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MMT Has No Clothes[W:26]

Critter7r

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

is he using "money" as a verb in his opening salvo?
 

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

Look, another genius thread by MR! :lol:
 

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

And yet another economics paper that is completely beyond your ability to understand. So why are you even here? If you think that we need even more evidence of your intellectual shortcomings, you are (again) mistaken.

That's it. Belittle me because you can't belittle the experts. You have no argument for those that are really in the know (hint: that's not me and it's not you either) When you resort to these condescending posts it is only because you have no real arguments against the actual facts. This is your only resort. It pleases me to no end that the only way you think you can win the MMT argument is to attack me because you know you have no leg to stand on vs Roche or Palley or Krugman or the thousands of other experts who know MMT backwards and forwards and find it fatally flawed. You know that your only avenue to winning is deflecting the argument from the experts to all of us peons here on DP, including both you and I, where you conveniently try avoiding what the experts say about MMT.
 
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David_N

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

That's it. Belittle me because you can't belittle the experts. You have no argument for those that are really in the know (hint: that's not me and it's not you either) When you resort to these condescending posts it is only because you have no real arguments against the actual facts. This is your only resort. It pleases me to no end that the only way you think you can win the MMT argument is to attack me because you know you have no leg to stand on vs Roche or Palley or the thousands of other experts who know MMT backwards and forwards. You know that Your only avenue to winning is deflecting the argument from the experts to all of us peons here on DP, including both you and I, where you conveniently try avoiding what the experts say about MMT.

I'm not sure what's more hilarious, you citing post Keynesians who actually support deficit spending or the fact that you refuse to put an argument in your own words.
 

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

I'm not sure what's more hilarious, you citing post Keynesians who actually support deficit spending or the fact that you refuse to put an argument in your own words.

I never once said that we should never have deficit spending but having it every year and increasing it every year is fiscally irresponsible. You want it in both bad times and good times. You did a good job though once again in dodging the argument as to why all of these experts (many of them liberal) find MMT flawed and why MMT has such a very small minority following and that not one country in the entire world uses MMT as a guide to their economic policy.
 

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

That's it. Belittle me because you can't belittle the experts. You have no argument for those that are really in the know (hint: that's not me and it's not you either) When you resort to these condescending posts it is only because you have no real arguments against the actual facts. This is your only resort. It pleases me to no end that the only way you think you can win the MMT argument is to attack me because you know you have no leg to stand on vs Roche or Palley or Krugman or the thousands of other experts who know MMT backwards and forwards. You know that Your only avenue to winning is deflecting the argument from the experts to all of us peons here on DP, including both you and I, where you conveniently try avoiding what the experts say about MMT.

I can respond to these papers and their criticisms, because I have read and understand them. But who am I supposed to have a debate with? You??? You haven't demonstrated one speck of understanding in your whole time here. That is what I am belittling. You want to pick a fight, then hide behind people who aren't even here. I condescend to you because you invite it, you beg for it. You are reveling in your own ignorance; any person with an ounce of self-respect would be embarrassed by their own inability to follow through with a debate that they started, but you think of yourself as some kind of champion. Pitiful.
 

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

I can respond to these papers and their criticisms, because I have read and understand them. But who am I supposed to have a debate with? You??? You haven't demonstrated one speck of understanding in your whole time here. That is what I am belittling. You want to pick a fight, then hide behind people who aren't even here. I condescend to you because you invite it, you beg for it. You are reveling in your own ignorance; any person with an ounce of self-respect would be embarrassed by their own inability to follow through with a debate that they started, but you think of yourself as some kind of champion. Pitiful.

You have absolutely zero credentials or credibility to critique papers from those with much more knowledge than you on economics. Your opinion is as worthless as mine. In fact, my opinion actually matches those of the the huge majority of experts who find MMT flawed, why it has such a very small minority following, and why not one country on the planet uses MMT as their economic guide. Your minority views are nothing but a bunch of hot air from an economic wannabe who thinks he is smarter than he is.
 

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

Your opinion is as worthless as mine.

If that's true, then what's the point to these threads about MMT? Why do you post a link to an article without comment? I have to believe you can do better than this.

Imo, this entire exercise is a waste of time. You don't like MMT. Fine. We accept that. Can we move on to discuss how the gubmint should spend and tax?
 

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

Look, another genius thread by MR! :lol:

And yet another economics paper that is completely beyond your ability to understand. So why are you even here? If you think that we need even more evidence of your intellectual shortcomings, you are (again) mistaken.

So, thw guy does nothing but post a link to a paper about MMT. And instead of putting down the paper (because it obviously does not say what you want it to say), you attack and insult the guy that posted it.

First you two were saying how great your MMT theory is. And now you are skipping all that and just flat out insulting anyone who dares to even post papers written by other people that go against your 'sacred' economic beliefs. Pretty juvenile.

If you think this is the way to gain credibility for the MMT theory, you two are sadly mistaken.
 

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

That's it. Belittle me because you can't belittle the experts. You have no argument for those that are really in the know (hint: that's not me and it's not you either) When you resort to these condescending posts it is only because you have no real arguments against the actual facts. This is your only resort. It pleases me to no end that the only way you think you can win the MMT argument is to attack me because you know you have no leg to stand on vs Roche or Palley or Krugman or the thousands of other experts who know MMT backwards and forwards and find it fatally flawed. You know that your only avenue to winning is deflecting the argument from the experts to all of us peons here on DP, including both you and I, where you conveniently try avoiding what the experts say about MMT.

Well put.

Their attacks/insults are a clear sign of desperation, IMO.
 

DA60

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

I can respond to these papers and their criticisms, because I have read and understand them. But who am I supposed to have a debate with? You??? You haven't demonstrated one speck of understanding in your whole time here. That is what I am belittling. You want to pick a fight, then hide behind people who aren't even here. I condescend to you because you invite it, you beg for it. You are reveling in your own ignorance; any person with an ounce of self-respect would be embarrassed by their own inability to follow through with a debate that they started, but you think of yourself as some kind of champion. Pitiful.

Are you going to actually deal with the OP article/paper at all? Or are you just going to keep attacking/insulting the guy?

The question is rhetorical, btw.
 

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

If that's true, then what's the point to these threads about MMT? Why do you post a link to an article without comment? I have to believe you can do better than this.

Imo, this entire exercise is a waste of time. You don't like MMT. Fine. We accept that. Can we move on to discuss how the gubmint should spend and tax?

He is under no obligation whatsoever to discuss anything. You three have never shown any desire to compromise your positions (to my knowledge). So why should he waste his time talking to you about it?
So he posts others points of view to invite discussion and you three jump all over him and either flat out insult him or get on his case for not chatting more.

Hey...if you don't like what he posts...DON'T READ IT.

But insulting the guy is childish and makes you three look ridiculous, IMO.

Either debate the merits of the points in the OP, ignore them or stop insulting/goading the guy when he has said NOTHING to you in this thread.

Jeez.
 

Critter7r

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

Are you going to actually deal with the OP article/paper at all? Or are you just going to keep attacking/insulting the guy?

The question is rhetorical, btw.

Rhetorical or not, the insulting part is where MR Googles "doods against MMT" and links to the longest articles he can find and summarizes with, "So, howya like me now?"

There has been exactly zero effort put in by MR to read, digest, comprehend and analyze the links he provides in the way in which he expects others to read, digest, comprehend, analyze and refute those articles in some meaningful way.
 

Critter7r

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

Either debate the merits of the points in the OP, ignore them or stop insulting/goading the guy when he has said NOTHING to you in this thread.

Jeez.

There are no points in the OP. There is only a link.

MR offers up zero points, and receives no internetz for today.
 

Critter7r

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

And just for fun, the OP's link is the paper of a guy who says, "yes, the gov't can print as much money as it wants", and, "no, the gov't need never default on any debt that it incurs", which happen to be the two building blocks upon which the MMT'ers here base their case for deficit spending.

If MR wants to debate the pros and cons of deficit spending and where he thinks it might or might not be appropriate, I'd encourage him to do so. Instead, he's all about hyperbole and extremes and digging his heels in.

Frankly, it's getting tiresome.
 

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

Rhetorical or not, the insulting part is where MR Googles "doods against MMT" and links to the longest articles he can find and summarizes with, "So, howya like me now?"

There has been exactly zero effort put in by MR to read, digest, comprehend and analyze the links he provides in the way in which he expects others to read, digest, comprehend, analyze and refute those articles in some meaningful way.

A) All he typed was 'Yet another expert who critques MMT'. There was nothing insulting at all in that - unless your skin is microscopically thin.

B) You have absolutely no idea how much effort he put into the article or whether he read it or not.

and C) If you don't like the OP - then don't read it. What difference does it possibly make if he understands it or not (which I assume he does, btw)?
The point of the thread is the posted article in the OP...not what the guy who posted it thinks about it.
 

Critter7r

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

A) All he typed was 'Yet another expert who critques MMT'. There was nothing insulting at all in that - unless your skin is microscopically thin.

It's insulting because he expects others to do what he won't do himself.

B) You have absolutely no idea how much effort he put into the article or whether he read it or not.

Touche. However, I might have some idea if he'd OFFER UP SOME SUMMARY POINTS!!

C) Even if you are right on this (which I doubt), please show me where it says on the rules that someone has to fully understand or even fully read the OP articles they post?

aaaaaaaannnnnddd, welcome to 3rd grade, everyone ... "Na na na na boo boo, you can't show me where it says that in the rules".

Reasonable minds understand that a discussion isn't "Here's an article. Read it and weep". Adults post a lind, and then (shock of all shocks) tell what they think of said article.

and D) If you don't like the OP - then don't read it. What difference does it possibly make if he understands it or not (which I assume he does, btw)?

There is no reason to assume such a thing, given his posting history.

The point of the thread is the posted article in the OP...not what the guy who posted it thinks about it.

Again, when adults want to have a conversation (even one that's online), you have to make a point, say something. Hit the high points of that 74-page article you just posted. Let us know you're not just trolling, but actually trying to have an intelligent conversation.
 

DA60

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

It's insulting because he expects others to do what he won't do himself.



Touche. However, I might have some idea if he'd OFFER UP SOME SUMMARY POINTS!!



aaaaaaaannnnnddd, welcome to 3rd grade, everyone ... "Na na na na boo boo, you can't show me where it says that in the rules".

Reasonable minds understand that a discussion isn't "Here's an article. Read it and weep". Adults post a lind, and then (shock of all shocks) tell what they think of said article.



There is no reason to assume such a thing, given his posting history.



Again, when adults want to have a conversation (even one that's online), you have to make a point, say something. Hit the high points of that 74-page article you just posted. Let us know you're not just trolling, but actually trying to have an intelligent conversation.


- He is under no obligation to do anything you said.

- And he (or anyone else) should not be insulted just because he posted an article you/others do not like.

- I am not debating this with you or anyone else. The guy did NOTHING to merit the insults/attacks thrown at him...period. And I would say the same thing if the roles were reversed.
If you don't like his threads - then here is a novel idea - DON'T READ THEM.

We are done on this.

Good day.

Btw - I deleted the above quoted 'C' from my post as I don't agree with it after all.
 

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

If that's true, then what's the point to these threads about MMT? Why do you post a link to an article without comment? I have to believe you can do better than this.

Imo, this entire exercise is a waste of time. You don't like MMT. Fine. We accept that. Can we move on to discuss how the gubmint should spend and tax?

The MMT'rs keep up with their crapola all the time. This thread is just a counter to their never ending crap. Why are they allowed to start threads but I'm not? Sounds to me like you are tying to change the subject but I'll bite anyway. CAN we talk about how the government should spend and tax without inflecting MMT into the discussion? Sounds like a trick to me. The government should be fiscally responsible and not be in debt 20 trillion dollars and part of that is spending less and collecting more tax dollars, but not just from the rich. Everyone over the poverty line should be contributing something to our government, not just the rich. There was an article out just today where the IRS admits that it handed out over $15 billion dollars in erroneous earned income tax credits on tax returns. While that is just a mere drop in the bucket for the US economy the government is ripe with waste.
 

mmi

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

a clear sign of desperation

Yeah, desperation to stop wasting time going over the same unproductive ground ad nauseum.

"No country uses MMT" is the equivalent of saying "no country uses gravity." It's validity either can or cannot be demonstrated. I'd say every country with a sovereign currency "uses MMT."

"Increasing the money supply causes inflation." This completely ignores the level of real output.

"MMT says there's only one kind of inflation." Utter nonsense.

""MMT says national debt does not matter because it is not real debt and, in fact, that we should just spend, spend, spend, into oblivion." Somewhat hyperbolic, if ya ask me. My understanding is that MMT is merely expanding Keynesian analysis in arguing that public debt cannot be fully understood without taking into account the fact that it's not debt for the bondholders, but rather wealth, and that the interest payments are in fact private income. How can that be denied?

I am 100% confident that MMT does NOT say that deficits don't matter, that they can get bigger and bigger no matter what and all will be good. MMT says that deficits should be big enough to use up all of the available productive capacity. If you don't like deficits, you should advocate policies that will employ all our resources, like the unemployed and the underemployed. Let's improve the operation of the labor market and we won't be in a position to benefit from deficit spending.

In years past, Keynesian theory was held by the Right to be the product of communist ideology, a collection of subversive lies that were quickly destroying America's system of free-market capitalism. But the country did very well for a few decades, so that nonsense died down. Then MMT came along and dispelled some Keynesian myths related to banking and inflation and crowding out, etc, and so now it's the new threat to civilization. Reactionaries have always been rather simple-minded and easily frightened. I'm thinking we'll be OK if we can keep them out of power politically.
 

mmi

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

He is under no obligation whatsoever to discuss anything.

Fine. End of discussion … that never started, or at least was never worth anything.

Everyone over the poverty line should be contributing something to our government, not just the rich.

And that's exactly what's happening. Last year, the bottom four quintiles paid more than 35.3% of the taxes while collecting 39.3% of the income. Not even much progressivity for you to complain about.

income_and_taxes_paid_by_quintile_2015.jpg
 
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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

Rhetorical or not, the insulting part is where MR Googles "doods against MMT" and links to the longest articles he can find and summarizes with, "So, howya like me now?"

There has been exactly zero effort put in by MR to read, digest, comprehend and analyze the links he provides in the way in which he expects others to read, digest, comprehend, analyze and refute those articles in some meaningful way.

That's not even correct. I put a lot of effort into understanding the things in the papers I link to but I can't make a better argument than an expert can and why should I? You guys just can't get over the fact that people can have a good understanding of MMT and yet find it flawed. In your minds you think that if you understand MMT then you have to agree with it and those that do not agree with it simply don't understand it. I understand it enough to know that the huge majority of the best economists in the world seem to agree with me, other than the very small minority following MMT has. That makes me actually have a better understanding of MMT than you guys who liberally cling to a flawed theory just because it supports your liberal ideals. It's nothing more than snake oil, as this paper basically claims. If you are dying of cancer you are more apt to reach for straws and buy that magic elixer that cures that cancer from that traveling medicine man. If you want to justify your liberal agendas or beliefs during down economic times then you can buy into the traveling salesman's snake oil called MMT. It is the perfect cure for you cancer. Unfortunately, it isn't much more than a hoax.
 

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Re: MMT Has No Clothes

The MMT'rs keep up with their crapola all the time. This thread is just a counter to their never ending crap. Why are they allowed to start threads but I'm not? Sounds to me like you are tying to change the subject but I'll bite anyway. CAN we talk about how the government should spend and tax without inflecting MMT into the discussion? Sounds like a trick to me. The government should be fiscally responsible and not be in debt 20 trillion dollars and part of that is spending less and collecting more tax dollars, but not just from the rich. Everyone over the poverty line should be contributing something to our government, not just the rich. There was an article out just today where the IRS admits that it handed out over $15 billion dollars in erroneous earned income tax credits on tax returns. While that is just a mere drop in the bucket for the US economy the government is ripe with waste.

*rife
 
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