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More States Are Proposing Single-Payer Health Care. Why Aren’t They Succeeding?

Depends. I don't pay for my health insurance now that I'm retired because my income is too low but my premiums depended on my last income tax filing while I was working. When my income and my wife's income were high we paid around $135/month, if I remember right, but that varies too. In Canada It's administered by the provinces who handle the federal contributions. And it would be different in different countries but most of the funding comes from taxes, whatever scheme you look at.

What you paid ($135) a month was not the cost of your health insurance. Typically (on average) employers cover 80% of the cost of premiums meaning the $135 was only 20%. That puts the actual cost of premiums around $675 per month or $8,100 per year for an employee + spouse plan.

I'm assuming this was some years ago as our current cheapest plan as an employer with about 3,000 employees for combined spouse coverage is over $20,000 per year with the 80/20 split in effect.

WW
 
What you paid ($135) a month was not the cost of your health insurance. Typically (on average) employers cover 80% of the cost of premiums meaning the $135 was only 20%. That puts the actual cost of premiums around $675 per month or $8,100 per year for an employee + spouse plan.

I'm assuming this was some years ago as our current cheapest plan as an employer with about 3,000 employees for combined spouse coverage is over $20,000 per year with the 80/20 split in effect.

WW
When I paid my premiums I was working non-union and had no benefits. When I was in the union I didn't pay anything for medical, dental and vision care. The union covered that.
 
Lol even in these supposedly left of center Democrat states, they'll still blanch at such a proposal and likely back down to the lobbying from the healthcare industry. We've still got a long ways to go

Indeed, the difficulty advocates have had getting traction in states that are (on paper, at least) more amenable to this concept than the rest of the nation is a big alarm bell.

That's why I wouldn't be surprised to see states take steps toward some form of price-setting for hospitals and others first. That's what we're seeing in the small number of states that are advancing public option plans, and even red states seem fed up with hospital prices. It's easier (and more broadly attractive across the political spectrum) to set some guardrails around pricing then transition an entire health system toward something like a single-payer model.

 
Indeed, the difficulty advocates have had getting traction in states that are (on paper, at least) more amenable to this concept than the rest of the nation is a big alarm bell.

That's why I wouldn't be surprised to see states take steps toward some form of price-setting for hospitals and others first. That's what we're seeing in the small number of states that are advancing public option plans, and even red states seem fed up with hospital prices. It's easier (and more broadly attractive across the political spectrum) to set some guardrails around pricing then transition an entire health system toward something like a single-payer model.


While only the will of the legislature is required to mandate $2 hamburgers (or INR tests) in their state, it also takes someone willing to provide $2 hamburgers (or INR tests) in that state for that to become a reality.


 
While only the will of the legislature is required to mandate $2 hamburgers (or INR tests) in their state, it also takes someone willing to provide $2 hamburgers (or INR tests) in that state for that to become a reality.



My INR checks are 100% FREE with my Cadillac BidenCare™ plan.

Thats how it should be for every American IMO. You just cant beat that price IMO.
 
You are inadvertently correct.
That was a typo. People blame insurers for high healthcare costs because that is who they pay. It’s not your insurers fault that a neurologist will bill 5k for less than 5 minutes of their time to glance at a ct scan. It’s not your insurer’s fault a plastic surgeon will bill 30k for twenty minutes of their time on a handful of facial stitches in a critical car unit. It’s not the insurers fault that there is a huge consulting industry whose only purpose is to show providers how to maximize billing up to the legal line of fraud. The problem is the unregulated healthcare is a market failure that allows providers to extort more and more money out of the rest of the economy.
 
That was a typo. People blame insurers for high healthcare costs because that is who they pay. It’s not your insurers fault that a neurologist will bill 5k for less than 5 minutes of their time to glance at a ct scan. It’s not your insurer’s fault a plastic surgeon will bill 30k for twenty minutes of their time on a handful of facial stitches in a critical car unit. It’s not the insurers fault that there is a huge consulting industry whose only purpose is to show providers how to maximize billing up to the legal line of fraud. The problem is the unregulated healthcare is a market failure that allows providers to extort more and more money out of the rest of the economy.
But it is, in a way
 
Indeed, the difficulty advocates have had getting traction in states that are (on paper, at least) more amenable to this concept than the rest of the nation is a big alarm bell.

That's why I wouldn't be surprised to see states take steps toward some form of price-setting for hospitals and others first. That's what we're seeing in the small number of states that are advancing public option plans, and even red states seem fed up with hospital prices. It's easier (and more broadly attractive across the political spectrum) to set some guardrails around pricing then transition an entire health system toward something like a single-payer model.

The only way at this point is to start primarying these legislatures and governors from the left. Ofc the political establishment and DNC will cry but its sorely needed especially in states like California where a variety of social problems, key among them affordable housing, continues to be ignored
 
FiveThirtyEight had a nice article this week looking at the recent surge in interest in some sort of state-level single-payer health care program, as well as the barriers to that approach. Plus a little foray into looking at the recent state attempts at state-level "public option" plans as an alternative to a larger systemic shake-up.

More States Are Proposing Single-Payer Health Care. Why Aren’t They Succeeding?


The barriers aren't mysterious, they tend to fall into three intertwined categories.

  • Regulatory. The biggest challenge here revolves around the fact that most people with private insurance have employer-based coverage, and most people with employer-based coverage are in self-funded plans (i.e., their employer effectively is their insurer, putting aside funds to pay for their health needs). And states can't regulate self-funded plans. That's a big one and would likely require either a very successful persuasion campaign aimed at employers doing business in the state, or more likely some heavy lifting by the state's Congressional delegation to write an exemption into federal law.
  • Financial. There's two pieces to this, one of which intersects with the regulatory questions: (1) re-capturing federal money that currently flows into the state via various avenues (Medicare, Medicare, and Affordable Care Act premium subsidies), and (2) raising revenue to capture the rest from the state's tax base. The former requires some deft maneuvering but has some prospects based on various waiver authorities built into federal law, while the latter perhaps requires convincing enough people that their increased tax burden would just offset what they're currently spending on insurance premiums.
  • Political. All changes create winners and losers, and it's generally easy to galvanize potential losers against their potential losses than potential winners around their potential gains. The losers could be hospitals, or insurers, or just people who think their tax burden will in fact increase by more than the value of their current premiums. The more a state tries to convince almost everyone they will win, the more generous the promises become and the more concentrated the losses become (galvanizing the losers even more, and leading to proposals more and more people scoff at as unrealistic).
Are these challenges insurmountable for a state? Maybe, but still seemingly less so than first trying to implement a single-payer system at the national level. And arguably some sort of successful state-level implementation ought to happen before considering any sort of national program. So who'll step up and take the plunge first? California? New York? Massachusetts?

You are leaving out the main reason anything that stops anything that is politically popular from being done. Bribery. Or, if you prefer, "lobbying."
 
Should have stopped right there.

Except in cases where moving to a larger pool doesn't actually lower average costs. As in going from a state-level risk pool to a national one. There's nothing inherently impossible about a state financing its own health care, particularly if it gets to keep any federal dollars currently flowing into its health system.

Even Bernie's single-payer proposal during the Obama years was built on a state-based system. He didn't drop that until well into his first presidential run.

That was a typo. People blame insurers for high healthcare costs because that is who they pay. It’s not your insurers fault that a neurologist will bill 5k for less than 5 minutes of their time to glance at a ct scan. It’s not your insurer’s fault a plastic surgeon will bill 30k for twenty minutes of their time on a handful of facial stitches in a critical car unit. It’s not the insurers fault that there is a huge consulting industry whose only purpose is to show providers how to maximize billing up to the legal line of fraud. The problem is the unregulated healthcare is a market failure that allows providers to extort more and more money out of the rest of the economy.

This is why it seems more likely states will just intervene with respect to prices in some way rather than revamp their health care systems into something like a single-payer model. But still, it's striking that only one state, Vermont, has even gotten close to trying out some variant of single-payer, and even it didn't really get that close.

You are leaving out the main reason anything that stops anything that is politically popular from being done. Bribery. Or, if you prefer, "lobbying."

The counterpoint to that would be an example of putting the question directly to voters in a blue state, which Colorado did in 2016. Their single-payer ballot question lost 79-21, suggesting there's apprehension about the concept that goes well beyond everyone just being bribed.

Anyway, lobbying is something interests on both sides get to do; those who believe they stand to lose from such a policy (say, hospitals) have as much right to advocate as those who believe they stand to gain (say, the California Nurses Association). And as I said in the OP, it's a lot easier to galvanize interests and people around the fear of losing something than the hope of gaining something. Loss aversion is very powerful. That seems like enough to explain the lack of uptake of single-payer, even in deep blue states.
 
So what is their “fair share”? Give a percentage.
Not sure what that would solve with an anonymous Internet personality providing a percentage, yet, many low income individuals already receive subsidies at the local, state and federal level -- any many times earned income credit. They pay ZERO in income taxes, yet suck on the federal / state tit dependent on others to provide, which only makes them more dependent and less likely to get out of their situation.
 
Individual states are far more beholding to their budgets...whereas if the leftists can push it at a federal level, its just another barrel of spending to add to the national debt that no one really cares about.
 
Not sure what that would solve with an anonymous Internet personality providing a percentage, yet, many low income individuals already receive subsidies at the local, state and federal level -- any many times earned income credit. They pay ZERO in income taxes, yet suck on the federal / state tit dependent on others to provide, which only makes them more dependent and less likely to get out of their situation.
Right, but someone earning 25k a year and trying to live off that, would you have them coming up with another $1000 dollars a year, $2000 or what?
 
Right, but someone earning 25k a year and trying to live off that, would you have them coming up with another $1000 dollars a year, $2000 or what?
What would be a proportionate value they could contribute so they are contributing ... and not being a debt on society? It's a pretty simple concept.
 
What would be a proportionate value they could contribute so they are contributing ... and not being a debt on society? It's a pretty simple concept.
No, it's not a simple concept. If it were a simple concept, you could just throw a number of a percentage out. If you are paid $25,000 a year and you are paid biweekly, then after deductions, your take home pay is going to be about $640 dollars every 2 weeks. So out of that $640 dollars every 2 weeks they take home now, how much more do you propose they pay to the government?
 
No, it's not a simple concept. If it were a simple concept, you could just throw a number of a percentage out. If you are paid $25,000 a year and you are paid biweekly, then after deductions, your take home pay is going to be about $640 dollars every 2 weeks. So out of that $640 dollars every 2 weeks they take home now, how much more do you propose they pay to the government?
Sigh .. any number that produced a positive result, instead of a debt, would be beneficial. Simple math and accounting.
 
Sigh .. any number that produced a positive result, instead of a debt, would be beneficial. Simple math and accounting.
So assuming this person that has about $640 every 2 weeks to live on is currently paying no income taxes (though they do pay every other tax), you want them to have even less to live on than $640 dollars every 2 weeks. So what is your number? Is it 100 dollars every 2 weeks in taxes? 200 dollars, 50 dollars or what?
 
So assuming this person that has about $640 every 2 weeks to live on is currently paying no income taxes (though they do pay every other tax), you want them to have even less to live on than $640 dollars every 2 weeks. So what is your number? Is it 100 dollars every 2 weeks in taxes? 200 dollars, 50 dollars or what?
I'm assuming that proportionately, this low income person should PAY (instead of sucking from government resources) just like me. Why is that difficult to understand? Many of the low income wage earners get more in tax refunds than they even pay in ...
 
I'm assuming that proportionately, this low income person should PAY (instead of sucking from government resources) just like me. Why is that difficult to understand? Many of the low income wage earners get more in tax refunds than they even pay in ...
Yes, so you are saying we should do away with refundable child credits and the earned income credit, and make them pay more in federal income taxes. That is simply a recipe to increase the poverty rate substantially.
 
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