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Mohammad Never Existed

Agent Ferris

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Professor Hired for Outreach to Muslims Delivers a Jolt

Islamic Theologian's Theory: It's Likely the Prophet Muhammad Never Existed


Islamic Theologian Says Prophet Muhammad Likely Never Existed - WSJ.com

O.K. we've all heard the claims that Jesus never existed (claims I believe BTW) because there is no contemporary non-Christian source documenting his existence save for the Josephus forgery.

The same is true of Mohammad, there is no non-Muslim primary source documenting his existence. The closest thing so far presented is the writings of Sebeos who was clearly recounting the tales he heard from the Muslims after they conquered Armenia during the Imperialist Expanisionism of the Rashidun Caliphate, he repeated these stories 3 decades after Mohammads death, and his stories match the Muslim narrative to the letter. There is no contemporary visual evidence for the existence of Mohammad as depictions of the human being were banned under Islamic law (how convenient :roll:). Coins with his name struck in them didn't appear until more than 60 years after his supposed death. And the autobiography supposedly written about him was written a century after his death and no copies survive to the present day. And in fact the very name "Mohammad" isn't even a real name it is simply a title meaning "praise worthy," so we are not even told this characters actual name but rather only his title.

If Mohammad actually existed and was such an important figure why was he not recorded by any of the historians in the Byantine or Sassanid Empires?

Given the lack of evidence for his existence I have to chalk Mohammad up to being a fictional character like Achilles or perhaps an Amalgamation of several characters streamlined to fit a narrative and implement a state religion.
 

1069

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This doesn't surprise me in the least.
I wouldn't be surprised if Buddha never existed, either.


Given the lack of evidence for his existence I have to chalk Mohammad up to being a fictional character like Achilles or perhaps an Amalgamation of several characters streamlined to fit a narrative and implement a state religion.


Yeah. I think that's what all of them are.
 

soguks

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to be idiot is easy and free, even you have some degrees. I wonder why 'Some' people in Usa are in race to create new lies about Islam,and to insult Islam. btw, insulting the religion of 1.5 b people is seen 'democracy/freespeech', killing people up to 50-60 in afghanistan is seen 'mistake', practising the religion of Islam is seen 'concession' etc. i did read a book about Nazi's Germany and there were similar approachs to 'inferior' people by 'superior' Germans .
 

digsbe

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Muhammad and Jesus did indeed exist. I believe it's illogical to purport that they are fictional.
 

Agent Ferris

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to be idiot is easy and free, even you have some degrees. I wonder why 'Some' people in Usa are in race to create new lies about Islam,

I'm not lying about anything, there is no evidence compelling enough to bring Mohammad from the realm of mythical figure to historical figure. If he existed why was he not recorded by the Byzantine or Sassanid Empires?

and to insult Islam.

Well my view is that Islam is directly at odds with secular liberalism and an affront to individual liberty and an insult to any thinking person considering that all 5 sects of Islam hold as the only accepted view that homosexuality, apostasy, adultery, and/or premarital sex are not only crimes but capital and/or corporal offenses.

btw, insulting the religion of 1.5 b people is seen 'democracy/freespeech',

Yes, you don't have the right not to be offended. This is not Europe and I'm not a PC leftist I'm an anarchist and an atheist and Islam embodies the very worst in both organized government and organized religion.

killing people up to 50-60 in afghanistan is seen 'mistake',


The war in Afghanistan is a war of self defense. We do not target civilians and when they are killed we mourn not cheer which is distincitively different to the modern Islamic means of waging war through the intentional targeting of civilians and cheering each of their deaths as a victory.


practising the religion of Islam is seen 'concession' etc. i did read a book about Nazi's Germany and there were similar approachs to 'inferior' people by 'superior' Germans .

lol It is Islam which considers those who are not Muslims to be inferior, Christians and Jews will be tolerated as third class citizens but you better watch out if you're a pagan. Anyways Islam isn't a race, I do not judge people on race but I most certainly do judge people on the ideology which they hold. I find it ironic that I'm being lectured about equal rights considering the fact that equal rights is as alien a concept to Islam as the deliciousness of a pulled pork sandwhich and a cold beer.
 

soguks

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@AgentFerris

i will nominate you for the nobel prize; after all, you are smarter then 1.5 b people .btw, i am sorry to have responded this thread in the first place, next time i will visit a mental hospital to wast my time with people in there, at least the people in there take medical care and pills for their problems.
 

Laila

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According to Christians and Muslims, but there is no non-Muslim or non-Christian primary sources standing as testament to their actual existence.

Yes and that is all that matters.
Who cares what Non Muslims/Christians think?
 

Geo Patric

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there is quite good reason to believe that no external source will ever confirm that YOU existed either.

but, that aside, 'folk' personalities do not simply spring up in the minds of their recorders. yes, arthur existed. so did Ulysses. did they do all the things attributed to them? well, no, of course not. but then leBron doesn't either, if you take what the sports writers write literally.

these heroes take on the personality of the the people that represent, or more precisely, the personalities that the people whom they represent would want to show to the world. Siddartha Gautama does not fit into this category. There is ample empical evidence of his existence.

Sven sounds like an idiot. Muhammad and the Q;ran are the only reasons for islam's existence. If he dismisses both as fabrications and maintains that he is still a muslim - he might as well claim to be a martian.

dip****.

geo.
 
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Agent Ferris

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@AgentFerris

i will nominate you for the nobel prize; after all, you are smarter then 1.5 b people .btw,

So is anyone who doesn't live their life based on the fabricated exploits of fictional characters and invisible men in the sky.

i am sorry to have responded this thread in the first place, next time i will visit a mental hospital to wast my time with people in there, at least the people in there take medical care and pills for their problems.

I'm not the one with delusions, I'm not a theist. ;)
 

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I'm not lying about anything, there is no evidence compelling enough to bring Mohammad from the realm of mythical figure to historical figure. If he existed why was he not recorded by the Byzantine or Sassanid Empires?



Well my view is that Islam is directly at odds with secular liberalism and an affront to individual liberty and an insult to any thinking person considering that all 5 sects of Islam hold as the only accepted view that homosexuality, apostasy, adultery, and/or premarital sex are not only crimes but capital and/or corporal offenses.



Yes, you don't have the right not to be offended. This is not Europe and I'm not a PC leftist I'm an anarchist and an atheist and Islam embodies the very worst in both organized government and organized religion.




The war in Afghanistan is a war of self defense. We do not target civilians and when they are killed we mourn not cheer which is distincitively different to the modern Islamic means of waging war through the intentional targeting of civilians and cheering each of their deaths as a victory.




lol It is Islam which considers those who are not Muslims to be inferior, Christians and Jews will be tolerated as third class citizens but you better watch out if you're a pagan. Anyways Islam isn't a race, I do not judge people on race but I most certainly do judge people on the ideology which they hold. I find it ironic that I'm being lectured about equal rights considering the fact that equal rights is as alien a concept to Islam as the deliciousness of a pulled pork sandwhich and a cold beer.

Wait, an anarchist is using Government Sources (period pieces) to justify his opinion. Oh Irony...
 

Laila

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So it doesn't matter to you if he actually existed or not? I think that would be kind of a big sticking point in the mind of any rational human being.

I believe he exists.
Someone who doesn't follow my religion telling me he doesn't exist doesn't matter
 

Agent Ferris

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Wait, an anarchist is using Government Sources (period pieces) to justify his opinion. Oh Irony...

Government sources? No I'm wondering why there are absolutely 0 contemporary Byzantine or Sassanid historians who wrote of such a supposed significant figure.
 

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In other words you don't care about the facts if they contradict your preconcieved ideas.

:shrug:
You have no evidence and it wouldn't matter.
Non Muslims discussing Islam rarely get a look in when it comes to debates over Muslims Prophets whether Jesus, Moses or Mohammed.
 

Agent Ferris

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:shrug:
You have no evidence and it wouldn't matter.

Actually you have no evidence that he is anything more than a fictional character.

Non Muslims discussing Islam rarely get a look in when it comes to debates over Muslims Prophets whether Jesus, Moses or Mohammed.

Not sure I follow here.
 

Laila

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Actually you have no evidence that he is anything more than a fictional character.

Not sure I follow here.

Considering I follow the Qu'ran. That is all I need.

Non Muslims opinions on Islam and our Prophets existence means nothing to Muslims.
 

1069

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Considering I follow the Qu'ran. That is all I need.

Non Muslims opinions on Islam and our Prophets existence means nothing to Muslims.

Same with Jesus and Christians.
There's a reason it's called "blind faith".
It is impervious to rational arguments.
 

Captain America

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Yes and that is all that matters.
Who cares what Non Muslims/Christians think?

Exactly. If people want to believe in Mohammad, Jesus, the easter bunny, tooth-fairy or Santa Claus, who cares? As long as they don't tread on me, I could care less what they think. Although, I do find them to be illogical and perhaps a bit delusional, who cares?
 

1069

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Exactly. If people want to believe in Mohammad, Jesus, the easter bunny, tooth-fairy or Santa Claus, who cares? As long as they don't tread on me, I could care less what they think. Although, I do find them to be illogical and perhaps a bit delusional, who cares?


It makes people fight.
That's the only reason I care.
And I didn't care much about that, either, on a personal level... until I had a dog in the fight.
Now I wish religion had never been invented.

But I suppose they'd just find something else to fight about, wouldn't they?
 

Agent Ferris

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It makes people fight.
That's the only reason I care.
And I didn't care much about that, either, on a personal level... until I had a dog in the fight.
Now I wish religion had never been invented.

But I suppose they'd just find something else to fight about, wouldn't they?

The invisble dragon which breathes heatless fire that lives in my garage is better than your invisible pink unicorn that breathes invisble rainbows and if you disagree I shall smiteth you heretic!
 

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Government sources? No I'm wondering why there are absolutely 0 contemporary Byzantine or Sassanid historians who wrote of such a supposed significant figure.

But at the time, that was who recorded history... Governments. If Joe the Historian wrote about things they didn't like, it was.. destroyed.

But hey, it's okay you jut keep on going! BTW, do you listen to green day?
 

Agent Ferris

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Considering I follow the Qu'ran. That is all I need.

So you follow a book claimed to be the recited word of god by a man who may or may not have even existed? Yep sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Q: How do you know Mohammad existed?
A: Mohammad existed because the Koran says so.

Q: How do you know that the Koran is accurate?
A: Because it is the recited word of god.

Q: Recited by who?
A: Mohammad.

:slapme: :2brickwal
 
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