• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Modern Monetary Theory (MMT): How Fiat Money Works

David_N

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
6,562
Reaction score
2,769
Location
The United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
This is something everyone should read to understand how things actually work.
Modern Monetary Theory (MMT): How Fiat Money Works - The Daily Reckoning

Here is what needs to be understood:

 
Here's another great read by the same author: Why a Central Bank Can Never Run Out of Money - The Daily Reckoning
 
:roll: Alright so we should just then have the government give everyone 1 million dollars!!!!! And we'll all be Millionaires!!! We should also buy a death star, free college tuition for life, and instead of paying to go to college WE ACTUALLY get PAID to attend college! The government should also pay for everyone to have a mansion !!! Because it can just print money! We can have money coming from nowhere with no consequences!!!:roll:
 
I read up on the newer stuff on MMT and it is unconvincing. But maybe you can tell me the assumptions in the models that allow infinite money to do no harm.

Which stuff are you talking about? Links please.
What models?
 
I'm sorry, I do not buy it.

MMT still has too much warranted criticism to be accepted as "policy prescriptions" from a "description of how a fiat currency system works." There is still a function of investment in a nation's currency that subscribers of MMT tend to diminish and assume it has no consequence.
 

Who is saying we should give everyone a million dollars?
 


What criticism do you refer to? There are criticisms of policy implications, sure, but the descriptions put forth by MMT are the way things actually work. What do we diminish?
 
What criticism do you refer to? There are criticisms of policy implications, sure, but the descriptions put forth by MMT are the way things actually work. What do we diminish?

I said clearly what MMT diminishes.

MMT reduces the role of investment in a nation's currency, perhaps said a better way MMT does not place any weight on investment (via bonds) to a nation's monetary policy.

While there may be a literal truth that a government with its own currency and in total control over their own monetary policy cannot go bankrupt, what a government can do is destroy the valuation of that currency if fiscal credibility is lost from poor decisions. MMT cannot get around this, no matter how much MMT tries to reduce the impact of fiscal credibility by a government in charge of their own currency.
 

Huh? I'm not following you here. MMT advocates talk about bonds and their role in relation to draining reserves/as a way for the private sector to save all of the time. MMT also talks about how a government should never allow demand pull inflation to occur. (Caused by demand exceeding supply.)
 
Who said money creation was without consequence? If we cause demand to exceed supply, we will get inflation.
Is your plan to spend until you get inflation?
 

That does not address how investment in a nation's currency can be influenced by economic and monetary policy. What it really does is undervalue the risk of policy recommendations on the false assumption that the markets will tolerate anything MMT suggests is monetarily sound irregardless of deficits or Total debt as it relates to GDP. Demand exceeding supply is another oversimplification.
 
Is your plan to spend until you get inflation?

We already have inflation today, the question is where we are in relation to the target. Something else MMT tends to oversimplify.
 

What makes you think MMT ignores any of that?
 
What makes you think MMT ignores any of that?

Just what I can find on the subject, tells me that Krugman's initial criticism of MMT was probably worthy of note even if he has somewhat backed off of that criticism recently.

There is too much discussion we need to have on this as it relates to macro economic behavior to simply turn everything over exclusively to the boundaries of MMT principles on some arrogant assumption that all MMT criticism is completely wrong and all MMT "policy prescriptions" are spot on. That is only made worse by the reality of economics once it becomes politicized.

Taking that attitude will end up alienating too much of the field of academia that you are going to have to sell MMT to, no matter if you like that fact or not.
 
Krugmans criticism has been viciously commented on, and even he has backed off. There are a lot of misconceptions about what MMT advocates believe and want, which leads to the "ZIMBABWE, WEIMAR!" Nonsense that is spread like wildfire whenever a discussion appears. Well, the way the system works tends to be ignored when it comes to macroeconomics, we have textbooks that teach gold standard concepts, etc.. And do economists understand fed operations? Not many, I'd venture to say. Who says all criticism is wrong? The criticism is aimed at exaggerations. You can disagree with the policy prescriptions, that's expected.
 

Don't lump me in with the "ZIMBABWE, WEIMAR" because you do not like my criticism of MMT. Then you would be making the same everyone vs. us mentality mistake as those that run around saying "99% of economist debunk MMT."

I made no exaggerations of MMT, I made specific points of concern that have been made by others. Krugman backing off comments has *not* been followed up with "MMT is complete right, and I was completely wrong about MMT." He says that and I'll reconsider.
 

I wasn't lumping you in with them, I apologize if that's what you got from my post. No one says MMT advocates policy ideas are correct, that's where the debate lies. But we shouldn't even be debating the fact that a deficit adds dollars to the private sector, a surplus drains them, etc, etc...Of course krugman won't say that, that's essentially suicide.
 
We already have inflation today, the question is where we are in relation to the target. Something else MMT tends to oversimplify.

More of the problem I'm wondering is that when rapid inflation actually starts, it's very hard to stop. Whether or not there is currently inflation is not a good way to measure how much you should be spending.
 
More of the problem I'm wondering is that when rapid inflation actually starts, it's very hard to stop. Whether or not there is currently inflation is not a good way to measure how much you should be spending.

For rapid inflation, or hyperinflation, to occur we would have to see some massive underline economic fault probably causing a real depression.

But to trigger it would probably be a matter of fiscal policy and economic policy where there is quick caused massive imbalance between the money supply and GDP direction on a trend line. The model of inflation caused by financing deficits with created money absent necessary taxation and bond investment. Say, when government spending (G) is sharply upward with no end in sight but entirely with printed money... but consumer spending (C) and investment (I) and perhaps even Net Imports (Ex - Im) as well is all headed sharply downward. Confidence in the reasons and the methods for (G) going up so sharply become the issue.

Usually we are talking about things like the after effects of a nation losing a long term war or some massive social unrest causing economic turmoil, something that is outside of the normal economic cycle where the nation's overall growth trend line heads downward and continues on that path for a noticeable time frame. Something that renders monetary policy and economic policy as completely ineffective, as once confidence is lost bad results are soon to follow.

MMT is not suggesting anything contradictory to that really, it is just take on the function of modern Fiat Money systems and policy suggestions because of those theories.

But inflation in a normal economic context including MMT (that 1.5% to 2.5% range or a steady rate of inflation) shows economic activity and growth that is responding to well to ongoing economic and monetary policy from our mixed economic model. This is mainly observed by low inflation tends to actually encourage the purchase of goods and services on a sustained path, ideally relative to a steady rate of overall payroll increases across the income quintiles. This is also observed by low but steady inflation tends to make borrowing money for both consumer debt markets (homes and cars) and business risk markets (entrepreneurship and business expansion) more appealing. Steady low inflation can support reasonable rates on borrowing. The benefits of a controlled low inflation rate are numerous for a growing economy.

Our problem, for the purpose of MMT, is the understatement of the risk of monetary policy decisions. MMT suggests inflation is mostly tied to resources conditions, and not as much about monetary policy. We know, since even our Fiat Money system has investment, that is not quite accurate. MMT does stipulate that confidence does matter on acceptance of monetary policy, but I contend so does *investment confidence* in a nation's monetary and economic policy.
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…