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Monitors and dismissal

Hoot

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For those of you who do not know, the "monitors" have taken it upon themselves to suspend one of our members for one week.

I don't care whether this person leaned right or left, but personally, I found nothing that was typed to warrant dismissal by this self-appointed group of monitors.

After all, we didn't elect them did we? Did I miss a vote somewhere along the line of who gets to monitor our statements in these forums?

Granted, we have the "basement' for outright profanity and personal attacks, but frankly, I'm dismayed at what I feel is an unwarranted dismissal?!

Perhaps the monitors need a monitor?

Granted, decorum must be maintained to keep this forum an enjoyable experience, but indiscriminate dismissal is not the answer.

Perhaps some of these monitors, who live online 24/7, need to take a step back and regain some perspective on just what objectionable material means? Because everyone has been guilty of this and everyone has different standards.

Thank you for allowing me to express my views.

(...psst...I had to throw that last sentence in there to suck up to the monitors, so they wouldn't kick me off the board. LOL J/K)
 

vergiss

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*runs to the fallout shelter*
 

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[mod mode]
Moved from polls to here for topical reasons and there was no poll.
[/mod mode]

I can assure you that suspensions and bans are never ever done on *in the fly* or in a biased nature. As lead moderator, owner and admin; I can't stand specific rules. I abhore suspensions and bans. Per our rules we do not have to explain why we ever ban or take action on anyone, but in this case I will lightly touch it.

The person you are refering has a *very* long record of dissonance within the forum. Many many of his/her posts have become attacking rather than discussion or debate. In this case, it is very true that it would be hard to find a singular thread or post that would warrant this significant action. But, every mod action has been archived in the mod forum. Everything has a limit, and his/her limit was reached.

"Granted, decorum must be maintained to keep this forum an enjoyable experience, but indiscriminate dismissal is not the answer."


You could simply not be more correct. This action was not without merit, and not without substantial warnings. This action was discussed and *debated* by our mod team before final action was taken.

"Perhaps some of these monitors, who live online 24/7, need to take a step back and regain some perspective on just what objectionable material means? Because everyone has been guilty of this and everyone has different standards."

Absolutely! We try our best to make every mod action as objective as possible. Before this specific action; warnings and personal requests were made specifically by mulitple parties.
 
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tecoyah

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vauge said:
[mod mode]
Moved from polls to here for topical reasons and there was no poll.
[/mod mode]

I can assure you that suspensions and bans are never ever done on *in the fly* or in a biased nature. As lead moderator, owner and admin; I can't stand specific rules. I abhore suspensions and bans - hard to believe yet it is very true. Per our rules we do not have to explain why we ever ban or take action on anyone, but in this case I will lightly touch it.

The person you are refering has a *very* long record of dissonance within the forum. Many many of his/her posts have become attacking rather than discussion or debate. In this case, it is very true that it would be hard to find a singular thread or post that would warrant this significant action. But, every mod action has been archived in the mod forum. Everything has a limit, and his/her limit was reached.

"Granted, decorum must be maintained to keep this forum an enjoyable experience, but indiscriminate dismissal is not the answer."


You could simply not be more correct. This action was not without merit, and not without substantial warnings. This action was discussed and *debated* by our mod team before final action was taken.

"Perhaps some of these monitors, who live online 24/7, need to take a step back and regain some perspective on just what objectionable material means? Because everyone has been guilty of this and everyone has different standards."

Absolutely! We try our best to make every mod action as objective as possible. Before this specific action; warnings and personal requests were made specifically by mulitple parties.

Well put.....I would also point out that there are usually deleted posts in these forums that only Mods will ever see....just a heads up to members.
 

AlbqOwl

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Speaking as a relative newcomer to Debate Politics, I can say I have much appreciated a higher level of discourse here than what you find on most of these boards. Even the ones who would clearly love to take me down with a barrage of profanity, ad hominems, and personal defamation will pull their punches to some degree, and while even pulled punches are not helpful to intelligent debate, this does allow discussions to move forward.

Like Vauge, I deplore petty rules, but if the moderators here err, it is generally on the side of leniency rather than nitpicking. I don't agree with every decision the mods make, but then it isn't my board and I am a guest here, so I don't get to make the rules. Having said that, it seems that the administration bends over backwards to accommodate member suggestions as much as possible. And given the rarity of suspensions or banning, I think the mods are probably doing as well as anybody could do in such a subjecive environment.
 

Hoot

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Thanks for the reply, Vague.

I'd be interested to know the political leanings of the mods.

You may not believe this is applicable, but I believe it is.

I don't expect names, but if there are 10 mods, perhaps 6 lean to the right, with 4 leaning left? You know...that sort of thing.

To be honest, the only ones in these forums who seems to remain bipartisan and impartial are Simon and Pacridge...just my own personal opinion.

So....I guess it's ok if I commit libel and call Clinton a rapist, or Bush a liar, or Cindy Sheehan a traitor, or Delay a crook...as long as I don't direct personal attacks to members of this forum?
 

aps

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Hoot said:
Thanks for the reply, Vague.

I'd be interested to know the political leanings of the mods.

You may not believe this is applicable, but I believe it is.

I don't expect names, but if there are 10 mods, perhaps 6 lean to the right, with 4 leaning left? You know...that sort of thing.

To be honest, the only ones in these forums who seems to remain bipartisan and impartial are Simon and Pacridge...just my own personal opinion.

So....I guess it's ok if I commit libel and call Clinton a rapist, or Bush a liar, or Cindy Sheehan a traitor, or Delay a crook...as long as I don't direct personal attacks to members of this forum?
Hey Hoot, if you look at their colors, it tells you which way the moderator leans. Scroll down and you will see that the message board tells you what each color means.
 

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Hoot said:
Thanks for the reply, Vague.

I'd be interested to know the political leanings of the mods.

You may not believe this is applicable, but I believe it is.

I don't expect names, but if there are 10 mods, perhaps 6 lean to the right, with 4 leaning left? You know...that sort of thing.

To be honest, the only ones in these forums who seems to remain bipartisan and impartial are Simon and Pacridge...just my own personal opinion.

So....I guess it's ok if I commit libel and call Clinton a rapist, or Bush a liar, or Cindy Sheehan a traitor, or Delay a crook...as long as I don't direct personal attacks to members of this forum?
Here is "Veiw Forum Leaders" from the front page. It has been updated to reflect the political affiliated or non-affiliated mods. We actually swing more unaffiliated and left.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showgroups.php

Actually we could care less if someone states the claims you presented - libel "maybe", but they are against folks that are in the lime light and not members here. It is silly partisan politics and makes one lacking as far as debate quality, but they are not bannable offenses. Against another member outside the basement is an entirely different story.
 

Hoot

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I appreciate all the replies, and the frankness from everyone, and you're all quite right, I'm sure there is much that happened that I'm not aware of.

In this area, I respect and support the decision.

One of the reasons I left AOHell was because of all the message board Hitlers that seemed to take it upon themselves to decide what was appropriate behavior. I always tried to attack the opinion, or ideas, and not the individual, yet I was forced to complain to higher-ups at AOL for partisan banning and deleting of posts.

Gee...I hope this doesn't mean I'm on the "list" now? Haha!

Take care everyone...and If I don't get back here much this week, Merry Christmas and Happy New year to all...and thanks for all the work that goes into making this board such an educational and enjoyable experience.

Sincerely,

Hoot
 

Hoot

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It's been over a week now, and I haven't been back here much because of the holidays...it's one of the busiest times of the year with my job, anyway....

I don't see any posts from 26X's, Navy pride, and KC Conservative.

For those of you that may not know, they were banned for a week for making personal attacks, within their debate style, against other members.

So...I'm afraid we've quite possibly lost 3 entertaining posters...regardless of your political persuasion, this is a loss for this site.

There must be another solution? Perhaps if the one who is being personally attacked does not take any offense or lodge any complaints, then the moderators should not take any extreme action? And stay out of it?

In the past, Stinger and I had some robust arguments where we both lost a bit of control and typed things that could be construed as personal insults, however, I would never think of fileing a complaint and asking for a week of banning!?

Also...I believe that anyone in this membership who makes a habit of running home to Mommy and complaining about someone's comments should go to the top of the potential ban list. Grow up or get off the debate board.

As long as outright cursing..4 letter words...etc..are not involved, and as long as the one who is attacked files no complaint, I do not believe the mods should get involved.

If your sensibilities are offended so easily, then you shouldn't be on a debate site.
 

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Hoot said:
It's been over a week now, and I haven't been back here much because of the holidays...it's one of the busiest times of the year with my job, anyway....

I don't see any posts from 26X's, Navy pride, and KC Conservative.
26 X Champs and Navy Pride are back. One of the reasons why we mave have not seen them in expected threads is because of an issue on the forum that accidently deleted their Subscribed threads. I have made a change in the code so that this does not happen again. It sux that it happened and was truely an accident. Unfortunatly, it is not possible to retrieve their list.

They may be lookin for their fav threads! I know I would be lost without my subscribed threads list.

KCConservative's ban is still active as of today.
 

tecoyah

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Hoot said:
It's been over a week now, and I haven't been back here much because of the holidays...it's one of the busiest times of the year with my job, anyway....

I don't see any posts from 26X's, Navy pride, and KC Conservative.

For those of you that may not know, they were banned for a week for making personal attacks, within their debate style, against other members.

So...I'm afraid we've quite possibly lost 3 entertaining posters...regardless of your political persuasion, this is a loss for this site.

There must be another solution? Perhaps if the one who is being personally attacked does not take any offense or lodge any complaints, then the moderators should not take any extreme action? And stay out of it?

In the past, Stinger and I had some robust arguments where we both lost a bit of control and typed things that could be construed as personal insults, however, I would never think of fileing a complaint and asking for a week of banning!?

Also...I believe that anyone in this membership who makes a habit of running home to Mommy and complaining about someone's comments should go to the top of the potential ban list. Grow up or get off the debate board.

As long as outright cursing..4 letter words...etc..are not involved, and as long as the one who is attacked files no complaint, I do not believe the mods should get involved.

If your sensibilities are offended so easily, then you shouldn't be on a debate site.

If indeed...you feel insults are an inherent part of debate, there are several Dozen sites that certainly can fill the criteria you require. This one has managed not to become a flamefest primarily due to the moderation of its membership. If for some reason you feel these Temp Bans were inappropriate....welcome to the real world Neo. Having some experience in this regard I actually find the Moderation here quite lenient, and VERY condusive to mature debate.

It takes much work to stabalize a Politics forum.....you should try it sometime.
 

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tecoyah said:
If indeed...you feel insults are an inherent part of debate, there are several Dozen sites that certainly can fill the criteria you require. This one has managed not to become a flamefest primarily due to the moderation of its membership. If for some reason you feel these Temp Bans were inappropriate....welcome to the real world Neo. Having some experience in this regard I actually find the Moderation here quite lenient, and VERY condusive to mature debate.

It takes much work to stabalize a Politics forum.....you should try it sometime.
I adopted DebatePolitics as my on line home partly because of the quality of debate on some forums and mostly because there is an effort to keep things civil here. The immature know nothings who can't articulate an opinion without being insulting are here as they are everywhere on the internet, but DebatePolitics also is blessed with a number of members who post informed, thoughtful, and well thought out arguments that are much appreciated.

And before somebody points it out, yes I have been provoked into making an uncomplimentary personal observation here and there and will take my lumps for that. I do try very hard to not fall into that trap and I think most of the good debaters on the forum also have good records on that score.

I very much appreciate the mods who come into cool the flames when things get out of hand and the insults start flying. If this board should dissolve into another flame throwing site where intelligent conversation is largely squelched, then I think several members will be gone because it will be like hundreds of others where the kids think personally directed insults are an effective argument. ("Kids" in this reference is not intended to be age specific.)
 

mixedmedia

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AlbqOwl said:
I adopted DebatePolitics as my on line home partly because of the quality of debate on some forums and mostly because there is an effort to keep things civil here. The immature know nothings who can't articulate an opinion without being insulting are here as they are everywhere on the internet, but DebatePolitics also is blessed with a number of members who post informed, thoughtful, and well thought out arguments that are much appreciated.

And before somebody points it out, yes I have been provoked into making an uncomplimentary personal observation here and there and will take my lumps for that. I do try very hard to not fall into that trap and I think most of the good debaters on the forum also have good records on that score.

I very much appreciate the mods who come into cool the flames when things get out of hand and the insults start flying. If this board should dissolve into another flame throwing site where intelligent conversation is largely squelched, then I think several members will be gone because it will be like hundreds of others where the kids think personally directed insults are an effective argument. ("Kids" in this reference is not intended to be age specific.)
I agree with tecoyah and AlbqOwl. There is plenty of leeway afforded to the members of this site when it comes to the "passionate defense" of their positions, but there has to come a time for moderation of some individuals for the sake of the community as a whole. Most especially when the members in question have been warned repeatedly and finally given an ultimatum which is ignored. Otherwise, why have moderators at all?

Personally, insults don't bother me much. I have had all manner of vulgar, crude, insensitive and just plain ignorant barbs thrown my way - but as in "real" life - I always consider the source. For example, enduring the attention of Skilmatic was never anything more than amusing, but if AlbqOwl were to turn hostile on me, that would be something altogether different. But I've yet to be insulted by a member, like AlbqOwl, who brings their civility with them online. Unlike so many who seem to think that the relative anonymity of being online is a free ticket to behave like an ass. I have no problem whatsoever with the occasional pruning of characters who fall into the latter category after repeated attempts to get them to shape up.

I agree that there is a fine line between free speech and censorship being walked here, but in the context of this group, speech is the be all and end all of why we're here. Do the rights of a minority who only wish to disrupt or cannot control their impulses to personally attack - repeatedly - supercede the majority's right to free and open speech? I can say for myself, there have been many times here that I have chosen not to "speak" when I desired to because of the tone already established on the thread by folks who have been warned and/or banned in recent weeks. There is a place online for everyone. DP has no imperative to offer a permanent home to everyone, in my opinion. Everyone is given ample opportunity to apply though.
 

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The Moderator Team here at Debate Politics encompasses the entire political spectrum. As noted previously, all logged-on Moderators are deliniated in bold type and color-coded according to political stance. Moderator political affiliation is visibly displayed on both the DP home page and on the individual posts of every Moderator.

One good rule of thumb is to debate the topic rather than the contributors. Personal attacks and innuendo never clarify a subject and give an impression of a lack of knowledge and depth.

You must also remember that at any given time, Debate Politics has a number of guest visitors. For our community to grow, it is very important to impart an ambiance of a 'vigorous' yet 'civil' debate forum.

Rather than meddle, the mission of DP Moderators is primarily to assist the membership in every way possible and to promote community stability and growth. If you ever have questions or concerns about Moderator actions, please bring it to our attention via a private pm. We will always respond to address your concerns to the best of our ability. All member ideas to improve Debate Politics are always welcomed and duly considered by the DP staff. :smile:



 

Hoot

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tecoyah said:
If indeed...you feel insults are an inherent part of debate, there are several Dozen sites that certainly can fill the criteria you require. This one has managed not to become a flamefest primarily due to the moderation of its membership. If for some reason you feel these Temp Bans were inappropriate....welcome to the real world Neo. Having some experience in this regard I actually find the Moderation here quite lenient, and VERY condusive to mature debate.

It takes much work to stabalize a Politics forum.....you should try it sometime.
Neo? I believe at the time you posted this, I have more posts than you, therefore, you are the neo, if anyone!

I demand that this person be banned for this!!! ( LOL...just kidding around with you)

As far as "running a political forum and trying it sometime?"

No thanks...I have a life!

I do agree with you, and overall, I believe the mods are doing an excellent job here, and reading all the comments, I can't argue with a single point being made about keeping this forum an enjoyable place.
 

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I've been hanging here for a while now. Been doing this since Compuserve was all text, went through painful AOL days and back to Compuserve. Then it got out of hand for reasons being discussed here.

There don't need to be alot of rules, but no personal attacks is one that is needed. Also kids and jerks will soon leave if they can't get in and just flame people. It makes people think to have to come up with more creative rebuttle than "Well you're just ugly, a liberal, a conservative, a socialist, a bigot, or whatever, therefore I'm #%%*$# right!". And if that means a suspension after warnings to stop purposeful attacks then do it. If I do it in the heat of the moment a slap on the hand will usually suffice <G>.

That being said it is a powerful tool for moderators, who are also participants, to have and I have seen it abused in forums I have left. And it is usually when there is no explaination, you don't want even the slightest hint that it is was abused and if a moderator uses it he/she should be able to be very specific. I'm sure like most other boards you guys must meet and vote on anything so serious and i certainly differ to your combined judgement. But as I said earlier if it gets abused it can run off your posters and you don't want that, not enforced and the flamers can run everyone off and you don't want that either.

Glad it's you guys and not me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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galenrox said:
yeah dude, we try really hard to make sure we check each other enough to make sure no one abuses their authority.
Like, you and I have gotten in quite a few epic and heated arguments, and if, in one of these situations, you called me a name, I wouldn't moderate that situation, due to the conflict of interest (not neccisarily always the case, but for the most part), and if I called you a name, all you'd have to do is report it, and other mods would evaluate what I said.

I think the main part is people love this place for a reason, and every mod loves this forum fanatically for those same reasons, which is the quality of debate fostered by certain rules that we have, and so it's a big deal to keep the mods in check too, cause the use of moderation to stifle opinions and debate points would only weaken the quality of this forum.
I stay here because there is more civility and less flaming than I have found anywhere else. There are a few good rules and the spirit of them is usually enforced. Evenso, I think anybody who is really thin skinned and easily insulted probably should find something else to do besides participate on a message board. Without benefit of voice inflection, facial expressions, body language, etc., the written word can seem a lot more brutal sometimes than was actually intended by the writer.

Most of us can handle an occasional personal insult and, when it is incidental, I certainly don't bother reporting it and don't expect the mods to do anything about it. Usually a friendly 'mod mode' reminder is sufficient to cool things down when it gets heated. When a member routinely flames however, and especially when a member is stalking and making somebody else's life miserable here, then it has to be dealt with or quality members will in fact leave. It appears the mods are doing a quite good job of dealing with this.

I guess what I'm saying is, kudos to the mods. (Does that sound like sucking up? Oh well.)
 

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Bring back SKILMATIC!
 
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Hoot said:
It's been over a week now, and I haven't been back here much because of the holidays...it's one of the busiest times of the year with my job, anyway....

I don't see any posts from 26X's, Navy pride, and KC Conservative.

For those of you that may not know, they were banned for a week for making personal attacks, within their debate style, against other members.
Actually, I was tossed for copying and pasting one of my posts into multiple threads. There were 6 different threads on the same subject and so I thought I was making life simpler. At least, that is the reason I was given. It was interesting, though, because after I returned, all of those threads had been merged into one. ;)
 
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