MOH or Nobel Peace Prize for Bush?

[Red_Dave]

Bush didn't make the world more unstable. The policies, double standards and overall shakyness of his administration did. It took an entire team of people to orquestrate this war. There's no way Bush did this all on his own so giving him that much credit is just not using logic.

Fine, but ultimately it was his final decision to go to war so the buc stops with him.

 

[Hatuey]

No, you would be in love, you would wear your best shirt when she introduces you to mom and dad.

George would ask you if you like Halma and you would tell him, this is your favorite game. You would let him win almost every time, drink coffee and tell Laura, that you have never tasted such an excellent cake.

You would be in love :mrgreen:

I can see them(George and Maximus) going to that Texas ranch and cutting trees down and riding bikes together and discussing world issues. Maximus getting a nosebleed trying to make it look he's serious and George just making light of the situation and saying "**** happens".

 

[Hatuey]

Fine, but ultimately it was his final decision to go to war so the buc stops with him.

Bush would have never gone to war without the approval of Congress and the American people. So in my opinion in the end the fault lays on us. We gave him all the support he needed when the war started. Did you see the support when this war started(Over 80%)? Then saw that there were more bodies coming home the results when it came to the war and the veil slowly came off. The mismanagement was seen for what it was. There was nobody to blame but ourselves.

 

[Red_Dave]

Bush would have never gone to war without the approval of Congress and the American people. So in my opinion in the end the fault lays on us. We gave him all the support he needed when the war started. Did you see the support when this war started(Over 80%)? Then saw that there were more bodies coming home the results when it came to the war and the veil slowly came off. The mismanagement was seen for what it was. There was nobody to blame but ourselves.

Sure the responsibilty is spread out but the subject at hand requiers you to limit it to an indivdual. Bush could have stoped the war, but did not, therefore responsibility rests with him. Not to mention the fact Bush was one of the few people who new the truth about iraqs fabled WMDs whereas a fairly large section of the public acted on ignorance.

 

[Hatuey]

Sure the responsibilty is spread out but the subject at hand requiers you to limit it to an indivdual.

Would you blame the Holocaust on Hitler alone? No you'd blame it on the Nazis as a group. World changing events are rarely the product of one person's genius or stupidity. It takes an entire team of people to orchestrate them.

Bush could have stoped the war,

How?

but did not, therefore responsibility rests with him.

How long did it take for there to be more people against this war then for it? Years. Responsability lays on us for failing to speak up earlier.

Not to mention the fact Bush was one of the few people who new the truth about iraqs fabled WMDs whereas a fairly large section of the public acted on ignorance.

Yes but then you'd have to blame Tony Blair and every other head of state who saw the intelligence reports and still agreed to come to war and show support for the U.S.

 

[Red_Dave]

Would you blame the Holocaust on Hitler alone? No you'd blame it on the Nazis as a group. World changing events are rarely the product of one person's genius or stupidity. It takes an entire team of people to orchestrate them.

No. Neither would i blame the war soley on Bush. What i do think is that he has more responsibility for it then anyone else.

How?

By not invadeing

How long did it take for there to be more people against this war then for it? Years. Responsability lays on us for failing to speak up earlier.?

Untill it became obvious that the WMDs did not exist. That said its very resonable to be against the war but for the ocupation. Ending the ocupation now could trigger WW3

Yes but then you'd have to blame Tony Blair and every other head of state who saw the intelligence reports and still agreed to come to war and show support for the U.S.

I do, thats why i signed a petition to get him impeached.

 

[Hatuey]

No. Neither would i blame the war soley on Bush. What i do think is that he has more responsibility for it then anyone else.

How? There was the faultyness of the information the intelligence communty gave us. There were different goverments at the UN all rallying for this war. There was the way Saddam's military capability was portrayed by "unbiased" news networks such as FOX and MSNBC. There were hundreds of people orchestrating this act. There was the support the American people showed for the war when it first started. All of us contributed to what is happening today. To lay all the culpability on one person is just not right.

By not invadeing

Dave you dont understand. We gave him permision to do as he pleased. We allowed the Patriot Act to go through. We allowed him to send our troops over to that dust bowl in the middle of nowhere.

Untill it became obvious that the WMDs did not exist. That said its very resonable to be against the war but for the ocupation. Ending the ocupation now could trigger WW3

I dont think you know how war works. It's not a switch you can turn on and off. You have to ride it out slowly and if your loses become too big you have to make the decision as to wether or not you want to continue. You can't just start a war and 3 days later decide that you dont want to go through with it anymore.

I do, thats why i signed a petition to get him impeached.

On what grounds? :roll:

 

[Flea]

Originally Posted by Red Dave
Fine, but ultimately it was his final decision to go to war so the buc stops with him.

Do you mean that the Buc stopped there or the BUCK stopped there. Because I keep envisioning a Buccaneer stopping over at the White House. :lol:

No, that wasn't very funny, I know, but I can't stop laughing.

 

[Iriemon]

Bush would have never gone to war without the approval of Congress and the American people. So in my opinion in the end the fault lays on us. We gave him all the support he needed when the war started. Did you see the support when this war started(Over 80%)? Then saw that there were more bodies coming home the results when it came to the war and the veil slowly came off. The mismanagement was seen for what it was. There was nobody to blame but ourselves.

The problem is that months after the Bush admin/neocon spinning, must of "us" believe that Iraq just about had nukes, and that Iraqi army commando sent by Hussein were flying the 9-11 jets, and that the war would last about as long as spring break.

 

[Red_Dave]

How? There was the faultyness of the information the intelligence communty gave us. There were different goverments at the UN all rallying for this war. There was the way Saddam's military capability was portrayed by "unbiased" news networks such as FOX and MSNBC. There were hundreds of people orchestrating this act. There was the support the American people showed for the war when it first started. All of us contributed to what is happening today. To lay all the culpability on one person is just not right.



Dave you dont understand. We gave him permision to do as he pleased. We allowed the Patriot Act to go through. We allowed him to send our troops over to that dust bowl in the middle of nowhere.



I dont think you know how war works. It's not a switch you can turn on and off. You have to ride it out slowly and if your loses become too big you have to make the decision as to wether or not you want to continue. You can't just start a war and 3 days later decide that you dont want to go through with it anymore.



On what grounds? :roll:

I shall reply on completion of my "please read my posts properly before commenting dance"

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

I have to agree with a previous poster here. I think Ptsdkid gives conservatives a bad name, and I think he may be doing it on purpose. His stances are overtly meant to troll. Please, to all our liberal or european posters, I beg that when you think of conservative americans, do not let Ptsdkid be the flag bearer in your mind.

Unfortunately for conservatives PSTkid, NAvy_Pride, Johnny Utah and Bodislimita is perfect examples of what we think are American conservatives.
I surely hope someone can prove that these people are extreme and not the average conservative..

I didnt like GuySgt much in the beginning when I arrived at this forum, but realize that he actually knows alot and keep the debate adult, fair and to the point. If I was a conservative I would much rather want GuySgt to represent the average than a bunch of kids like the first four names i mentioned in this post.

 

[Hatuey]

Unfortunately for conservatives PSTkid, NAvy_Pride, Johnny Utah and Bodislimita is perfect examples of what we think are American conservatives.
I surely hope someone can prove that these people are extreme and not the average conservative..

I didnt like GuySgt much in the beginning when I arrived at this forum, but realize that he actually knows alot and keep the debate adult, fair and to the point. If I was a conservative I would much rather want GuySgt to represent the average than a bunch of kids like the first four names i mentioned in this post.

Bodi, Johnny Utah and NP arent even in the same ballpark as Kid. Kid has his own area code when it comes to ideas. I actually see eye to eye with Bodi and Johnny on most issues. NP not so much but I still like the guy. Kid is just a whole different species when it comes to political thinking. No offence Kid.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Bush would have never gone to war without the approval of Congress and the American people. So in my opinion in the end the fault lays on us. We gave him all the support he needed when the war started. Did you see the support when this war started(Over 80%)? Then saw that there were more bodies coming home the results when it came to the war and the veil slowly came off. The mismanagement was seen for what it was. There was nobody to blame but ourselves.

The American population didn't deceive itself. Also 70% of Americans at that time thought Saddam was behind 911 in some way.

The media is to blame in the end.

 

[Flea]

Thanks for posting this one Hateuy. It is funny.

Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra
Unfortunately for conservatives PSTkid, NAvy_Pride, Johnny Utah and Bodislimita is perfect examples of what we think are American conservatives.
I surely hope someone can prove that these people are extreme and not the average conservative..

I didnt like GuySgt much in the beginning when I arrived at this forum, but realize that he actually knows alot and keep the debate adult, fair and to the point. If I was a conservative I would much rather want GuySgt to represent the average than a bunch of kids like the first four names i mentioned in this post.

I am an Independent Conservative with HEAVY leanings towards Liberalism. I voted Kerry too. You just don't like me because I make fun of your idiotic assessments. Evidently you also miss me ripping on ptskid. I make fun of people that are extreme either way, and you might not be as far left as he is right, but you are both jokes, I am just a jerk to you about it because you don't matter. So you whine.

I live in a Liberal area and I am probably more of a true Liberal at heart than you as well. It sucks for you that I am simply smarter than you and you are unable to comprehend how lacking you are in the various areas that we have covered in our discussions. You are laughable.

It appears that you think that you are more "average" than you are. Either that or Europe is full of morons, and I know that isn't the case, so it must be just you.

Bodi is a Independent Liberal if I remember correctly.

 

[Hatuey]

The American population didn't deceive itself. Also 70% of Americans at that time thought Saddam was behind 911 in some way.

I disagree. We wanted to believe there was a reason for going to war. We didn't wait till all the facts came out. We just gave the president the go ahead.

 

[Iriemon]

I disagree. We wanted to believe there was a reason for going to war. We didn't wait till all the facts came out. We just gave the president the go ahead.

All that Bush Admin/neocon stuff about Iraq's WMDs and ties to Al-Queda and yellowcake and aluminum tubes and hundreds of tons of chemical weapons and reconstituted nuclear programs had nothing to do with it, eh?

 

[CurrentAffairs]

Unfortunately for conservatives PSTkid, NAvy_Pride, Johnny Utah and Bodislimita is perfect examples of what we think are American conservatives.
I surely hope someone can prove that these people are extreme and not the average conservative..

I didnt like GuySgt much in the beginning when I arrived at this forum, but realize that he actually knows alot and keep the debate adult, fair and to the point. If I was a conservative I would much rather want GuySgt to represent the average than a bunch of kids like the first four names i mentioned in this post.

In one sentence, you compliment gunny for keeping the forum adult. In the next, you attack other forum members. Maybe you could learn form gunny's example?

 

[BodiSatva]

Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra
Unfortunately for conservatives PSTkid, NAvy_Pride, Johnny Utah and Bodislimita is perfect examples of what we think are American conservatives.
I surely hope someone can prove that these people are extreme and not the average conservative..

I didnt like GuySgt much in the beginning when I arrived at this forum, but realize that he actually knows alot and keep the debate adult, fair and to the point. If I was a conservative I would much rather want GuySgt to represent the average than a bunch of kids like the first four names i mentioned in this post.

I voted:

Bush
Clinton
Clinton
Gore
Kerry

I am married to an Herbalist in Sonoma County Ca which is a hippy hot-bed and where we live... Sebastopol, it is the only town to pass a city council vote to impeach George Bush.

A third of our friends are homosexuals and another third grow...

We are Attachment Parenting type of parents. Are kids go to Waldorf (Steiner) schools.

We are Environmentalists...

I meditate...we do Tai Chi and Yoga...

We support local business...

I bike to work so that we pollute less...

We recycle and have our own compost pile, since we have our own Organic garden...since my wife is a Master Gardener...

We have many "Rescue" animals...

We donate time and money to causes like the homeless and I try to make the world aware of issue like the Invisible Children of Uganda...

Sounds really Conservative to me... :lol:

You need to re-asses your deductive powers...they seem to be frayed... :rofl

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Though it looks like both Volker and Capt Courtesy agree with me that Bush deserves at least the Nobel Peace Prize, I'm a little surprised that more people haven't suggested he claim the MOH.
One thing for sure; a quick glance at the poll shows overwhelming support for Bush to receive both awards. My message has hit home.

Actually, Volker and I decided that WE should get the Nobel Peace Prize for, as I said, 'turning a partisan, rubbishy thread into something decent and informative.' Please pay attention.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

No, you would be in love, you would wear your best shirt when she introduces you to mom and dad.

George would ask you if you like Halma and you would tell him, this is your favorite game. You would let him win almost every time, drink coffee and tell Laura, that you have never tasted such an excellent cake.

You would be in love :mrgreen:

One of the funniest post ever at DP. Hats off to you, sir.

 

[Thelost1]

...Hippy Stuff...

Geez, man. You are the most liberal person I've ever heard of! (aside from those crazy folk who burn things and such in the name of protecting the environment)

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Thanks for posting this one Hateuy. It is funny.



I am an Independent Conservative with HEAVY leanings towards Liberalism. I voted Kerry too. You just don't like me because I make fun of your idiotic assessments. Evidently you also miss me ripping on ptskid. I make fun of people that are extreme either way, and you might not be as far left as he is right, but you are both jokes, I am just a jerk to you about it because you don't matter. So you whine.

I live in a Liberal area and I am probably more of a true Liberal at heart than you as well. It sucks for you that I am simply smarter than you and you are unable to comprehend how lacking you are in the various areas that we have covered in our discussions. You are laughable.

It appears that you think that you are more "average" than you are. Either that or Europe is full of morons, and I know that isn't the case, so it must be just you.

Bodi is a Independent Liberal if I remember correctly.

Its really annoying to hear that, especially considering its YOU who have problem to understand any other viewpoint than your own extreme right wing stuff.

 

[Hatuey]

Its really annoying to hear that, especially considering its YOU who have problem to understand any other viewpoint than your own extreme right wing stuff.

Johnny Utah is extreme right wing? That would make me a conservative...

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

I voted:

Bush
Clinton
Clinton
Gore
Kerry

I am married to an Herbalist in Sonoma County Ca which is a hippy hot-bed and where we live... Sebastopol, it is the only town to pass a city council vote to impeach George Bush.

A third of our friends are homosexuals and another third grow...

We are Attachment Parenting type of parents. Are kids go to Waldorf (Steiner) schools.

We are Environmentalists...

I meditate...we do Tai Chi and Yoga...

We support local business...

I bike to work so that we pollute less...

We recycle and have our own compost pile, since we have our own Organic garden...since my wife is a Master Gardener...

We have many "Rescue" animals...

We donate time and money to causes like the homeless and I try to make the world aware of issue like the Invisible Children of Uganda...

Sounds really Conservative to me... :lol:

You need to re-asses your deductive powers...they seem to be frayed... :rofl

OK, you come off as pretty conservative to me, but you probably believe I am ultra left, which I am not, I would say I am centre right, but extremely liberal. Because in Europe, thats possible, you dont have to be conservative to be on the right side of politics, and you arent automatically liberal because you are leftist. IE you can be rightist and open minded if you want in Europe, or you can be leftists and closed minded.

I am centre minded, support a lot from both sides, while I am probably the most liberal guy on this forum, especially in the sense that I am not stuck in concepts and old realities.

Ok, then, something is just wrong with you and it must be the way you are debating. IF you can make it more adult, I am certainly up to it with you, even though I have lost hope for the other 3 guys.


To me it would seem from what you say you are liberal(open minded, not limited to old idead) and right wing(in political leaning).

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

OK, you come off as pretty conservative to me, but you probably believe I am ultra left, which I am not, I would say I am centre right, but extremely liberal. Because in Europe, thats possible, you dont have to be conservative to be on the right side of politics, and you arent automatically liberal because you are leftist. IE you can be rightist and open minded if you want in Europe, or you can be leftists and closed minded.

I am centre minded, support a lot from both sides, while I am probably the most liberal guy on this forum, especially in the sense that I am not stuck in concepts and old realities.

Ok, then, something is just wrong with you and it must be the way you are debating. IF you can make it more adult, I am certainly up to it with you, even though I have lost hope for the other 3 guys.


To me it would seem from what you say you are liberal(open minded, not limited to old idead) and right wing(in political leaning).

OK, now you've got me confused, which is quite a feat.