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Missouri Tells Obama and the Feds to Get Bent

The_Patriot

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This is better late then never, but Missouri voted overwhelmingly in favor of the Health Care Freedom Act. The act nullifies the federal health care reform act. Missourians voted 71% in favor of the Health Care Freedom Act, which is a major win.

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EnigmaO01

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I wasn't aware a state could supercede a federal law?
 

The_Patriot

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I wasn't aware a state could supercede a federal law?
Federal law is only valid on federal property since the federal government lacks the power to pass laws that affect the states within state borders. Do you remember RealID? I do and many states passed nullification laws or just never complied with the federal law. Do you remember No Child Left Behind? Many states passed a law that stated that they wouldn't be following federal law.
 

EnigmaO01

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Well then why is it in my industry (aquaculture) the feds pass a mandate and the states have to comply?

You do realize if what you say it true the feds have ways to force compilation right? I.e. highway speed limits if not in compilation the states lose funding.
 

The_Patriot

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Well then why is it in my industry (aquaculture) the feds pass a mandate and the states have to comply?

You do realize if what you say it true the feds have ways to force compilation right? I.e. highway speed limits if not in compilation the states lose funding.
If you're working in an industry that is around the water then the feds have jurisdiction, but on land they don't. Another factor is if it crosses state lines then they have jurisdiction. However, health insurance doesn't cross state lines thanks to a federal law that prohibits it, so all of the insurance companies are inside of a single state.

The feds can try to force compliance, but would require the federal government to expend their limited resources to force it. Since their resources are limited federal laws like No Child Left Behind are unenforceable. There are state laws that nullify the effects of the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the National Firearms Act of 1934 on the sale and manufacture of firearms produced and sold within a state's borders. The firearms do not cross state lines. Some of these laws have real teeth to them like the one in New Hampshire allows local law enforcement officers to arrest and charge federal agents for enforcing federal law.
 

hazlnut

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This is better late then never, but Missouri voted overwhelmingly in favor of the Health Care Freedom Act. The act nullifies the federal health care reform act. Missourians voted 71% in favor of the Health Care Freedom Act, which is a major win.
Can we get our FEMA money back?
 

hazlnut

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What does FEMA have to do with Missouri nullifying the health care reform?
They want to go it alone... let 'em. Just like the guy whose house burnt down.

Don't call us if you get flooded or the poverty in your cities gets out of control...
 

The_Patriot

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They want to go it alone... let 'em. Just like the guy whose house burnt down.

Don't call us if you get flooded or the poverty in your cities gets out of control...
Yes, because we all know that FEMA =/= Health Care Reform. :roll: You do realize that FEMA is paid for from income and excise taxes that all people pay in, including Missourians?
 

The_Patriot

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Here's the full text of the Missouri Constitutional Amendment.
1.330. 1. No law or rule shall compel, directly or indirectly, any person, employer, or health care provider to participate in any health care system.
2. A person or employer may pay directly for lawful health care services and shall not be required by law or rule to pay penalties or fines for paying directly for lawful health care services. A health care provider may accept direct payment for lawful health care services and shall not be required by law or rule to pay penalties or fines for accepting direct payment from a person or employer for lawful health care services.
3. Subject to reasonable and necessary rules that do not substantially limit a person's options, the purchase or sale of health insurance in private health care systems shall not be prohibited by law or rule.
4. This section does not:

(1) Affect which health care services a health care provider or hospital is required to perform or provide;
(2) Affect which health care services are permitted by law;
(3) Prohibit care provided under workers' compensation as provided under state law;
(4) Affect laws or regulations in effect as of January 1, 2010;
(5) Affect the terms or conditions of any health care system to the extent that those terms and conditions do not have the effect of punishing a person or employer for paying directly for lawful health care services or a health care provider or hospital for accepting direct payment from a person or employer for lawful health care services.

5. As used in this section, the following terms shall mean:

(1) "Compel", any penalties or fines;
(2) "Direct payment or pay directly", payment for lawful health care services without a public or private third party, not including an employer, paying for any portion of the service;
(3) "Health care system", any public or private entity whose function or purpose is the management of, processing of, enrollment of individuals for or payment for, in full or in part, health care services or health care data or health care information for its participants;
(4) "Lawful health care services", any health-related service or treatment to the extent that the service or treatment is permitted or not prohibited by law or regulation that may be provided by persons or businesses otherwise permitted to offer such services; and
(5) "Penalties or fines", any civil or criminal penalty or fine, tax, salary or wage withholding or surcharge or any named fee with a similar effect established by law or rule by a government established, created or controlled agency that is used to punish or discourage the exercise of rights protected under this section.

375.1175. 1. The director may petition the court for an order directing him to liquidate a domestic insurer or an alien insurer domiciled in this state on the basis:

(1) Of any ground for an order of rehabilitation as specified in section 375.1165, whether or not there has been a prior order directing the rehabilitation of the insurer;
(2) That the insurer is insolvent;
(3) That the insurer is in such condition that the further transaction of business would be hazardous, financially or otherwise, to its policyholders, its creditors or the public;
(4) That the insurer is found to be in such condition after examination that it could not meet the requirements for incorporation and authorization specified in the law under which it was incorporated or is doing business; or
(5) That the insurer has ceased to transact the business of insurance for a period of one year.

2. Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, a domestic insurer organized as a stock insurance company may voluntarily dissolve and liquidate as a corporation under sections 351.462 to 351.482, provided that:

(1) The director, in his or her sole discretion, approves the articles of dissolution prior to filing such articles with the secretary of state. In determining whether to approve or disapprove the articles of dissolution, the director shall consider, among other factors, whether:

(a) The insurer's annual financial statements filed with the director show no written insurance premiums for five years; and
(b) The insurer has demonstrated that all policyholder claims have been satisfied or have been transferred to another insurer in a transaction approved by the director; and
(c) An examination of the insurer pursuant to sections 374.202 to 374.207 has been completed within the last five years; and

(2) The domestic insurer files with the secretary of state a copy of the director's approval, certified by the director, along with articles of dissolution as provided in section 351.462 or 351.468.
 

hazlnut

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Yes, because we all know that FEMA =/= Health Care Reform. :roll: You do realize that FEMA is paid for from income and excise taxes that all people pay in, including Missourians?
Oh, so that big Gov is okay... Got it.

And can we get the $$4,246,967,208 in stimulus dollars back?? That's billion with a B.
 

The_Patriot

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Oh, so that big Gov is okay... Got it.

And can we get the $$4,246,967,208 in stimulus dollars back?? That's billion with a B.
Got anything to say about the topic at hand or are you going to make invalid comparisons all the time?
 

hazlnut

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Federal law is only valid on federal property since the federal government lacks the power to pass laws that affect the states within state borders.
So, why is the FBI always getting all touchy about kidnapping. I mean, as long as it's not on Federal property, what's it too them?

And I guess the IRS can't touch me unless I'm in a National Park or in a Federal Building... what a relief...

And I guess illegal immigration is only really illegal... where? Not in the state of Arizona, because the Fed can't pass laws there.
 

The_Patriot

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So, why is the FBI always getting all touchy about kidnapping. I mean, as long as it's not on Federal property, what's it too them?

And I guess the IRS can't touch me unless I'm in a National Park or in a Federal Building... what a relief...

And I guess illegal immigration is only really illegal... where? Not in the state of Arizona, because the Fed can't pass laws there.
The FBI only gets involved in kidnappings that cross state lines.

The IRS I have no comment on, since I wasn't alive when it was enacted and enforced.

Illegal immigration is illegal since it involves crossing international borders without following immigration law, which is part of what the federal government can do. Do you have anything that relates to the topic at hand or are you going to sit there pulling crap out of your butt?
 

hazlnut

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Got anything to say about the topic at hand or are you going to make invalid comparisons all the time?
If you don't understand the comparison, you don't understand the health care bill.

I know you've probably memorized the Fox News/Rush L talking points, but do you really understand what the bill is trying to do in terms of reducing costs?
 

The_Patriot

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If you don't understand the comparison, you don't understand the health care bill.

I know you've probably memorized the Fox News/Rush L talking points, but do you really understand what the bill is trying to do in terms of reducing costs?
The federal law oversteps federal authority. I hate Fox News and Rush. In fact, I hate talking heads because they have an agenda and only tell you parts of what you want to hear. However, your examples have no bearing on Missouri nullifying the health care reform. Stick to the topic of Missouri passing the Health Care Freedom Act.
 

hazlnut

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The FBI only gets involved in kidnappings that cross state lines.
WRONG - the FBI investigates child abductions. CARD teams are deployed for high profile cases.

The FBI also investigates violent gangs, car theft, art theft, and other state crimes in certain circumstances.

The IRS I have no comment on, since I wasn't alive when it was enacted and enforced.
And you weren't alive when the Bill of Rights was enacted. So, no free speech for you...

Do you have anything that relates to the topic at hand or are you going to sit there pulling crap out of your butt?
I'm just poking fun at your total lack of knowledge about what Federal law covers....
 

The_Patriot

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WRONG - the FBI investigates child abductions. CARD teams are deployed for high profile cases.

The FBI also investigates violent gangs, car theft, art theft, and other state crimes in certain circumstances.



And you weren't alive when the Bill of Rights was enacted. So, no free speech for you...



I'm just poking fun at your total lack of knowledge about what Federal law covers....
Right so you have nothing to add here. As far as poking fun, federal law is limited by the Constitution of the United States. I can tell that you have a severe lack of understanding in this department. As I stated previously, health insurance companies operate only in a single state due to a federal law that prohibits them from crossing state lines and engaging in interstate commerce. No interstate commerce means that Article I Section VIII Clause XVII and Article IV Section III Clause II apply, which means that the federal government cannot pass a law that applies within a state's borders and enforce it. It is a non-law from the moment of its enactment.
 

hazlnut

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The federal law oversteps federal authority. I hate Fox News and Rush. In fact, I hate talking heads because they have an agenda and only tell you parts of what you want to hear. However, your examples have no bearing on Missouri nullifying the health care reform. Stick to the topic of Missouri passing the Health Care Freedom Act.
Why? Do they want freedom from federal law?

Do they want to go it alone? Or do they just want to pick and choose which federal laws they follow?

Sounds like the Missouri state legislature is kind of an embarrassment--in terms of intelligence.
 

The_Patriot

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Why? Do they want freedom from federal law?

Do they want to go it alone? Or do they just want to pick and choose which federal laws they follow?

Sounds like the Missouri state legislature is kind of an embarrassment--in terms of intelligence.
They want the federal government to not mandate to the people of Missouri that they have to buy a good to be in this country.

If you had taken time to read the article you would have found out that this was a vote by the people on a general ballot state wide for a provision to be added to the Missouri Constitution. The people of Missouri told the federal government and Obama to get bent and leave their health care alone with a final vote of 71%. That's a supermajority of the people that said no they do not want this.

Are you saying that Missourians are stupid? If you knew anything about Missouri, you would know that the people vote on every major issue, Constitutional amendment, tax increases, etc... The legislature only proposes those measures for placement on the ballot if there isn't a petition out there to have an issue put on the ballot. Does Californistan do this?

Besides what does it matter to you what Missouri does since you live in Californistan the land of being on the brink of bankruptcy?
 
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