More Hope For A Negotiated Settlement To End The War In Ukraine

[oneworld2]

According to the Financial Times, a 15-point plan to end the fighting has been drawn up.

This includes a ceasefire and a Russian withdrawal, with Kyiv having to accept neutrality and curbs on its armed forces.

Citing three sources involved in the negotiations, the FT said Ukraine would have to give up its bid to join NATO - something Mr Zelenskyy has already hinted at.

Ukraine war: Reports '15-point' peace deal being 'seriously discussed' as Putin says he's 'ready to talk'

Sergei Lavrov said some formulations for an agreement are near completion, with neutral status for Kyiv under "serious" consideration.

news.sky.com

Let's hope they can thrash things out and end the war.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

I don’t see Ukraine accepting a curbing of its armed forces. Agreeing to neutrality is probably on the table though.

 

[Mr Person]

Anything Russia gets in negotiation is extortion, paid because our geopolitical interests do not extend to engaging in hot war with Russia for a non-NATO member.

 

[Chomsky]

Ukraine war: Reports '15-point' peace deal being 'seriously discussed' as Putin says he's 'ready to talk'

Sergei Lavrov said some formulations for an agreement are near completion, with neutral status for Kyiv under "serious" consideration.

news.sky.com

Let's hope they can thrash things out and end the war.

If this goes anywhere it's because NATO and The U.S. came together, flooding Ukraine with enough weaponry, communications, and technology, to stymie Putin to the point he now fears Ukraine & the West may turn him back & keep going!

Putin only understands strength & power!

 

[lwf]

Anything Russia gets in negotiation is extortion, paid because our geopolitical interests do not extend to engaging in hot war with Russia for a non-NATO member.

And would be agreed upon at the point of a gun, making any agreement signed void as far as I'm concerned. Zelensky ought to swear Ukraine will never join NATO, sign a treaty promising such, get Russia to remove their troops, and then backchannel like crazy for expedited NATO membership ASAP. **** any agreement he makes with Putin or Russia.

 

[oneworld2]

If this goes anywhere it's because NATO and The U.S. came together, flooding Ukraine with enough weaponry, communications, and technology, to stymie Putin to the point he now fears Ukraine & the West may turn him back & keep going!

Putin only understands strength & power!

The fear I have is that the US doesn't want this war to end and will keep adding fuel to the fire in a bid to keep it ongoing

" Keep going"? to where exactly?

 

[craig]

The fear I have is that the US doesn't want this war to end and will keep adding fuel to the fire in a bid to keep it ongoing

" Keep going"? to where exactly?

Putin (and Russia) are now in a trap. There is no way they can win. They can continue to destroy Ukraine and end all hope that Russia will be able to regain any legitimacy among civilized nations for generations. Russia will become a client state of China with the standard of living of North Korea. Or they can depose Putin, give up their nuclear arsenal, and begin progress to become a normal democratic European country.

 

[Mach]

The fear I have is that the US doesn't want this war to end and will keep adding fuel to the fire in a bid to keep it ongoing
" Keep going"? to where exactly?

Why do you fear that and not Putin's invasion of Ukraine?
Or Putin's bombing of civilian areas intentionally?
Or when Putin stops the war he started?

We all know why you never focus on those things....

 

[noonereal]

I don’t see Ukraine accepting a curbing of its armed forces. Agreeing to neutrality is probably on the table though.

They need to agree, get Russian troops the hell out and then do what they feel they need to do.

 

[maxparrish]

At the moment Ukraine is holding its own, and then some. It's advantages are in the medium term, when sanctions really bite hard and Ukraine gets improved weapons. In the long term its difficult to predict. Russia may run out of steam in less than a week, but it is also shipping in Syrians and other mercenaries, stripping is Ossian forces and bringing them in... perhaps as many as 100 per day (or more). In 20 or 30 days, things may look quite different.

Whatever chance Ukraine has it is imperative that Americans and western peoples keep pressure on their respective governments to do more as quickly as possible. They must kill as many Russian soldiers as possible, to gain an advantage before a deal is agreed to gives Ukraine negotiating leverage.

 

[lemmiwinx]

At the moment Ukraine is holding its own, and then some. It's advantages are in the medium term, when sanctions really bite hard and Ukraine gets improved weapons. In the long term its difficult to predict. Russia may run out of steam in less than a week, but it is also shipping in Syrians and other mercenaries... perhaps as many as 100 per day (or more). In 20 or 30 days, things may look quite different.

Whatever chance Ukraine has it is imperative that Americans and western peoples keep pressure on their respective governments to do more as quickly as possible. To gain an advantage before a deal is agreed to gives Ukraine negotiating leverage.

Putin has stepped in it and he knows it. Most likely he'll go full scorched earth now rather than seek any kind of agreement. Such is life and pity his many victims to come.

 

[Ethel2]

And would be agreed upon at the point of a gun, making any agreement signed void as far as I'm concerned. Zelensky ought to swear Ukraine will never join NATO, sign a treaty promising such, get Russia to remove their troops, and then backchannel like crazy for expedited NATO membership ASAP. **** any agreement he makes with Putin or Russia.

I agree. Tell the Russians what they want to hear. Then rebuild your military and quietly join NATO then tell Putin you changed your mind .

 

[noonereal]

Putin has stepped in it and he knows it. Most likely he'll go full scorched earth now rather than seek any kind of agreement. Such is life and pity his many victims to come.

Putin is a risk taker. He may well hit so hard it shoes the world and dare anyone to strike back.

It would fit his personality. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Fledermaus]

The fear I have is that the US doesn't want this war to end and will keep adding fuel to the fire in a bid to keep it ongoing

" Keep going"? to where exactly?

🤣

 

[oneworld2]

Putin (and Russia) are now in a trap. There is no way they can win. They can continue to destroy Ukraine and end all hope that Russia will be able to regain any legitimacy among civilized nations for generations. Russia will become a client state of China with the standard of living of North Korea. Or they can depose Putin, give up their nuclear arsenal, and begin progress to become a normal democratic European country.

They knew there was no way they could " win" in Ukraine from a military perspective. Did you win in the illegal wars you fought against Iraq and Afghanistan? Nope.

So you expect Russia to now give up its nukes unilaterally lol and become one of the " normal democratic European countries" who have engaged in illegal wars all over the world and destroyed entire countries themselves?

You might want to step out of that western centric bubble you inhabit it is preventing you from seeing in 20 20

 

[oneworld2]

Why do you fear that and not Putin's invasion of Ukraine?

Because Putins invasion, as illegal and horrific as it is, is directed at one nation on it's border who has become a defacto NATO member , joining a military alliance that has always had Russia as its enemy. The reality is that Ukraine V Russia doesn't really present the threat of a nuclear exchange whereas a NATO Russia one does

Or Putin's bombing of civilian areas intentionally?

See above

Or when Putin stops the war he started?

Why would I fear an end to the war. Evidently you don't read the posts you choose to reply to. That;s understandable and explains a lot about your postings themselves

We all know why you never focus on those things....

" We " are you having an episode?

You " know" nothing because you don't read other peoples posts nor understand that your accusations are built on a McCarthyist like hysteria not facts

 

[Fledermaus]

They knew there was no way they could " win" in Ukraine from a military perspective. Did you win in the illegal wars you fought against Iraq and Afghanistan? Nope.

So you expect Russia to now give up its nukes unilaterally lol and become one of the " normal democratic European countries" who have engaged in illegal wars all over the world and destroyed entire countries themselves?

You might want to step out of that western centric bubble you inhabit it is preventing you from seeing in 20 20

Illegal wars... Illegal wars.....

Soviet style Whataboutism in a thread about the illegal war waged by Russia on Ukraine

 

[Fledermaus]

Because Putins invasion, as illegal and horrific as it is, is directed at one nation on it's border who has become a defacto NATO member , joining a military alliance that has always had Russia as its enemy. The reality is that Ukraine V Russia doesn't really present the threat of a nuclear exchange whereas a NATO Russia one does
Q
See above

Why would I fear an end to the war. Evidently you don't read the posts you choose to reply to. That;s understandable and explains a lot about your postings themselves

" We " are you having an episode?

You " know" nothing because you don't read other peoples posts nor understand that your accusations are built on a McCarthyist like hysteria not facts

Wait. You said borders didn't matter just yesterday.

Now borders matter?

 

[ThirdTerm]

Sergei Lavrov said that “absolutely specific wordings” were “close to being agreed” in the negotiations. Zelenskyy wised up and finally acknowledged that Ukraine is unlikely to realize its goal of joining NATO. Putin has long depicted Ukraine’s NATO aspirations as a threat to Russia. Russia also softened its stance on the peace deal because the high level of Russian casualties and it does not seek Ukraine's demilitalization anymore. The fourth Russian general was killed near Mariupol in a targeted assassination.

War in Ukraine: Fourth Russian general killed - Zelensky

The news raises questions over why senior Russian officers are getting so close to the fighting.

www.bbc.com

 

[Antiwar]

They knew there was no way they could " win" in Ukraine from a military perspective. Did you win in the illegal wars you fought against Iraq and Afghanistan? Nope.

So you expect Russia to now give up its nukes unilaterally lol and become one of the " normal democratic European countries" who have engaged in illegal wars all over the world and destroyed entire countries themselves?

You might want to step out of that western centric bubble you inhabit it is preventing you from seeing in 20 20

I think the bubble they're in is 1950, or further back in time.

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

There is no negotiations with terrorists, get the **** our of Ukraine and **** off is the only negotiation, since Ukraine didn't do anything to Russia accept not suck Putin's dick

And also, Russia must pay Ukraine to fix the damage they caused.

 

[craig]

They knew there was no way they could " win" in Ukraine from a military perspective. Did you win in the illegal wars you fought against Iraq and Afghanistan? Nope.

So you expect Russia to now give up its nukes unilaterally lol and become one of the " normal democratic European countries" who have engaged in illegal wars all over the world and destroyed entire countries themselves?

You might want to step out of that western centric bubble you inhabit it is preventing you from seeing in 20 20

Then you see Russia's decline into a North Korea like satellite of China as inevitable? Because the West will not forgive Putin.

 

[oneworld2]

I think the bubble they're in is 1950, or further back in time.

It is like that imo

The Cold War mentality is alive and kicking here at debate politics, much to its ,and the ones that cannot let go of it , detriment

 

[Antiwar]

There is no negotiations with terrorists, get the **** our of Ukraine and **** off is the only negotiation, since Ukraine didn't do anything to Russia accept not suck Putin's dick

And also, Russia must pay Ukraine to fix the damage they caused.

I used to think your commentary was pretty good.

 

[Fledermaus]

It is like that imo

The Cold War mentality is alive and kicking here at debate politics, much to its ,and the ones that cannot let go of it , detriment

Soviet style Whataboutism and propaganda is alive and kicking.