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Minimum Wage vs Living Wage

Moderate Right

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Who says that the minimum wage has to be a living wage?

Do high school and college kids really need to earn a living wage?

Do spouses working to increase family income really need to earn a living wage? (Two spouses incomes added together could be the family living wage)

Do seniors wanting to supplement their income really need to earn a living wage?

Do adult children need a living wage if they wish to live at home with their parents?


And


How do you determine what a living wage is (particularly when different regions would have a different living wage?

There are many people out there who learn to live on $7.25 per hour. That is a living wage for them. There are many people out there who can't live on $50,000 per year. That is not a living wage for them.

Would a worker at McDonalds or Walmart earning $15 per hour, 25 hours per week ($375 per week) be earning a living wage?

How about if they had a working spouse?

How about if they had one kid?

How about if they had five kids?

If they earned this so called living wage does that mean we could drop the currently working poor from all social programs because there would no longer be any working poor anymore? After all, a living wage means that they earn enough to live on so they do not need social programs or a social safety net anymore.
 
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Actually your tread brings up an important point. If the raise the minimum wage
substantially say to $15 a hour, they will tangibly harm millions of senior citizens
who are on fixed incomes.
 
Who says that the minimum wage has to be a living wage?

Do high school and college kids really need to earn a living wage?

Do spouses working to increase family income really need to earn a living wage? (Two spouses incomes added together could be the family living wage)

Do seniors wanting to supplement their income really need to earn a living wage?

Do adult children need a living wage if they wish to live at home with their parents?


And


How do you determine what a living wage is (particularly when different regions would have a different living wage?

There are many people out there who learn to live on $7.25 per hour. That is a living wage for them. There are many people out there who can't live on $50,000 per year. That is not a living wage for them.

Would a worker at McDonalds or Walmart earning $15 per hour, 25 hours per week ($375 per week) be earning a living wage?

How about if they had a working spouse?

How about if they had one kid?

How about if they had five kids?

If they earned this so called living wage does that mean we could drop the currently working poor from all social programs because there would no longer be any working poor anymore? After all, a living wage means that they earn enough to live on so they do not need social programs or a social safety net anymore.

If only there was some way to turn any wage, no matter how small, into a defacto living wage, based on that individual's familial circumstances, while avoiding the pitfalls of unfunded mandates on employers.
 
Who says that the minimum wage has to be a living wage?

Do high school and college kids really need to earn a living wage?

Do spouses working to increase family income really need to earn a living wage? (Two spouses incomes added together could be the family living wage)

Do seniors wanting to supplement their income really need to earn a living wage?

Do adult children need a living wage if they wish to live at home with their parents?


And


How do you determine what a living wage is (particularly when different regions would have a different living wage?

There are many people out there who learn to live on $7.25 per hour. That is a living wage for them. There are many people out there who can't live on $50,000 per year. That is not a living wage for them.

Would a worker at McDonalds or Walmart earning $15 per hour, 25 hours per week ($375 per week) be earning a living wage?

How about if they had a working spouse?

How about if they had one kid?

How about if they had five kids?

If they earned this so called living wage does that mean we could drop the currently working poor from all social programs because there would no longer be any working poor anymore? After all, a living wage means that they earn enough to live on so they do not need social programs or a social safety net anymore.

I'm really not sure why supporters of the "living wage" meme are so anxious to shut the door to employment for so many young people entering the workforce. Are they that connected to the corruption of labor unions like the SEIU?

I understand why local and state politicians have passed such laws, as they are owned by the labor unions who put them in office. But the general support by citizens is baffling. Do they envision young people never working? Is that their vision?
 
Who says that the minimum wage has to be a living wage?

Considering that is the purpose of the minimum wage, and if the minimum wage isn't a living wage, it's meaningless...

Do high school and college kids really need to earn a living wage?

The average age of a minimum wage worker in this country is 35. 88% are older than 20. Yes, they need to earn a living wage.

Do spouses working to increase family income really need to earn a living wage? (Two spouses incomes added together could be the family living wage)

Shouldn't one of those spouses be at home, raising the children?

Do adult children need a living wage if they wish to live at home with their parents?

If they ever plan on moving out, yes, they need a living wage. Many adult children are only living at home because they cannot earn a living wage.

There are many people out there who learn to live on $7.25 per hour. That is a living wage for them.

According to government standards for cost-of-living, a person making minimum wage cannot afford a one-bedroom apartment. It's not a living wage for anyone.

If they earned this so called living wage does that mean we could drop the currently working poor from all social programs because there would no longer be any working poor anymore? After all, a living wage means that they earn enough to live on so they do not need social programs or a social safety net anymore.

That would be the goal, yes. We'd still need programs for people who cannot work, however.

Or we could replace the "minimum wage" with a "citizens' wage" and let employers pay labor based on fair market value.
 
Who says that the minimum wage has to be a living wage?

Do high school and college kids really need to earn a living wage?

Do spouses working to increase family income really need to earn a living wage? (Two spouses incomes added together could be the family living wage)

Do seniors wanting to supplement their income really need to earn a living wage?

Do adult children need a living wage if they wish to live at home with their parents?


And


How do you determine what a living wage is (particularly when different regions would have a different living wage?

There are many people out there who learn to live on $7.25 per hour. That is a living wage for them. There are many people out there who can't live on $50,000 per year. That is not a living wage for them.

Would a worker at McDonalds or Walmart earning $15 per hour, 25 hours per week ($375 per week) be earning a living wage?

How about if they had a working spouse?

How about if they had one kid?

How about if they had five kids?

If they earned this so called living wage does that mean we could drop the currently working poor from all social programs because there would no longer be any working poor anymore? After all, a living wage means that they earn enough to live on so they do not need social programs or a social safety net anymore.

Why is a minimum or even a living wage a sensible idea? It diverts costs to functions that do not produce the income to pay for the wage and reduces the felt motivation to strive for better employment, where the labor would produce more benefit. And why should an employer be forced to pay for something that the voters want in stead of the voters putting their money, where their mouths are?

Minimum income addresses both drawbacks and solves the cost question of social bureaucracies.
 
Who says that the minimum wage has to be a living wage?

Do high school and college kids really need to earn a living wage?

Do spouses working to increase family income really need to earn a living wage? (Two spouses incomes added together could be the family living wage)

Do seniors wanting to supplement their income really need to earn a living wage?

Do adult children need a living wage if they wish to live at home with their parents?


And


How do you determine what a living wage is (particularly when different regions would have a different living wage?

There are many people out there who learn to live on $7.25 per hour. That is a living wage for them. There are many people out there who can't live on $50,000 per year. That is not a living wage for them.

Would a worker at McDonalds or Walmart earning $15 per hour, 25 hours per week ($375 per week) be earning a living wage?

How about if they had a working spouse?

How about if they had one kid?

How about if they had five kids?

If they earned this so called living wage does that mean we could drop the currently working poor from all social programs because there would no longer be any working poor anymore? After all, a living wage means that they earn enough to live on so they do not need social programs or a social safety net anymore.

No reasonable person is saying the MW *has* to be $15/hr. They are saying it *should* be based on what they believe is best for the nation. Also, social programs are not limited to helping the working poor. They also help the elderly, the sick and disabled, etc

However, your point about how different regions have different cost of living is a valid point but I think most people who support raising the MW would consider adjustments based on regional COL
 
Considering that is the purpose of the minimum wage, and if the minimum wage isn't a living wage, it's meaningless...



The average age of a minimum wage worker in this country is 35. 88% are older than 20. Yes, they need to earn a living wage.



Shouldn't one of those spouses be at home, raising the children?



If they ever plan on moving out, yes, they need a living wage. Many adult children are only living at home because they cannot earn a living wage.



According to government standards for cost-of-living, a person making minimum wage cannot afford a one-bedroom apartment. It's not a living wage for anyone.



That would be the goal, yes. We'd still need programs for people who cannot work, however.

Or we could replace the "minimum wage" with a "citizens' wage" and let employers pay labor based on fair market value.

I didn't know it was a businesses duty to pay people more than their skills and market value are worth.
 
No reasonable person is saying the MW *has* to be $15/hr. They are saying it *should* be based on what they believe is best for the nation. Also, social programs are not limited to helping the working poor. They also help the elderly, the sick and disabled, etc

However, your point about how different regions have different cost of living is a valid point but I think most people who support raising the MW would consider adjustments based on regional COL

So the forces spending millions to push for a $15 minimum wage are not reasonable? I agree.

https://15now.org/tag/15-minimum-wage/

Lift Up CA Wages | United Healthcare Workers West

Los Angeles now largest city with $15 minimum wage - Jun. 14, 2015

MoveOn Petitions - Raise Oregon's Minimum Wage to $15 Now

Cleveland councilmen propose phased-in approach to city's $15 minimum wage plan | cleveland.com

So do you think the liberal/socialist progressive powers will allow reasonable people to have a voice, or will the unions and politicians they control continue with the unilateral action that is shutting the door to employment for young first time workers?
 
Who says that the minimum wage has to be a living wage?Do high school and college kids really need to earn a living wage?Do spouses working to increase family income really need to earn a living wage? (Two spouses incomes added together could be the family living wage)Do seniors wanting to supplement their income really need to earn a living wage?Do adult children need a living wage if they wish to live at home with their parents?AndHow do you determine what a living wage is (particularly when different regions would have a different living wage?There are many people out there who learn to live on $7.25 per hour. That is a living wage for them. There are many people out there who can't live on $50,000 peryear.That is not a living wage for them.Would a worker at McDonalds or Walmart earning $15 per hour, 25 hours per week ($375 per week) be earning a living wage? How about if they had a working spouse? How about if they had one kid?How about if they had five kids?If they earned this so called living wage does that mean we could drop the currently working poor from all social programs because there would no longer be any working poor anymore? After all, a living wage means that they earn enough to live on so they do not need social programs or a social safety net anymore.
It never ceases to amaze that some will expose their ignorance by indulging in rhetorical displays.
 
The minimum wage should be high enough that if you are working 40 hours a week you should be able to live on it. No, somebody who only works part-time, like students and retired people, won't likely make enough to live on but they likely don't need to. But if you are a student or "retired" AND working 40 hours a week? Hell yeah, you should be able to live on it, because that is probably why you are working that much in that situation anyway.
 
I didn't know it was a businesses duty to pay people more than their skills and market value are worth.

And I didn't know it was the taxpayers' duty to subsidize massive and highly profitable multinational corporations with income support programs that allow them to pay wages that are so low people can't survive on them economically.
 
I didn't know it was a businesses duty to pay people more than their skills and market value are worth.
I didn't know that "business" was the one to determine market value. Your argument assumes govt has no input.
 
The minimum wage should be high enough that if you are working 40 hours a week you should be able to live on it

Cool. You can already do that.

What I think you mean instead is that you want a minimum wage to be enough to raise a family with a standard of living that is closer to the lower-income portion of our middle class lifestyle.

No, somebody who only works part-time, like students and retired people, won't likely make enough to live on but they likely don't need to. But if you are a student or "retired" AND working 40 hours a week? Hell yeah, you should be able to live on it, because that is probably why you are working that much in that situation anyway.

:shrug: when I was MW I worked full time (but was a Student). Then I was salaried, effectively working below MW, but my job fed me and housed me (say what you will about the Marine Barracks, but they are affordable).
 
or will the unions and politicians they control continue with the unilateral action.....

Union_Membership_1930-2004.jpg
 
And I didn't know it was the taxpayers' duty to subsidize massive and highly profitable multinational corporations with income support programs that allow them to pay wages that are so low people can't survive on them economically.

:shrug: then they don't have to. If the taxpayers don't want a social safety net, then they don't have to pay for one - they're free to vote it away (I would generally oppose such measures, but that's self-government for you).

But the narrative that somehow by providing that safety net we are subsidizing employers offering lower wages than they otherwise would is laughable. If anything, the effect is the opposite - as social safety net payments reduce the marginal benefit for working, they lower the willingness to do so at lower wages.
 
Then I was salaried, effectively working below MW, but my job fed me and housed me (say what you will about the Marine Barracks, but they are affordable).
BS, you were compensated far above MW when all benefits are inputed.
 
BS, you were compensated far above MW when all benefits are inputed.

Hm. As a PFC in the Marine Corps? It's possible. That, of course, means that everyone who makes MW is also "making above MW "when all benefits are imputed".


Hey! :) Ya'll can stop complaining about how low the MW is now! :)
 
Hm. As a PFC in the Marine Corps? It's possible. That, of course, means that everyone who makes MW is also "making above MW "when all benefits are imputed".


Hey! :) Ya'll can stop complaining about how low the MW is now! :)


So, I went back and did a rough calculation - in Iraq, as a Jr Lance, I was making somewhere between $4.79 an hour in pay. If you add in the rough value of the health and life insurance, that adds an additional $1.75. I was also given broccoli and cheese hot pockets and bottled water every day, and had a rack to sleep on the nights when we weren't out on a mission. Oh. And occasionally we got miniature rip-its (a knockoff energy drink).
 
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But the narrative that somehow by providing that safety net we are subsidizing employers offering lower wages than they otherwise would is laughable. If anything, the effect is the opposite - as social safety net payments reduce the marginal benefit for working, they lower the willingness to do so at lower wages.
So when you were receiving benefits other than wages as a Marine, this caused you to not work as hard.
 
Who says that the minimum wage has to be a living wage?

Do high school and college kids really need to earn a living wage?

Do spouses working to increase family income really need to earn a living wage? (Two spouses incomes added together could be the family living wage)

Do seniors wanting to supplement their income really need to earn a living wage?

Do adult children need a living wage if they wish to live at home with their parents?


And


How do you determine what a living wage is (particularly when different regions would have a different living wage?

There are many people out there who learn to live on $7.25 per hour. That is a living wage for them. There are many people out there who can't live on $50,000 per year. That is not a living wage for them.

Would a worker at McDonalds or Walmart earning $15 per hour, 25 hours per week ($375 per week) be earning a living wage?

How about if they had a working spouse?

How about if they had one kid?

How about if they had five kids?

If they earned this so called living wage does that mean we could drop the currently working poor from all social programs because there would no longer be any working poor anymore? After all, a living wage means that they earn enough to live on so they do not need social programs or a social safety net anymore.

What's happened is that illegals and others in the flood of immigration have made careers out of Mcdonalds and taken over good trades and crappy employers have set a precedent of "minimum wage" for people raising families. So as the cost of living has spiraled out of control, crappy employers have kept wages down and voila! minimum wage is not enough.
 
Hm. As a PFC in the Marine Corps? It's possible. That, of course, means that everyone who makes MW is also "making above MW "when all benefits are imputed". Hey! :) Ya'll can stop complaining about how low the MW is now! :)
The problem for you is that you received all benefits without needing to request, whereas the civilian systems require enrollment, many do not. It is not automatic. The point remains, you won't honestly calculate YOUR full pay.

So, I went back and did a rough calculation - in Iraq, as a Jr Lance, I was making somewhere between $4.79 and $5.13 an hour in pay.
I see once again you refuse to calculate your full benefits, housing, food medical...ect.
 
What exactly is a "livable wage".

Is it a wage in which you can survive? Because the argument certainly can be made that todays minimum wage is a surviving wage.

but what is a livable wage?
 
The minimum wage should be high enough that if you are working 40 hours a week you should be able to live on it. No, somebody who only works part-time, like students and retired people, won't likely make enough to live on but they likely don't need to. But if you are a student or "retired" AND working 40 hours a week? Hell yeah, you should be able to live on it, because that is probably why you are working that much in that situation anyway.

The minimum wage should be high enough so that you personally are willing to accept it, and low enough so that the employer personally is willing to pay it. That takes care of everybody's problems and motivation. Except those who think government should solve their problems.
 
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