanda]

Re: More U.S. troops died in Iraq over past four months than in any similar period of

He stated, in plain, obvious and incontrovertable terms, that Saddam had WMDs and WMD programns, and because Iraq had not complied with the terms of various UN resolutions in terms of both destroying these things and allowing inspectors in, he was ordering air and missile strikes. So -- Bill Clinton lied. Right?

I think your whole purpose is to force me to admit Clinton lied, right? It isn't my objective to defend Bill Clinton. I don't believe he was truthful in his reasons for Desert Fox, but I haven't found a quote in which he states in plain, obvious and incontrovertable terms that Saddam Hussein had WMD. In the quotes I have seen provided as evidence, he doesn't:

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."

Read Clinton's speech. He said Saddam had a weapons program. He said Saddam had used WMD in the past. He said Saddam would develop and use them again, if left unchecked, but unless I missed it, he didn't say in plain, obvious, and incontrovertable terms that Saddam Hussein had WMD. If he did, please point it out to me. As if I had to say that. :roll:

Transcript: President Clinton explains Iraq strike - December 16, 1998

 

[Goobieman]

Re: More U.S. troops died in Iraq over past four months than in any similar period of

I think your whole purpose is to force me to admit Clinton lied, right? It isn't my objective to defend Bill Clinton. I don't believe he was truthful in his reasons for Desert Fox, but I haven't found a quote in which he states in plain, obvious and incontrovertable terms that Saddam Hussein had WMD. In the quotes I have seen provided as evidence, he doesn't:

Yes he does. He states clearly that we are attacking his weapons and his programs and his mneans top deliver them.

Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.
To attack the progeams, the programs must exist.
To attack the military capacity, the capacity must exist.

If we had delayed for even a matter of days from Chairman Butler's report, we would have given Saddam more time to disperse his forces and protect his weapons.
To disperse the weapons, the weapons must exist.

So we will pursue a long-term strategy to contain Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction
To contain the weapons, the weapons must exist.

The credible threat to use force, and when necessary, the actual use of force, is the surest way to contain Saddam's weapons of mass destruction program
To contan the WMD programs, the programs must exist.

These sttements, previously excerpted, are -necessarioly- a claim that Iraq had WMDs and WMD programs at the time of the attack -- and that we were attacking them necessitates that we knew where they were.

If we knew they were there in 1998, then where is the evidence that they were destroyed 1998-2003?

If we did NOT know we they were there, then Clinton lied, just like Bush lied.

Its that simple. So, which is it?

 

[Jerry]

Re: More U.S. troops died in Iraq over past four months than in any similar period of

All the more reason to start withdrawing our troops sooner than later, this war is done with, over and out!

More U.S. troops died in Iraq over past four months than in any similar period of war - USATODAY.com...

..I'm still joining the Army this summer...it's more dangerous to drive in America than it is to fight in Iraq, so until I hear you crazy libs advocating the elimination of private vehicles non of your cries of troop casualties will find an audience with me.

If I get blown up or killed, that would suck, but similar injuries could happen to me on the road and I don't hesitate to get a license and drive, why should I hesitate to serve?

By definition you don't support the troops if you don't support what they do every day, so you don't support the troops.

 

[Chanda]

Re: More U.S. troops died in Iraq over past four months than in any similar period of

To attack the progeams, the programs must exist.

Programs for WMD are not WMD. Programs can consist of nothing more than scientists and plans. All countries have programs; they are not necessarily threatening.

To attack the military capacity, the capacity must exist.

The capacity for having WMD is not the same as having WMD.

If we had delayed for even a matter of days from Chairman Butler's report, we would have given Saddam more time to disperse his forces and protect his weapons...To disperse the weapons, the weapons must exist.

He was speaking hypothetically. In other words, IF we delayed, Saddam COULD HAVE dispersed his forces to protect his weapons HE MIGHT HAVE HAD. Even so, Saddam Hussein was allowed to have conventional weapons. "Weapons" doesn't necessarily mean WMD, even though it may be implied.

So we will pursue a long-term strategy to contain Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction...To contain the weapons, the weapons must exist.

That doesn't mean they exist CURRENTLY.

The credible threat to use force, and when necessary, the actual use of force, is the surest way to contain Saddam's weapons of mass destruction program...To contan the WMD programs, the programs must exist.

Again, WMD programs are not the same thing as WMD.

These sttements, previously excerpted, are -necessarioly- a claim that Iraq had WMDs

You have yet to prove that Clinton said Saddam Hussein had WMD at the time of the attack.

and WMD programs at the time of the attack

I will grant you that. WMD programs are not the same as WMD, and not necessarily threatening.

and that we were attacking them necessitates that we knew where they were.

Wrong. The stated reason for Desert Fox was to force Saddam to comply with UN inspections.

 

[Goobieman]

Re: More U.S. troops died in Iraq over past four months than in any similar period of

Programs for WMD are not WMD. Programs can consist of nothing more than scientists and plans. All countries have programs; they are not necessarily threatening.

The capacity for having WMD is not the same as having WMD.

He was speaking hypothetically. In other words, IF we delayed, Saddam COULD HAVE dispersed his forces to protect his weapons HE MIGHT HAVE HAD. Even so, Saddam Hussein was allowed to have conventional weapons. "Weapons" doesn't necessarily mean WMD, even though it may be implied.

That doesn't mean they exist CURRENTLY.

Again, WMD programs are not the same thing as WMD.

You have yet to prove that Clinton said Saddam Hussein had WMD at the time of the attack.

I will grant you that. WMD programs are not the same as WMD, and not necessarily threatening.

Wrong. The stated reason for Desert Fox was to force Saddam to comply with UN inspections.

Now you're just denying reality. Clinton -clearly- indicated that Iraq had WMDs and WMD programs in his speech, as proven by these quotes.

 

[Chanda]

Re: More U.S. troops died in Iraq over past four months than in any similar period of

Now you're just denying reality. Clinton -clearly- indicated that Iraq had WMDs and WMD programs in his speech, as proven by these quotes.

You have yet to prove that Clinton said Saddam Hussein had WMD. I never denied that he said Saddam Hussein had WMD programs. For the umpteenth time, WMD programs are not the same as WMD. You are the one who is reality-impaired.

 

[Goobieman]

Re: More U.S. troops died in Iraq over past four months than in any similar period of

You have yet to prove that Clinton said Saddam Hussein had WMD. I never denied that he said Saddam Hussein had WMD programs. For the umpteenth time, WMD programs are not the same as WMD. You are the one who is reality-impaired.

One last time:

If we had delayed for even a matter of days from Chairman Butler's report, we would have given Saddam more time to disperse his forces and protect his weapons
What weapons, if not his WMDs, is he dispersing and protecting?
Please note that he said "forces" and "weapons" - if "weapons" means conentional weapons, why make the distinction?

He was speaking hypothetically...

Yes.. as in if we did not wait. We did not wait, and so the hypothetical doesnt apply. We attacked when we did so he could not protect his WMDs.

So we will pursue a long-term strategy to contain Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction...
He's not talking about containing weapons he MIGHT have, he's talking about weapons he DOES have.

Wrong. The stated reason for Desert Fox was to force Saddam to comply with UN inspections

That's true. but, as I said -- we were attaking hois WMDs and WMD programs. He said so.
How can we attack them if we dont know where they are?

 

[ARealConservative]

Re: More U.S. troops died in Iraq over past four months than in any similar period of

By definition you don't support the troops if you don't support what they do every day, so you don't support the troops.

I just finished my taxes last night and it made me wonder....Am I the lone friggin american supporting the troops right now?

The next person that questions if I'm supporting the troops is going to have my AMT tax stuck so far up their orrifice that even the IRS won't risk auditing me. :mrgreen:

 

[Chanda]

Re: More U.S. troops died in Iraq over past four months than in any similar period of

One last time: "If we had delayed for even a matter of days from Chairman Butler's report, we would have given Saddam more time to disperse his forces and protect his weapons"...What weapons, if not his WMDs, is he dispersing and protecting? Please note that he said "forces" and "weapons" - if "weapons" means conentional weapons, why make the distinction?

Goobieman, this statement is ambiguous, and I really can't say what he meant. What kind of weapons he meant is unclear. Therefore, I think it's a bit of a stretch to use this sentence as proof Clinton lied about Saddam's WMD.

"So we will pursue a long-term strategy to contain Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction'...He's not talking about containing weapons he MIGHT have, he's talking about weapons he DOES have.

Long-term refers to the future. I have a long-term plan to amass my fortune. But unfortunately, I don't currently have a fortune. :sigh:

That's true. but, as I said -- we were attaking hois WMDs and WMD programs. He said so.

I don't think he did. He most certainly didn't in "plain, obvious and incontrovertable" terms. If you used these statements to prove Clinton lied about Saddam's WMD, you would have a very weak case...