More housekeeping underway..... "White soldier charged with assault for shoving, berating Black man in viral video"

[ElChupacabra]

Back in the 60's and 70's in Boston, Italians, Irish, Puerto Rican's, and blacks got their ass beat if they went into the wrong hood.

It was a daily occurance...............routine shit.

Now it makes you instantly famous or infamous in the social media world of today.

Many things that were routine were bad routines, unless you think your freedom of movement in this country should be determined by your race/ethnicity.

 

[roguenuke]

What conclusion do you have me jumping to?

I apologize, but I did misread what you posted to begin with, that seemed to be assuming that he had no reason to confront the person at all. He may have had a reason to confront, but confront does not mean assault.

 

[Bodi]

An NCO is not called an officer, correct.

Cool. They did in that news clip... that is my confusion.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Many things that were routine were bad routines, unless you think your freedom of movement in this country should be determined by your race/ethnicity.

It's the way people are, and all the social justice in the world isn't going to change anything.

 

[MSgt]

I believe that study is looking at deaths by police compared to population.. It is not comparing deaths to the number of encounters with police by race. If a race has more encounters with the police, their chance of a fatal encounter may increase.

Clearly, with white people showing more deaths, white people have more encounters than blacks. Yet, blacks are disproportionately killed. <----That is what you keep denying.

Your attempt to reason around the truth does not work, and smacks of right-wing propaganda. It is funny how you conservatives are the only ones who choose to buy into this false argument about encounters, yet can't see how they are manipulating only you. By "they," I mean those who present alt-right agendas and false right-wing politics to preserve delusions of an internal enemy.

 

[roguenuke]

Many things that were routine were bad routines, unless you think your freedom of movement in this country should be determined by your race/ethnicity.

Back in the 60's and 70's in Boston, Italians, Irish, Puerto Rican's, and blacks got their ass beat if they went into the wrong hood.

It was a daily occurance...............routine shit.

Now it makes you instantly famous or infamous in the social media world of today.

Again, where does race have any bearing here besides the assumptions people are jumping to in regards to this confrontation. There is no indication (beyond the assumptions on social media and by people overreacting without additional information) that this Sgt confronted him, demanded he leave because of his race or being "in the wrong hood". The information we have is that he was confronting him based on reports he received, on the Sgt being asked for help. Whether it was appropriate or not, and the manner in which it was done (the assaulting part) are separate completely from having evidence that this was based on race.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Clearly, with white people showing more deaths, white people have more encounters than blacks. Yet, blacks are disproportionately killed. <----That is what you keep denying.

Your attempt to reason around the truth does not work, and smacks of right-wing propaganda. It is funny how you conservatives are the only ones who choose to buy into this false argument about encounters, yet can't see how they are manipulating only you.

Combative encounters vs. Complying encounters?

I'd like to see that stats on it.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Again, where does race have any bearing here besides the assumptions people are jumping to in regards to this confrontation. There is no indication (beyond the assumptions on social media and by people overreacting without additional information) that this Sgt confronted him, demanded he leave because of his race or being "in the wrong hood". The information we have is that he was confronting him based on reports he received, on the Sgt being asked for help. Whether it was appropriate or not, and the manner in which it was done (the assaulting part) are separate completely from having evidence that this was based on race.

I'm not condoning or judging anything here, but If the young black dude was being a tool, the Sgt. could as easily called the cops and then just kept an eye on him.

Now he's looking at NJP or a possible court martial depending how the politicking Generals in DC feel about it.

 

[roguenuke]

Cool. They did in that news clip... that is my confusion.

I did listen and see where they said that, but it was likely a copy mistake or someone not understanding that NCO is not officer. The story itself though does identify the guy as a Staff sergeant.

 

[pamak]

Clearly, with white people showing more deaths, white people have more encounters than blacks. Yet, blacks are disproportionately killed. <----That is what you keep denying.

Your attempt to reason around the truth does not work, and smacks of right-wing propaganda. It is funny how you conservatives are the only ones who choose to buy into this false argument about encounters, yet can't see how they are manipulating only you. By "they," I mean those who present alt-right agendas and false right-wing politics to preserve delusions of an internal enemy.

What is also interesting is that the encountered Black victims were more likely to be unarmed

From your link

Most victims were reported to be armed (83%); however, black victims were more likely to be unarmed (14.8%) than white (9.4%)

It remind me the statistics of the NY stop and frisk policy where it was also less likely for Blacks who were stopped to have on them illegal guns, This can happen when cops make decisions based not on reasonable suspicion but based on racial profiling,

 

[roguenuke]

I'm not condoning or judging anything here, but If the young black dude was being a tool, the Sgt. could as easily called the cops and then just kept an eye on him.

Now he's looking at NJP or a possible court martial depending how the politicking Generals in DC feel about it.

NJP is a command level process. And he isn't likely to face court martial for something like this (although it is possible, but would be wrong). But he would also be able to obtain a lawyer for a court martial offense.

And yes, he could have done that, but people don't normally react to such situations like that, thinking about the consequences in that way, beforehand.

 

[ElChupacabra]

It's the way people are, and all the social justice in the world isn't going to change anything.

Some are and it's "social justice" that does indeed change how people behave. It was routine to segregate people based on race until social justice efforts changed it.

 

[RetiredUSN]

NJP is a command level process. And he isn't likely to face court martial for something like this (although it is possible, but would be wrong). But he would also be able to obtain a lawyer for a court martial offense.

And yes, he could have done that, but people don't normally react to such situations like that, thinking about the consequences in that way, beforehand.

They already kicked him from his instructor position, and now he's waiting on the Great Fathers in DC for any more disciplinary actions.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Again, where does race have any bearing here besides the assumptions people are jumping to in regards to this confrontation. There is no indication (beyond the assumptions on social media and by people overreacting without additional information) that this Sgt confronted him, demanded he leave because of his race or being "in the wrong hood". The information we have is that he was confronting him based on reports he received, on the Sgt being asked for help. Whether it was appropriate or not, and the manner in which it was done (the assaulting part) are separate completely from having evidence that this was based on race.

My response was in reference to @RetiredUSN's comment and not this particular incident.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Some are and it's "social justice" that does indeed change how people behave. It was routine to segregate people based on race until social justice efforts changed it.

It hasn't done shit on the street level.

 

[buck]

Clearly, with white people showing more deaths, white people have more encounters than blacks. Yet, blacks are disproportionately killed. <----That is what you keep denying.

Your attempt to reason around the truth does not work, and smacks of right-wing propaganda. It is funny how you conservatives are the only ones who choose to buy into this false argument about encounters, yet can't see how they are manipulating only you. By "they," I mean those who present alt-right agendas and false right-wing politics to preserve delusions of an internal enemy.

Blacks are less likely to be killed than whites, if you look at deaths compared to police encounters. That is what the numbers show.

 

[roguenuke]

They already kicked him from his instructor position, and now he's waiting on the Great Fathers in DC for any more disciplinary actions.

DI/instructor positions are normally for those who have exemplary records. He deserves to be charged with assault here, so that in itself will put him out of that position. Until we know more, we don't know what other punishment he may face. It will likely depend on whether he gets jail time or not for this. Personally, I believe at most he should get a fine, possibly community service since the guy was not hurt by his actual assault. Still would be on his record though. If he gets jail time though, he can be charged with UA. Beyond that, there are certainly parts of the UCMJ that would allow for him to be charged here, but they are a bit iffy.

 

[pamak]

Blacks are less likely to be killed than whites, if you look at deaths compared to police encounters. That is what the numbers show.

Why do not you actually quote the numbers or the link? And the issue is not just the raw number but the per capita ones.

 

[MSgt]

Combative encounters vs. Complying encounters?

I'd like to see that stats on it.

So, now we are defining the encounters in order to avoid the simple truth.

How much more compliant does a man in handcuffs have to be?
How about a guy who gets shot because the cop of 26 years thought she was holding taser?
How about the woman who was shot in her own apartment because the cop entered the wrong place?

And so on. Cops clearly lack basic and annual training, which is why they default to their sensibilities of the world instead of what is supposed to be professionalism. In the meantime, they get millions of dollars to buy military grade weaponry and other toys.

I hate Islmasists. Doesn't give me the right to default to fear and start yanking on triggers. I'd be Court Martialed. <---- There's that difference between the actual military and a bunch of civilian cops who like to think that they are in a warzone on American streets against a local citizen enemy. Far too many see black and think threat. This is why they are disproportionately killed.

 

[MSgt]

What is also interesting is that the encountered Black victims were more likely to be unarmed

From your link

Most victims were reported to be armed (83%); however, black victims were more likely to be unarmed (14.8%) than white (9.4%)

It remind me the statistics of the NY stop and frisk policy where it was also less likely for Blacks who were stopped to have on them illegal guns, This can happen when cops make decisions based not on reasonable suspicion but based on racial profiling,

I know. No conservative seems to care. They just refuse to see this. I don't get it. It's like they have tied their soul so tightly to right-wing propaganda that any sense of acknowledgment about a simple truth is just too damaging to their blind loyalty.

 

[RetiredUSN]

So, now we are defining the encounters in order to avoid the simple truth.

How much more compliant does a man in handcuffs have to be?
How about a guy who gets shot because the cop of 26 years thought she was holding taser?
How about the woman who was shot in her own apartment because the cop entered the wrong place?

And so on. Cops clearly lack basic and annual training, which is why they default to their sensibilities of the world instead of what is supposed to be professionalism. In the meantime, they get millions of dollars to buy military grade weaponry and other toys.

I hate Islmasists. Doesn't give me the right to default to fear and start yanking on triggers. I'd be Court Martialed. <---- There's that difference between the actual military and a bunch of civilian cops who like to think that they are in a warzone on American streets against a local citizen enemy. Far too many see black and think threat. This is why they are disproportionately killed.

I don't care about your knee jerk ranting or your BS rhetoric.

Again I am asking you how many encounters that you mentioned were........................... compliant vs. combative?

You don't have the answer, do you?

 

[MSgt]

Blacks are less likely to be killed than whites, if you look at deaths compared to police encounters. That is what the numbers show.

No, the numbers show that blacks are disproportionately killed more than whites. Again....

Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites. Most victims were reported to be armed (83%); however, black victims were more likely to be unarmed (14.8%) than white (9.4%) or Hispanic (5.8%) victims.

And From Statista:

Sadly, the trend of fatal police shootings in the United States seems to only be increasing, with a total 213 civilians having been shot, 30 of whom were Black, in the first three months of 2021. In 2020, there were 1,021 fatal police shootings, and in 2019 there were 999 fatal shootings. Additionally, the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 35 fatal shootings per million of the population as of March 2021.


At this point, you are just lying about the information that is clearly presented. You chose to misrepresent. Why? What does this truth do to offend you people so greatly?

 

[MSgt]

I don't care about your knee jerk ranting or your BS rhetoric.

Again I am asking you how many encounters that you mentioned were........................... compliant vs. combative?

You don't have the answer, do you?

I don't know if anybody has the exact answer to such a senseless question, if such a thing can ever be gotten, or if it even matters. Why don't we take a look at how many were chewing gum?

I also don't see how this excuses what you are defending as professionalism among our police force. I would think that a Navy man would demand better than the trash that is constantly making headlines.

 

[pamak]

I don't care about your knee jerk ranting or your BS rhetoric.

Again I am asking you how many encounters that you mentioned were........................... compliant vs. combative?

You don't have the answer, do you?

The number of encounters is not important. If cops use racial profiling that disproportionately targets innocent blacks and incompetency among cops results in 3 deaths out of 100 encounters it does not make it better compared to a situation where cops have 10 encounters with dangerous white criminals and kill 4 of them.
The more important thing is to see the characteristics of the group that was targeted and see how many among them were posing a real threat and how many were not.

 

[RetiredUSN]

I don't know if anybody has the exact answer to such a senseless question, if such a thing can ever be gotten, or if it even matters. Why don't we take a look at how many were chewing gum?

I also don't see how this excuses what you are defending as professionalism among our police force. I would think that a Navy man would demand better than the trash that is constantly making headlines.

Combative vs. Compliant encounters with the police make a huge difference on outcomes.

Don't even try to pretend that it doesn't make a difference.