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More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

TurtleDude said:
BS-I am pro choice and have reservations about the DP but I am willing to kill if I have to and have in the past. a convict duly convicted of a capital crime is not innocent life. Its entirely possible to be pro death penalty and anti abortion
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Not without being hypocritical it isn't.
 
TurtleDude said:
BS-I am pro choice and have reservations about the DP but I am willing to kill if I have to and have in the past. a convict duly convicted of a capital crime is not innocent life. Its entirely possible to be pro death penalty and anti abortion
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This assumes the verdict is correct, whihc we know has not always been the case. So, if you wrongly kill an innocnet person, as a matter of flaws in the system, how many mistakes are acceptable before you oppose the use?
 
Boo Radley said:
This assumes the verdict is correct, whihc we know has not always been the case. So, if you wrongly kill an innocnet person, as a matter of flaws in the system, how many mistakes are acceptable before you oppose the use?
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Don't pay attention to the little things, like the details.......
 
disneydude said:
Funny...its worked great in this country for years. It wasn't until you had the great Reagan corporate welfare handout and the Bush deregulation that this country started to really struggle.

Remember when people could actually buy a home in this country? Remember when it was a luxury for both parents to work, not a necessity?

Don't know how old you are....but it was before Reagan destroyed our manufacturing base and the Reagan/Bush policies rewarded compnaies for shipping good paying goods overseas.
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Yeah, life in the U.S. under Carter was a dream. Speaking of owning a home, almost no one could afford one during the Carter years because the interest rate was over 15%. I was able to buy my first house after Reagan's policies finally made home ownership possible.

You really believe lower taxes don't increase tax revenues??? It was a fact under Reagan:

taxcuts2002.ashx.jpg
 
TurtleDude said:
BS-I am pro choice and have reservations about the DP but I am willing to kill if I have to and have in the past. a convict duly convicted of a capital crime is not innocent life. Its entirely possible to be pro death penalty and anti abortion
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Absolutely.

The baby-killers want to pretend that convicted murders didn't earn their fate, and yet they want to allow the execution of millions of babies who haven't committed a crime or been subjected to a trial and conviction.

Yet they call the people who don't want babies murdered the hypocrites.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Absolutely.

The baby-killers want to pretend that convicted murders didn't earn their fate, and yet they want to allow the execution of millions of babies who haven't committed a crime or been subjected to a trial and conviction.

Yet they call the people who don't want babies murdered the hypocrites.
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There are lot's of hypocrites in the world, and they can be found in all political stripes. But, if you're pro life, you should be against both. If you feel a life can be justifiably taken, then it's all about the justification. That opens the door for arguments other than crminals.

Besides, there's still the real possibility we'll kill someone who wasn't actually guilty. Keep that in mind.
 
Boo Radley said:
There are lot's of hypocrites in the world, and they can be found in all political stripes. But, if you're pro life, you should be against both. If you feel a life can be justifiably taken, then it's all about the justification. That opens the door for arguments other than crminals.

Besides, there's still the real possibility we'll kill someone who wasn't actually guilty. Keep that in mind.
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So you don't believe in self-defense ?? You wouldn't kill someone that was about to kill you or a loved one ??
 
Gill said:
So you don't believe in self-defense ?? You wouldn't kill someone that was about to kill you or a loved one ??
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You're really making a leap here. No where have I expressed MY beliefs. But if you hold a belief, that life should not be taken, then you hold it and live by it, or admit you were weak and unable to do so. I have no problem admitting my human fralities.

However, if you say we can kill, it just depends on the reasoning we use, then the debate is what reasoning works for you. And that makes you not PRO-LIFE, but someone who will take a life is the reasoning is good enough for you. That opens the door to argue there is might be a reson to end ANY life, if I can argue a justification.

Follow me?
 
Boo Radley said:
You're really making a leap here. No where have I expressed MY beliefs. But if you hold a belief, that life should not be taken, then you hold it and live by it, or admit you were weak and unable to do so. I have no problem admitting my human fralities.

However, if you say we can kill, it just depends on the reasoning we use, then the debate is what reasoning works for you. And that makes you not PRO-LIFE, but someone who will take a life is the reasoning is good enough for you. That opens the door to argue there is might be a reson to end ANY life, if I can argue a justification.

Follow me?
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You are right... I am not pro-life. Never have been. So there is no hypocrisy on my part.
 
zimmer said:
They've backed the Obama-Pelosi-Reid Weapons of Economic Destruction, and now think the people are stupid enough to buy this?
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Well, are they not stupid enough? We seem to witness stupidity over and over. You vote for the guy you dislike the least. In the end, the wealthy fund campaigns. The Middle Class votes. With both at odds, politicians are always going to lean towards the cash cow. In other words, the average Middle Class American can vote for whatever change he/she wants, but the politician they elect belongs to those who fund the campaign. Power is in the check book, not the every other year 10 second vote.
 
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Gill said:
You are right... I am not pro-life. Never have been. So there is no hypocrisy on my part.
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Then no one was talking to you, right? ;)
 
Gill said:
Ahh, so I'm not allowed to voice my opinion??? Got it. :roll:
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No, didn't say that. Just noting you weren't the person being counted as hypocritical on this issue. However, I suspect most of us are hypocritical somewhere in our lives. ;)
 
Boo Radley said:
When would be the right time to raise taxes? There is no evidence that not raising them will help jobs. In fact, someone has a link to a study showing that it wouldn't. But not taxing will add to the debt. So, logically, based on this, what should we do? How much do we really care about the deficit?
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Government cash infusion into companies doesn't guarantee more jobs. That decision has to be made by the company brass. New cash would probably be used to pay pressing bills.

ricksfolly
 
BCR said:
14 trillion dollars now, right? We can't have our cake and eat it to...we are gonna have to start forking out the dough eventually.
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Not at all. FY2011 can be balanced w/o a single tax increase.
 
Gill said:
Yeah, life in the U.S. under Carter was a dream. Speaking of owning a home, almost no one could afford one during the Carter years because the interest rate was over 15%. I was able to buy my first house after Reagan's policies finally made home ownership possible.

You really believe lower taxes don't increase tax revenues??? It was a fact under Reagan:

View attachment 67112373
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Yep, Carter's years of Stagflation were great for those who had rental properties. They'd be great now too, except Obama has made the market so muddy you don't know what the hell is going to happen.

Now's the time to buy if you have a secure job, but going beyond that is a tough call... like most businesses today... you just don't know what hair brain scheme Obama is going to pop out next.

Should the R's win both chambers, we'll have a little clearer view of the future.

.
 
zimmer said:
Yep, Carter's years of Stagflation were great for those who had rental properties. They'd be great now too, except Obama has made the market so muddy you don't know what the hell is going to happen.

Now's the time to buy if you have a secure job, but going beyond that is a tough call... like most businesses today... you just don't know what hair brain scheme Obama is going to pop out next.

Should the R's win both chambers, we'll have a little clearer view of the future.

.
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Bingo !! You nailed it. Businesses are not spending money now or hiring because they are afraid of what's around the corner. With this administration, who knows what they'll come up with next.

We are just now seeing some of the garbage coming from the health care reform bill. When more of it comes to light, more and more people will start screaming. People have no idea how much this is going to cost them out-of-pocket.

Between health care reform and new taxes, businesses are sitting on their money. They saw what Ford did a few years ago and are doing the same thing.
 
ricksfolly said:
Government cash infusion into companies doesn't guarantee more jobs. That decision has to be made by the company brass. New cash would probably be used to pay pressing bills.

ricksfolly
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or not. Saved maybe. Add to profit. We can't really know without going in and looking at each company.

Still, the question I asked is relevent: How much do we really care about the deficit?
 
Boo Radley said:
When would be the right time to raise taxes? There is no evidence that not raising them will help jobs. In fact, someone has a link to a study showing that it wouldn't. But not taxing will add to the debt. So, logically, based on this, what should we do? How much do we really care about the deficit?
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There is no right time to raise taxes. We are way overtaxed.

Reducing taxes and letting people keep their money will generate more government revenue... because more people will be working. Companies will feel better about hiring. When that happens, the wages will increase as competition for workers increases, and added to that... people with money (profit) will take risk... creating more jobs.

Then the goverment pig should be taken to the slaughter house. What should come out is bones.

Then we'd be fine. Smaller pig, lower taxes... prosperous nation... and the means to reduce our debts.

.
 
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zimmer said:
There is no right time to raise taxes. We are way overtaxed.

Reducing taxes and letting people keep their money will generate more government revenue... because more people will be working. Companies will feel better about hiring. When that happens, the wages will increase as competition for workers increases, and added to that... people with money (profit) will take risk... creating more jobs.

Then the goverment pig should be taken to the slaughter house. What should come out is bones.

Then we'd be fine. Smaller pig, lower taxes... prosperous nation... and the means to reduce our debts.

.
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That's a rather subjective standard. Who decides what is overtax and undertaxed? What objective standard do you use?

BTW, we are the government. Just thought you should know. ;)
 
Some times there are some really misguided and out right goofy posts.

For those who want to punish the so-called rich answer me this. How many jobs are created by people who make less than $250,000 a year?

I can tell you right now that number is damn few to none.

I has been proven in the past that reducing spending and taxes creates not only more jobs but increases taxes.

Don't believe me read about it: Tax Cuts Increase Federal Revenues | The Heritage Foundation
 
Boo Radley said:
That's a rather subjective standard. Who decides what is overtax and undertaxed? What objective standard do you use?

BTW, we are the government. Just thought you should know. ;)
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We are "the government" in name only, and even that has become laughable.

No government should take more than ~30% of any individuals income, regardless of how wealthy/poor you are. More than that would be abuse, in my opinion.

America became wealthy and powerful because we had a philosophy that you sink or swim based on your own input, the more we lean towards "the government being the solution" the further we will drift from the core philosophy that made us powerful.

This is why the republicans will always be a political force, they preach that mantra. It is also why so many people subtly don't trust the democrats (right or wrong, is what it is).
 
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SingleCellOrganism said:
We are "the government" in name only, and even that has become laughable.

No government should take more than ~30% of any individuals income, regardless of how wealthy/poor you are. More than that would be abuse, in my opinion.
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We hold the power to over throw the government every election cycle. As long as that is true, we are the government and get exactly what we choose to have. Even not voting is part of that choice. We only have ourselfs to blame. We are the government.
 
BCR said:
14 trillion dollars now, right? We can't have our cake and eat it to...we are gonna have to start forking out the dough eventually.
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Nope... Just get the Fed reserve bank to print more money, the same way they erase the deficit every year...

ricksfolly
 
Councilman said:
Some times there are some really misguided and out right goofy posts.

For those who want to punish the so-called rich answer me this. How many jobs are created by people who make less than $250,000 a year?

I can tell you right now that number is damn few to none.

I has been proven in the past that reducing spending and taxes creates not only more jobs but increases taxes.

Don't believe me read about it: Tax Cuts Increase Federal Revenues | The Heritage Foundation
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We have another study elsewhere that shows the opposite. So, it is not at all settled. And if you look at it historically, you can chart that taxes have had almost no effect on either jobs or the economy. These things too have been posted before on these threads.

Also, no none has said anything about punishing anyone. Frankly, no one will suffer let alone be punished by return to the previous tax rate. The cuts did not produce jobs, as we have lost jobs with the cuts. So, there is little reason to fear a return to the previous tax rate.
 
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