Minneapolis stores looted as mayhem erupts following gunman's suicide: police

[apdst]

Breonna

Taylor

Was

Sleeping

You're absolutely right, though. Doing nothing and hoping people just start accepting the injustice is failing miserably.

That

Was

An

Accident

And I've said time-and-again that I believe no-knock warrants should be illegal. Technically, most of them are because the evidence used to obtain them is weak as ****. When serving a no-knock warrant goes bad, somebody dies, the judge who signed off on it should be charged, too.

 

[apdst]

There are more unemployed people than there are job openings.

There weren't 6 months ago and the same clowns were crying about not having a job. It's a fact that they don't want a job.

 

[trixare4kids]

Sorry about that. There was no attempt to bait you, but it was a rhetorical question that could've been phrased more respectfully. As I read the conversation, it started to seem like you would call it "making excuses for criminals" if anyone were to try and understand the riots as being largely the result of unhinged anger over police misconduct, instead of some sinister attempt at unrelated things like overthrowing our system of government and instilling communism or anarchy. Too many people are giving it the easy label and no longer listening to the original voice. Case in point:

I understand what BLM is protesting; police brutality/racism. I don't deny that it exists.
That's a completely different thing in theory though than what I have addressed above.

Instead of insulting those of us who demand law and order in our cities, take your complaints up with those who are using the BLM platform as an excuse to commit crime. That's who you should be pointing your finger at.

Also while you're at it, not all BLM people have good intentions. You don't go around demanding to be heard by saying to the public and store owners that reparations is looting. Not if you want to be taken seriously by me.

 

[joko104]

Sorry about that. There was no attempt to bait you, but it was a rhetorical question that could've been phrased more respectfully. As I read the conversation, it started to seem like you would call it "making excuses for criminals" if anyone were to try and understand the riots as being largely the result of unhinged anger over police misconduct, instead of some sinister attempt at unrelated things like overthrowing our system of government and instilling communism or anarchy. Too many people are giving it the easy label and no longer listening to the original voice. Case in point:


It's much easier to just stop listening to everyone and blame them all for the actions of a few, than it is to acknowledge the complexities that are inherent in any large group of individuals and remain diligent in the belief that most of the demonstrators are good people not doing bad things. This temptation toward simplicity is one of the most common ways that bigotry sneaks into the minds of otherwise fair-minded people.

The anger is because of police misconduct. If we don't acknowledge that then we don't address the problem, we address the symptom. Some of them wrongly feel justified lashing out at the system by assaulting cops and destroying government property. Some of them wrongly feel justified lashing out at the system by assaulting innocent citizens and destroying their private property. Some of them are hoping to be at ground zero for the start of Civil War 2.0, and are taking proactive measures to try and instigate it. Some of them don't even care about any of that so much as they care about some free loot. But the majority are not participating in any of that junk and their voices are being drowned out by the scumbag violent minority. I still hear them though!

I did not say I don't listen to people. I don't listen to any mob of protesters, because the are a mob and most are there for the excitement, their 15 minutes of fame etc. It has been shown time and again that particularly young adults will sign ANY petition put in front of them and agree to about anything if put into the context of protesting. Most are there just to be there and would be there for whatever peer pressure approves of - nothing else.

Mobs - call them whatever name you wish - are specifically about simplicity. They chant whatever told to chat like a religious cult.

I can be persuaded and can acknowledge being mistaken or in the wrong - often even admit so towards adversarial posters on the forum or when I just mix them up. This causes me no ego problems. But I make my decisions on upon actual facts and most of all my own experiences, what I personally see and hear. The line from the movie: A person is smart but people are stupid" comes to mind.

What more do they want? Police are being arrested and charged with murder when even if a fact the officer did exactly nothing himself - arrested and declared guilty merely for being there and a police officer.

 

[Integrityrespec]

That does seem to be rather irrational. I think folk are just looking for excuses to loot at this point.

****ing 2020.

They are not protesters, protesting for anything. They are criminals taking advantage of weak democrat mayors to loot cities while the police are ordered to let it happen. BLM is a cover for this kind of violence as they invoke the name of George Floyd.

 

[Integrityrespec]

We're discussing the insurrection. There's no excuse for it.

Street violence, looting, arson, assault, being ignored by city officials and claimed to be mythical by some members of the democrat party hierarchy. There is no excuse for it. Not George Floyd, not Breonna Taylor, not claims of systemic racism. None of that justifies what is happening nightly in many american cities controlled by democrat leaders. All of this in the name of justice, fairness, opportunity and improving America. Funny way of improvement.

 

[Binary_Digit]

I understand what BLM is protesting; police brutality/racism. I don't deny that it exists.
That's a completely different thing in theory though than what I have addressed above.

Then perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by this (bold mine):

It's not the left's solution to pretend that criminal activity, looting, arson, violence is 1) not happening, 2) looting is reparations and justified 3) a result of widespread police injustice.

Instead of insulting those of us who demand law and order in our cities, take your complaints up with those who are using the BLM platform as an excuse to commit crime. That's who you should be pointing your finger at.

In this thread and others I've called the rioters misguided, chumps, jerks, assholes, and probably a few other things. But they're not my focus because it's a waste of time. It's obvious to anyone worth talking to that they are wrong. But understanding and condoning are not the same thing. I just don't want the legitimate part of this thing to go the way of #metoo and get hijacked into marginality by idiot extremists with idiotic expectations, to include BLM organizers and those who claim to speak for the George Floyd et.al movement.

Also while you're at it, not all BLM people have good intentions. You don't go around demanding to be heard by saying to the public and store owners that reparations is looting. Not if you want to be taken seriously by me.

That organizer is an idiot. I wish the others would condemn what she said.

 

[Binary_Digit]

I did not say I don't listen to people. I don't listen to any mob of protesters, because the are a mob and most are there for the excitement, their 15 minutes of fame etc. It has been shown time and again that particularly young adults will sign ANY petition put in front of them and agree to about anything if put into the context of protesting. Most are there just to be there and would be there for whatever peer pressure approves of - nothing else.

Mobs - call them whatever name you wish - are specifically about simplicity. They chant whatever told to chat like a religious cult.

Mob mentality can explain much of the rioting but nothing can change the fact this all started with perceived police misconduct. Riots in Wisconsin over a accusation of police misconduct (that turned out to be BS) doesn't seem like peer pressure to me. It seems like exactly what I've been saying: anger over police misconduct. In many cases it's devolving like you describe but the anger over police misconduct is not changed or erased by that. Not listening to that, just because a mob is also saying it, doesn't solve anything.

I can be persuaded and can acknowledge being mistaken or in the wrong - often even admit so towards adversarial posters on the forum or when I just mix them up. This causes me no ego problems. But I make my decisions on upon actual facts and most of all my own experiences, what I personally see and hear. The line from the movie: A person is smart but people are stupid" comes to mind.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it." - Men in Black

Excellent movie, thanks for the reference.

What more do they want? Police are being arrested and charged with murder when even if a fact the officer did exactly nothing himself - arrested and declared guilty merely for being there and a police officer.

My guess:

- Choke holds still not banned nationwide.
- Knee restraints still not banned nationwide.
- No-knock raids still not banned nationwide.
- Body cams and dash cams still not mandatory nationwide.
- Qualified Immunity still not overhauled.
- Independent misconduct review board still not implemented nationwide.
- Civil Asset Forfeiture still not repealed nationwide.

 

[trixare4kids]

Then perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by this (bold mine):




In this thread and others I've called the rioters misguided, chumps, jerks, assholes, and probably a few other things. But they're not my focus because it's a waste of time. It's obvious to anyone worth talking to that they are wrong. But understanding and condoning are not the same thing. I just don't want the legitimate part of this thing to go the way of #metoo and get hijacked into marginality by idiot extremists with idiotic expectations, to include BLM organizers and those who claim to speak for the George Floyd et.al movement.


That organizer is an idiot. I wish the others would condemn what she said.

Nothing I wrote above should be confusing for you.

 

[MaryP]

WTF about any of this nonsense. Anarchists are just looking for any reason they can find, which is odd, because the only reason they need is that they are anarchists.

They instigate it, but they couldn't get the crowds without an excuse.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Nothing I wrote above should be confusing for you.

Ok. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Court Jester]

I'm sorry if other peoples' anger over widespread injustice is inconvenient for you, your grace!

Their anger is their business, it is no concern of mine, especially while I am sitting at a restaurant enjoying my meal. So, unless those a-holes want to feel a good dose of my anger, they need to back off or move along.

What about the tens of millions of people who are 100% peaceful on this message?

It is their responsibility to police their own movement. If they want to fly a "BLM" banner, but others flying the same banner are out burning, looting, and murdering, then that sticks to them too. Until they can get control of their movement, then they are responsible for things done in their name.

Are you sure you're not just using the rioters as an excuse to ignore the problem?

Well, for one there is NO problem where a criminal suspect does some dumb azz stuff and ends up being shot and/or killed. The criminal created the "problem" not the police. I'm not talking about George Floyed even despite him being another low life criminal on drugs out committing crimes. He still should not have been killed; he was in handcuffs; there was no reason to stand on his neck.

BUT that was a conversation most of us were willing to have, we were on your side in that moment, but your side squandered that moment after YOUR side rioted and then futher allowed for or excused violence. So now don't be so shocked that many of us are done hearing the whining.

How many decades do people need to try that before it's acceptable to throw the tea in the harbor, in your opinion?

Black folk want to "throw the tea in the harbor"---well, don't be surprised if the people who own the tea don't have something to say about it. Is BLM ready to fight a revolution? They willing to "winter and Valley Forge" or are they just interested in rioting, vandalism, looting, shouting, occupying, and other bad behavior? Because if they really want a revolution.. well, that takes another level of commitment. Ain't no Starbucks in a foxhole. This ought to be entertaining.

Laughable. You'll never do ****. You're not going to engage in the systemic oppression you champion.

Don't kid yourself, I will react when threatened as the situation may require-- and have done so many times. Your BLM/occupy/Antifa types are being fooled by the weak passive liberal responses in liberal cities. Not all of us are man bun wearing emasculated wimps. I'd like to see these diptards storm into a steakhouse in Amarillo Texas and see how many patrons they can intimidate into making a losers matter fist? But they won't do that. They are drunk on the success of intimidating a bunch of weak sister liberal white people with their stupid "silence is violence" mantra. LOL "silence is violence". These people are willing to say just about any stupid s*** aren't they?

You demand other people do your genocide for you.

Sorry if I don't consider criminals and other ghetto thugs winning "Darwin awards" as being "genocide". I have a much different definition of that term.

 

[Deuce]

I said NOTHING about condoning police brutality so don't use crap pretzel logic with me...
And I will put you down as just another sadly confused person who doesn't want to see law and order returned to our cities.

Without major overhaul of our criminal justice system, that's what you're going to end up with. Condoned or not, this is the result of your proposals.

 

[Deuce]

Because you’re only interested in understanding the criminal conduct of people you’re sympathetic to. When it’s someone you have a problem with, you have have no trouble condemning it and couldn’t give a **** why it happened.

Provide an example of what you think would be equivalent.

 

[Deuce]

The underlying causes for looting is greed. It really is that simple. The underlying cause for destroying other people's property is threefold: boredom, the adrenaline rush and a sense of power, that they can hurt other people at will. A lot of us have had lousy childhoods, so let's not start with that, or "lack of opportunity." Thanks!!

You don't think anyone ever steals out of necessity instead of greed? That's adorable. Like children who watch too many cartoons on saturday morning. It's just "good guys" and "bad guys" to you people.

 

[trixare4kids]

Without major overhaul of our criminal justice system, that's what you're going to end up with. Condoned or not, this is the result of your proposals.

Too bad that I don't share your vision...

 

[Logophile]

You don't think anyone ever steals out of necessity instead of greed? That's adorable. Like children who watch too many cartoons on saturday morning. It's just "good guys" and "bad guys" to you people.

There's no point in your condescension or the "you people" bit or all the rest of the nonsense. No, I don't think looting - I expressly said looting - is due to necessity. And frankly, I don't think anybody looking at photographs or videos of rioters breaking windows to grab televisions thinks that either. These aren't scenes out of Oliver Twist. These are scenes of well fed, well clothed miscreants destroying property and stealing high end stuff because they think their numbers will shield them during their arson and thieving sprees. Thanks!!

 

[joko104]

Mob mentality can explain much of the rioting but nothing can change the fact this all started with perceived police misconduct. Riots in Wisconsin over a accusation of police misconduct (that turned out to be BS) doesn't seem like peer pressure to me. It seems like exactly what I've been saying: anger over police misconduct. In many cases it's devolving like you describe but the anger over police misconduct is not changed or erased by that. Not listening to that, just because a mob is also saying it, doesn't solve anything.


"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it." - Men in Black

Excellent movie, thanks for the reference.


My guess:

- Choke holds still not banned nationwide.
- Knee restraints still not banned nationwide.
- No-knock raids still not banned nationwide.
- Body cams and dash cams still not mandatory nationwide.
- Qualified Immunity still not overhauled.
- Independent misconduct review board still not implemented nationwide.
- Civil Asset Forfeiture still not repealed nationwide.

Choke holds should not be banned.
Knee restraints should not be banned.
No knock drug busts should be banned.
Police wearing camcorders should be required.
Qualified immunity needs to be changes.
Grand juries are an independent review board
Civil forfeiture should not be allowed with a warrant and burden of proof strictly on the government/police.
Taxpayers should not be liable for criminal conduct by police.

I don't know if it still exists, but the old Texas Constitution allowed anyone to refer any felony crime they believe someone committed to a grand jury without requiring the DA's permission or agreement. That should apply everywhere.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

Then perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by this (bold mine):




In this thread and others I've called the rioters misguided, chumps, jerks, assholes, and probably a few other things. But they're not my focus because it's a waste of time. It's obvious to anyone worth talking to that they are wrong. But understanding and condoning are not the same thing. I just don't want the legitimate part of this thing to go the way of #metoo and get hijacked into marginality by idiot extremists with idiotic expectations, to include BLM organizers and those who claim to speak for the George Floyd et.al movement.

I think it may be too late.

In the immediate aftermath of George Floyd the country seemed universally outraged by what happened. Even the most vocal GOP pom-pom wavers like Sean Hannity were calling for justice. Then the rioting started and pretty soon the people who generally defend the police but in this case staunchly condemned the death of Floyd were taken back by the utter lawlessness and were shocked by the seeming approval of this lawlessness by their elected officials.

The left overplayed this one big time. They(they meaning the mayors and city councils of cities like Minneapolis, Seattle, Portland, etc...) made a calculated decision to cater to their base rather than DO THEIR JOBS.

In short, they re-elected Trump. Congratulations.

 

[Deuce]

Too bad that I don't share your vision...

I know you don't. Because you can't. Accepting even the existence of systemic injustice would invariably force some kind of conflict with your worldview. If you can't accept that systemic injustice even exists, how could you possibly ever talk about addressing the issue?

 

[Deuce]

There's no point in your condescension or the "you people" bit or all the rest of the nonsense. No, I don't think looting - I expressly said looting - is due to necessity. And frankly, I don't think anybody looking at photographs or videos of rioters breaking windows to grab televisions thinks that either. These aren't scenes out of Oliver Twist. These are scenes of well fed, well clothed miscreants destroying property and stealing high end stuff because they think their numbers will shield them during their arson and thieving sprees. Thanks!!

30 million people are in danger of eviction. Open your eyes.

You're welcome!!

 

[Deuce]

Choke holds should not be banned.
Knee restraints should not be banned.
No knock drug busts should be banned.
Police wearing camcorders should be required.
Qualified immunity needs to be changes.
Grand juries are an independent review board
Civil forfeiture should not be allowed with a warrant and burden of proof strictly on the government/police.
Taxpayers should not be liable for criminal conduct by police.

I don't know if it still exists, but the old Texas Constitution allowed anyone to refer any felony crime they believe someone committed to a grand jury without requiring the DA's permission or agreement. That should apply everywhere.

Ahh, agree to everything except the part that mostly kills black people. Interesting.

 

[Acadia]

I think it may be too late.

In the immediate aftermath of George Floyd the country seemed universally outraged by what happened. Even the most vocal GOP pom-pom wavers like Sean Hannity were calling for justice. Then the rioting started and pretty soon the people who generally defend the police but in this case staunchly condemned the death of Floyd were taken back by the utter lawlessness and were shocked by the seeming approval of this lawlessness by their elected officials.

The left overplayed this one big time. They(they meaning the mayors and city councils of cities like Minneapolis, Seattle, Portland, etc...) made a calculated decision to cater to their base rather than DO THEIR JOBS.

In short, they re-elected Trump. Congratulations.

In their blind-rage-driven attempt to get rid of Trump, they once again showed no ability to modulate, no desire to act civilly and no care whatsoever about the collateral damage that would bear down upon America and Americans once the genie got out of the bottle.
"People do what they do".
How's that working out?

 

[Jack Fabulous]

In their blind-rage-driven attempt to get rid of Trump, they once again showed no ability to modulate, no desire to act civilly and no care whatsoever about the collateral damage that would bear down upon America and Americans once the genie got out of the bottle.
"People do what they do".
How's that working out?

The collective lack of self awareness is staggering.

 

[Acadia]

The collective lack of self awareness is staggering.

I think the ring leaders like Pelosi are fully aware of they hypocrisy and their evil, yet she like the rest and those who answer to her believe that total power justifies the death and destruction.