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More Terrorists or Less Terrorists?

Terrorists: More or Less Terrorists Since Invasion of Iraq?

  • YES - More Terrorists created since the war began

    Votes: 24 68.6%
  • NO - Less Terrorists since the war began

    Votes: 8 22.9%
  • THE SAME amount since the war began

    Votes: 3 8.6%

  • Total voters
    35

26 X World Champs

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In another thread we're debating whether there are more terrorists in the world today than there were before we invaded Iraq. I think there are many, many more, and that the war is a great recruiting tool for our enemy.

What do you think?
 

Blackflagx

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Id say yes, although I still think that the Bush administration is the biggest terrorist organization on earth. I just hope you dont mean the Iraqi resistance. They are defending themselves like anyone would. But yes, more violence, and therefore terrorism has been created. However, Bush still holds the award for worlds current biggest terrorist.
 

Arch Enemy

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There's no possible way anybody can have a "good idea" on if there are more or less terrorists. You can't just count the strength as every known terrorist organization and get a correct estimate, there are more terrorists then there are organization, you don't have to be apart of an organization to be a terrorist.

Do I consider the George W. Bush administration a terrorist organization? Why yes, of course they are.

If I had to pick, then I'd say that there are more terrorists than before the invasion.
 

Simon W. Moon

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I'm in the suspecting more camp.

aQ came out hard against USA and many Muslims said, "Well the US are really assholes, but they're not that bad and they're NIMBY."But now they're saying, "Well, I guess UbL was right, they are that bad and they are IMBY."

Our erstwhile allies in Turkey have suddenly found more sympathy for aQ et al:
Extreme Anti-Americanism in Turkey
"It is difficult to detect the difference between what Osama bin Laden said in his 19 audio and videotapes since September 11, 2001, and what some Turkish journalists write. If anything, the Turks outvenom bin Laden.
This would be hilarious if not for the incontrovertible fact that it is believed not only by Islamist extremists but by countless millions of Muslim fundamentalists ...
Anti-Americanism is a relatively new phenomenon in Turkey. Throughout the 1990s in Turkey, 60 percent of the people had favorable views about the U.S. and its policies. The 2003 Iraq war closed many minds.​
In Many Turks' Eyes, U.S. Remains the Enemy
Hostility Bodes Ill For Efforts to Boost Americans' Image
The latest survey, gathered in February by the private Metropoll organization, found that four in 10 Turks regard the United States as their country's "biggest enemy." That is more than double the number who named Greece, the ancient rival Turkey has come to the brink of war with three times in the last half-century.​
Apparently, we're not seeing the results in our battle w/ extremist for the hearts and minds of moderate Muslims that one would hope for.

Take it up w/ Porter Goss:
http://cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2004/Goss_testimony_02162005.html
Testimony of Director of Central Intelligence
Porter J. Goss
Before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
16 February 2005
Islamic extremists are exploiting the Iraqi conflict to recruit new anti-US jihadists.
These jihadists who survive will leave Iraq experienced in and focused on acts of urban terrorism. They represent a potential pool of contacts to build transnational terrorist cells, groups, and networks in Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other countries.​
Here's something to chew on for the moment:
http://www.foia.cia.gov/2020/2020.pdf

• Anti-globalization and opposition to
US policies could cement a greater
body of terrorist sympathizers,
financiers, and collaborators.
societies
.
• Iraq and other possible conflicts in
the future could provide recruitment,
training grounds, technical skills and
language proficiency for a new class
of terrorists who are “professionalized”
and for whom political
violence becomes an end in itself.
• Foreign jihadists—individuals ready
to fight anywhere they believe
Muslim lands are under attack by
what they see as “infidel invaders”—
enjoy a growing sense of support
from Muslims who are not
necessarily supporters of terrorism.
 

ShamMol

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Re: I'm in the suspecting more camp.

We can't know for sure, but I tend to believe there are more. We may have destroyed camps, but the prison scandals and killing of innocents has surely made more terrorists.
 

anomaly

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Re: I'm in the suspecting more camp.

When we invaded Afghanistan, the effect was that if you would collect a pile of flour on a table, and smash it with your fist. Terrorism was merely greatly displaced, out of Afghanistan, and the Middle East in general, to all other parts of the globe. That, combined with the points Shammol made, leads me to believe that today there are more terrorists.
 

Fantasea

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Blackflagx said:
Id say yes, although I still think that the Bush administration is the biggest terrorist organization on earth. I just hope you dont mean the Iraqi resistance. They are defending themselves like anyone would. But yes, more violence, and therefore terrorism has been created. However, Bush still holds the award for worlds current biggest terrorist.
Nah. Your buddy, Gulag Joe Stalin and his henchmen have a record that will never be equalled. How many tens of millions did he 'eliminate'? Following close behind Joe are several other Commies. I don't have to tell you who they are.

Iraqi resistance? Only from the leftovers from the Saddam Hussein regime who realize that there is no place for them in the new Iraq, except in prison. So, true to their code, they will die and take as many Iraqis with them as they can.

You have noticed that the resistance, as you charitably call these terrorists, has turned the brunt of its effort against defenseless Iraqi civilians, haven't you?

So, who are they resisting?
 

Shye

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oh there are more terrorists in Iraq since the invasion of Iraq. They just want us out of there.
 

Fantasea

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Shye said:
oh there are more terrorists in Iraq since the invasion of Iraq. They just want us out of there.
Where did these terrorists come from.

Who, specifically, just want us our of there?
 

slim

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"More terrorists or less terrorists?"

The question you should really be asking is "more reasons for terrorism or less?"
 

Arthur Fonzarelli

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slim said:
"More terrorists or less terrorists?"

The question you should really be asking is "more reasons for terrorism or less?"
Terrorists have no need for reason...

Terrorism is the absence of reason...
 

Gandhi>Bush

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The terrorists don't have a reason for killing? That's an interesting theory. Could you elaborate?
 

Arthur Fonzarelli

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Gandhi>Bush said:
The terrorists don't have a reason for killing? That's an interesting theory. Could you elaborate?
Within the past year bin Laden released a tape that stated he was planning an attack on America at the scale of 9/11 since we helped him & his cronies defeat the Russians in the Afghan War during the 80s. Please show me where you find "REASON" in that mindset.....also show me where you find "REASON" in any terror attack.....
 

Gandhi>Bush

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http://cfrterrorism.org/groups/binladen.html

Why does bin Laden hate America?
Bin Laden and other militant Islamist leaders issued a 1998 manifesto denouncing the presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia, U.S. support of Israel, and sanctions against Iraq. “To kill Americans and their allies, both civil and military, is an individual duty of every Muslim who is able, in any country,” the manifesto reads, “until their armies, shattered and broken-winged, depart from all the lands of Islam.” Bin Laden regards Western institutions—coed schools, MTV, Rotary clubs, democracy itself—as depraved.
He has plenty of reasons, and for some reason I doubt that the "Q&A" is entirely comprehensive of every reason. I think the biggest reasons that draw people to terrorism are the indifference of the west and the military actions of the west. I have no sources, but thats just what makes sense to me. I'm still doing research on that particular topic.

I would like to take a look at this manifesto myself. If anybody has run across it, could you send me a link or something?
 

slim

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First you have to put yourself in a potential terrorists place, imagine the political and social surroundings.

People dont just become terrorists overnight or at birth. It takes a social background and condition to trigger off action. Terrorism is not an ideology, it is a tactic.

The social reason behind 9/11 was arguably to do with the west's domination of key resources in the middle east. The USA has a history of meddling with middle eastern powers and perhaps some thought that they were being exploited by them.

A prime example of reason in terrorism is the war in northern Ireland. Both sides of the war used terror because it was the only tactic that could be used. The people were being attacked and needed to defend themselves from 300 years of built up hatred. Look at footage of the battle of the Bogside and you'll see how urget was the need for a real defense force. The catholics needed the IRA and the protestants needed the UDA and others to protect their interests.

Back to the question. Why use that particular tactic? The simple answer is finance and legality.

At what point does an army become paramilitary? When the opposition government/ media see them as illegal. To paramilitaries they see themselves as a legal army.

To the question you asked:

Terrorists do have a reason for killing and that reason can be applied to all legal armies. The reasons are political.
 

GarzaUK

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Yeah slim, I've been trying to tell these guys that terrorism cannot be defeated by war, using Northern Ireland as an example, but you can't get through to them.

One of the funniest things I've seen in this war is an US Army Officer talking to a camera.
"These guys they shoot and run away, shoot and run away. They won't take us on in a fair fight." he moaned.

lol yeah take on the most powerful military force in the world in a fair fight, who in their mind would do that lol dumbass
 

mixedmedia

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I think it's obvious that there are more terrorists in Iraq. Elsewhere, who knows. History (recent and past) does seem to teach that asserting authority through violence is a potent fertilizer for the seeds of terrorist violence so I think it is likely.
 

Fantasea

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Arch Enemy said:
Do I consider the George W. Bush administration a terrorist organization? Why yes, of course they are.
Why is that?
 

slim

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GarzaUK said:
One of the funniest things I've seen in this war is an US Army Officer talking to a camera.
"These guys they shoot and run away, shoot and run away. They won't take us on in a fair fight." he moaned.

lol yeah take on the most powerful military force in the world in a fair fight, who in their mind would do that lol dumbass
Yea lol,

I figured out the strategy behind guerrilla tactics when i was about 10. Maybe some people on this forum are clinically retarded and need our pity. Strange how people who criticise terrorism as a tactic are seen as retarded...

Think about it people, outnumbered, outgunned, inferior technology, strong ideology= guerrilla warfare.

Another point is that have you noticed that the Bush admin. fight terrorists more than countries, why?

Becuase countries have land, terrorists have ideas. Ideas scare the tyrants in Washingon...
 

Shye

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Fantasea said:
Where did these terrorists come from.

Who, specifically, just want us our of there?
Radicals that don't want us in Iraq, People that have family members and friends killed by U.S.

Yes it was a good thing that we got saddam out of power, but now we are just controlling thier country
 

ShamMol

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Fantasea said:
Why is that?
If you don't know, that is pretty sad. If you don't already know the reasoning behind that statement, you should hang around liberals more often. I would assume Arch meant the killing of civilians, the dismantling of worlds, the domination of conservatism (ok, arch may not have meant that last one...that's me, lol). Something along those lines is probably what he meant.
 

Fantasea

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Shye said:
Originally Posted by Fantasea
Where did these terrorists come from.

Who, specifically, just want us our of there?
Radicals that don't want us in Iraq, People that have family members and friends killed by U.S.

Yes it was a good thing that we got saddam out of power, but now we are just controlling thier country
The millions of Iraqis who elected a democratic form of government seem satisfied with the 'new look' in Iraq.

The problem is caused by the surviving Saddam Hussein henchmen who see themselves trying to recoup their losses by intimidating the new government.

The terrorists are supplied, financed, and reinforced by the leaders of the surrounding Arab nations who know that democracy is infectious and fear that the desire for it might spread to their own countries. They saw what happened in the Soviet satellite nations when Poland was freed.
 

akyron

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26 X World Champs said:
In another thread we're debating whether there are more terrorists in the world today than there were before we invaded Iraq. I think there are many, many more, and that the war is a great recruiting tool for our enemy.

What do you think?
Pulling no punches, US Secretary of State Colin Powell has denounced madrassas or schools imparting religious education in Pakistan and several other countries as breeding grounds for "fundamentalists and terrorists."


I think we see more terrorists now but not many more than there were before.
Terrorists are created in madrassas and have been for a long time.

Take them out and in three generations there will likely be peace.



So they were basically recruiting schools?

They were recruiting, organizing schools which also use Islamic ideology as a way of creating a very efficient guerilla army with a very clear anti-communist ideology.
--PBS interview with Vali Nasr



8 year olds practicing to be "good" muslims.

1st Period:AK47 Basics
(Thanks Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov for a such a cheap and dependable Semi, Full Auto rifle we could never have invented ourselves.70 million AK47s world-wide.)
2nd Period:Keeping the Women in Line 101
3rd period: Advanced IED (Improvised Explosive Devices)
Lunch:Milk,(goats),Fresh fruits.Legumes, rice
4th period: Reciting the Koran
Qur’an 33:60 -Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy-
5th period: More reciting the Koran
Bukhari:V9B87N127 “The Prophet said, ‘I have been given the keys of eloquent speech and given victory with terror.’”
Homework: Go recite the Koran (Blow up and infidel for extra credit)
(Focus on Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels.)


See you kids tomorrow(Unless of course you get a chance to strap a bomb to your ass and jump on to a bus full of kids err infidels.)
 

akyron

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slim said:
Where did you get those sources? Western propaganda.

PBS and CNN if you had looked.
 
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