David G
Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2016
- Messages
- 156
- Reaction score
- 59
- Location
- Portland, OR
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Slightly Liberal
I introduced myself earlier on a 'say hi' thread... but the following is a fuller look at the background and bias/perspective I bring to the group --
An Economist Pontificates.
A friend offers the following –
At its best, conservatism as shown by a line of American conservatives from George Washington through Senator Taft embody the wondrous if boring virtue of rectitude. Unfortunately, this is a tough virtue to maintain, quickly becoming the judgmental hypocrisy we see in the recent crop of hateful talking heads who so devalue meaning that they demonize the word "liberal" and don't live up to any of the virtues found in the dictionary definition of conservative. They are not conservative in the positive sense but rather are only defenders of power and wealth.
I believe he's substantially correct. But what does that mean in terms of economics?
One of the long term patterns inherent in our system of market capitalism (combined with democratic elections) is an ongoing pendulum swing between the extremes of laissez-faire capitalism on one hand, and Scandinavian-style "market socialism" on the other.
Full disclosure: I'm non-doctrinaire, but tend to lean toward the progressive side. However, my undergraduate work was in economics w/graduate work in economic history & economic development.
To elaborate -- market capitalism is a very efficient system for fostering innovation, accumulating capital, and developing economies. This powerful engine is driven by a particular side of human nature: the ceaseless dynamo of human need and human greed. Don't think I'm condemning. I'm not. For the most part market capitalism does a great job of channeling this drive into productive avenues.
But capitalism also has some built-in issues. Some characterize it as the worst economic system we've ever invented... except for all the others.
The biggest issue? It requires careful regulation by civic-minded, even-handed, knowledgeable leaders. Because - if left unchecked - market capitalism has some built-in destructive tendencies. Historically, the continued accrual of more & more capital & power into fewer & fewer hands has led to an inefficient functioning of the economy.
More speculative bubbles. More oscillations. Eventual instability. One example is the Great Depression. Hoover was an absolute True Believer in the notion that "The business of America is business". He thought the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer was good for the country. He was not the only one. The process began before him. He was just the Final Fool before the fall in that particular episode of the drama. A more recent example was the Bush Recession... which we are yet to fully recover from.
What followed the Great Depression was a rapid swing of the pendulum to the far end of the spectrum. Roosevelt instituted Social Security; Unemployment Insurance; WPA programs; and a bevy of other programs which were the antithesis of Hoover's approach. Socialism, all of it. Don't think I'm condemning. It worked, and it has a place in our society. We are a far more stable economy now - with these programs in place - than we were before.
I could go on and on with the variations, ramifications, and permutations of the pattern. Also about the dangers if the pendulum swings too far (we're close right now) toward laissez-faire (think Weimar Germany and Adolph Hitler). Instead, I'll sum up by saying it is not a case of "us vs. them".... of your particular ideology vs. mine. It is a case of recognizing where we are – right now - in the pendulum swing... and accepting whatever corrections are in order... even if that leads away from your particular ideological island.
Right now, as I mentioned, we've swung a good long way toward unchecked capitalism. It's time for a correction. Conservatives should not howl at the prospect. They should welcome it as a normal, desirable, adjustment (think "market correction" if it makes you feel better). Liberals should not think that the answer is to swing to the other end of the spectrum and stay there. That place has its own problems, dangers, and inefficiencies.
So - it's time for all of us to embrace a bit of "socialism" and step back a bit from the dog-eat-dog wing of capitalism. We will possibly over-correct (this system is a positive feedback loop, and they have that tendency). Then it will be time for all of us to embrace a little more market control. "To everything, Turn turn turn, There is a season, Turn turn turn..."
"When there is an accumulation of money and power into fewer and fewer hands, people with the mentality of gangsters come to the fore. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" -- Lord Acton <Keep in mind that he's British, and he said this in 1877. This is not the first time the pattern has played out>
An Economist Pontificates.
A friend offers the following –
At its best, conservatism as shown by a line of American conservatives from George Washington through Senator Taft embody the wondrous if boring virtue of rectitude. Unfortunately, this is a tough virtue to maintain, quickly becoming the judgmental hypocrisy we see in the recent crop of hateful talking heads who so devalue meaning that they demonize the word "liberal" and don't live up to any of the virtues found in the dictionary definition of conservative. They are not conservative in the positive sense but rather are only defenders of power and wealth.
I believe he's substantially correct. But what does that mean in terms of economics?
One of the long term patterns inherent in our system of market capitalism (combined with democratic elections) is an ongoing pendulum swing between the extremes of laissez-faire capitalism on one hand, and Scandinavian-style "market socialism" on the other.
Full disclosure: I'm non-doctrinaire, but tend to lean toward the progressive side. However, my undergraduate work was in economics w/graduate work in economic history & economic development.
To elaborate -- market capitalism is a very efficient system for fostering innovation, accumulating capital, and developing economies. This powerful engine is driven by a particular side of human nature: the ceaseless dynamo of human need and human greed. Don't think I'm condemning. I'm not. For the most part market capitalism does a great job of channeling this drive into productive avenues.
But capitalism also has some built-in issues. Some characterize it as the worst economic system we've ever invented... except for all the others.
The biggest issue? It requires careful regulation by civic-minded, even-handed, knowledgeable leaders. Because - if left unchecked - market capitalism has some built-in destructive tendencies. Historically, the continued accrual of more & more capital & power into fewer & fewer hands has led to an inefficient functioning of the economy.
More speculative bubbles. More oscillations. Eventual instability. One example is the Great Depression. Hoover was an absolute True Believer in the notion that "The business of America is business". He thought the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer was good for the country. He was not the only one. The process began before him. He was just the Final Fool before the fall in that particular episode of the drama. A more recent example was the Bush Recession... which we are yet to fully recover from.
What followed the Great Depression was a rapid swing of the pendulum to the far end of the spectrum. Roosevelt instituted Social Security; Unemployment Insurance; WPA programs; and a bevy of other programs which were the antithesis of Hoover's approach. Socialism, all of it. Don't think I'm condemning. It worked, and it has a place in our society. We are a far more stable economy now - with these programs in place - than we were before.
I could go on and on with the variations, ramifications, and permutations of the pattern. Also about the dangers if the pendulum swings too far (we're close right now) toward laissez-faire (think Weimar Germany and Adolph Hitler). Instead, I'll sum up by saying it is not a case of "us vs. them".... of your particular ideology vs. mine. It is a case of recognizing where we are – right now - in the pendulum swing... and accepting whatever corrections are in order... even if that leads away from your particular ideological island.
Right now, as I mentioned, we've swung a good long way toward unchecked capitalism. It's time for a correction. Conservatives should not howl at the prospect. They should welcome it as a normal, desirable, adjustment (think "market correction" if it makes you feel better). Liberals should not think that the answer is to swing to the other end of the spectrum and stay there. That place has its own problems, dangers, and inefficiencies.
So - it's time for all of us to embrace a bit of "socialism" and step back a bit from the dog-eat-dog wing of capitalism. We will possibly over-correct (this system is a positive feedback loop, and they have that tendency). Then it will be time for all of us to embrace a little more market control. "To everything, Turn turn turn, There is a season, Turn turn turn..."
"When there is an accumulation of money and power into fewer and fewer hands, people with the mentality of gangsters come to the fore. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" -- Lord Acton <Keep in mind that he's British, and he said this in 1877. This is not the first time the pattern has played out>