• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Mitt Romney announcing VP selection tomorrow (Saturday), 9 ET[W:134, 926]

Gimmesometruth

Gutless Coward
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Messages
29,159
Reaction score
6,245
Location
US Southwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

I think your political ethics and style would fit in perfectly with the attrocious campaigns being ran (sic) this year.
Ethics and style, that's rich.
 
Last edited:

Bobcat

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
3,646
Reaction score
748
Location
The BIG easy
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

OK - in larger letters this time


They never seem to mention the fact that most of that number are working and do pay "Fed taxes", they are the FICA taxes that pay for Social Security and Medicare.
they also pay sales taxes, but the fact is they pay NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES.
 

Fruityfact

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Messages
3,920
Reaction score
1,385
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

they also pay sales taxes, but the fact is they pay NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES.
No point in taking the poor's money when it will just have to be redistributed back to them cause they make inadequate wages
 

Somerville

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
15,119
Reaction score
6,238
Location
On an island. Not that one!
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

they also pay sales taxes, but the fact is they pay NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES.
Correct! You should then be telling your friends on the right that every time they post "The poor pay no Fed Taxes", they are supporting the lefties who say too many on the right are clueless.
 

Bobcat

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
3,646
Reaction score
748
Location
The BIG easy
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

Correct! You should then be telling your friends on the right that every time they post "The poor pay no Fed Taxes", they are supporting the lefties who say too many on the right are clueless.
I don't recall anyone saying the poor pay no taxes. the statistic is always referring to federal income taxes.

and why shouldn't everyone pay FICA and medicare? they will get that back when they retire. do you want to give low income folks a free ride on SS and medicare as well as income taxes? I thought you dems were all about "paying your fair share"
 

Bobcat

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
3,646
Reaction score
748
Location
The BIG easy
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

No point in taking the poor's money when it will just have to be redistributed back to them cause they make inadequate wages
whats inadequate in New York city or San Francisco may be quite adequate in Macon GA or Boise ID. But to your point, is it the govt's role to guarantee every citizen a certain level of income? If yes, please tell us where you find that in the constitution.
 

Gimmesometruth

Gutless Coward
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Messages
29,159
Reaction score
6,245
Location
US Southwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

But to your point, is it the govt's role to guarantee every citizen a certain level of income? If yes, please tell us where you find that in the constitution.
You are trying to argue that the EITC is un-Constitutional?
 

Bobcat

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
3,646
Reaction score
748
Location
The BIG easy
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

You are trying to argue that the EITC is un-Constitutional?
it may be, but thats not my question. where in the constitution do you find language saying that a role of the federal govt is to ensure that all citizens have a certain level of income?
 

Bobcat

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
3,646
Reaction score
748
Location
The BIG easy
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

I don't recall anyone saying the poor should not pay FICA. (PS....FICA is SS & Medicare)
No its not, FICA is social security Federal Insurance Contribution Act, medicare is a separate withhold from your pay.
 

Somerville

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
15,119
Reaction score
6,238
Location
On an island. Not that one!
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

I don't recall anyone saying the poor pay no taxes. the statistic is always referring to federal income taxes.

and why shouldn't everyone pay FICA and medicare? they will get that back when they retire. do you want to give low income folks a free ride on SS and medicare as well as income taxes? I thought you dems were all about "paying your fair share"

Like I wrote: You should then be telling your friends on the right that every time they post "The poor pay no Fed Taxes", because some poster using the nym Billy the Kid back in post #1039 did write that the poor "pay no Fed taxes"

"the statistic" may be "referring to federal income taxes" but all too often the clueless read it as saying either "ALL taxes" or "Fed taxes", neither of which is true. In the real world, approximately 16% of the lowest quintile's income goes to paying taxes.
 

Gimmesometruth

Gutless Coward
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Messages
29,159
Reaction score
6,245
Location
US Southwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

it may be, but thats not my question. where in the constitution do you find language saying that a role of the federal govt is to ensure that all citizens have a certain level of income?
Then you don't know what the EITC is.
 

Gimmesometruth

Gutless Coward
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Messages
29,159
Reaction score
6,245
Location
US Southwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

No its not, FICA is social security Federal Insurance Contribution Act, medicare is a separate withhold from your pay.
Under the Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) 12.4% of earned income up to an annual limit must be paid into Social Security, and an additional 2.9% must be paid into Medicare.

Cmon, this so basic.
 

Somerville

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
15,119
Reaction score
6,238
Location
On an island. Not that one!
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

No its not, FICA is social security Federal Insurance Contribution Act, medicare is a separate withhold from your pay.

You are wrong on this matter. FICA is the total Federal Insurance Contributions required of all wage earners, SS and medicare may be shown as separate deductions from a pay check but they both fall under FICA
 

Bobcat

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
3,646
Reaction score
748
Location
The BIG easy
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

You are wrong on this matter. FICA is the total Federal Insurance Contributions required of all wage earners, SS and medicare may be shown as separate deductions from a pay check but they both fall under FICA
Social security was started under the FICA act Medicare was added in the 1960s under a separate act.
 

Gimmesometruth

Gutless Coward
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Messages
29,159
Reaction score
6,245
Location
US Southwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

Social security was started under the FICA act Medicare was added in the 1960s under a separate act.
So what year is it...now? I know cons are traditionalists....but this is ridiculous.
 

upsideguy

Pragmatic Idealist
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
17,358
Reaction score
10,240
Location
Rocky Mtn. High
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive

winston53660

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
29,265
Reaction score
10,128
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: Mitt Romney announcing VP selection tomorrow (Saturday), 9 ET

Originally Posted by Conservative
You are correct, the good news is Ryan is Romney's pick and that is Obama's worst nightmare

Paul Ryan: Hiding Spending Doesn't Reduce Spending - YouTube

How many ties are you going to post this w/o the rebuttal?
 

upsideguy

Pragmatic Idealist
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
17,358
Reaction score
10,240
Location
Rocky Mtn. High
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

What taxes are included in those charts? The IRS disagrees with you on income taxes
Obviously its all taxes. Of course, you are now going to try to tell me there is a distinction and I should take note... save your self from having to queue up post #3A from your archives. I have seen it. Sorry, but tax is tax. Getting hung up on the distinction of one paying for one thing and one paying for another is silly. Most people have no idea what their taxes pay for, nor do they care. They just know "tax is tax".... this is especially true of FICA/FIT, which congress has chosen to co-mingle, including you. People are constantly trying to tell us that tax revenue went up after Bush implemented his cuts..... not true, unless you co-mingle FICA. The fact is, FICA revenue increases masked the rather large decrease in FIT tax revenue after the tax cuts to 2001 and 2003.... but we have talked about this ad nauseam.

One of the reasons for a higher threshold of taxation on FIT is the very fact that lower income earners must devote a higher percentage of their income to pay for FICA and Sales Tax. Its built into the model.... and, as you can see, it results in what is essentially a flat tax.
 

upsideguy

Pragmatic Idealist
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
17,358
Reaction score
10,240
Location
Rocky Mtn. High
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

they also pay sales taxes, but the fact is they pay NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES.
They pay no federal income taxes, because they have no discretionary income, which is what FIT is taxing. Fix the economy and fix the distribution of wealth in this country and the lower income earners will have discretionary income and pay FIT.

wealth-inequality.jpg

The fact is that all the income growth in the country since 1980 has gone to the upper income groups, while the lower groups have actually moved backwards. No wonder the wealthy pay more and more and the lower incomes pay less and less. You want to fix the tax issue? Fix the income issue!
 
Last edited:

hazlnut

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
11,963
Reaction score
3,543
Location
Naperville, IL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Re: My honest gut about the Ryan pick is ...

it may be, but thats not my question. where in the constitution do you find language saying that a role of the federal govt is to ensure that all citizens have a certain level of income?
It's complicated, you could fill a chapter or two in U.S. Civics textbook, and I honestly don't think you care to know or understand the reasoning behind safety nets and maintaining a standard of living for the working poor... So, I'm just going to cut to the chase...

In McCulloch v. Maryland (1819), the Supreme Court read the Necessary and Proper Clause to permit the federal government to take action that would "enable [it] to perform the high duties assigned to it [by the Constitution] in the manner most beneficial to the people,"[23] even if that action is not itself within the enumerated powers.
In the constitution, there are both literal powers/limits & implied powers/limits. Also, since the constitution there have been inherited powers for all three branches that have come about through different forms--e.g. First War Powers Act, Second War Powers Act.
 
Top Bottom