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Minimum Wage vs Living Wage

ocean515 said:
How does your graph address the relationship and influence of Public Sector Union activity on the politicians who are passing the legislation?
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You tell me:

nominalvsrealminwage_large.png
 
jimbo said:
The minimum wage should be high enough so that you personally are willing to accept it, and low enough so that the employer personally is willing to pay it. That takes care of everybody's problems and motivation. Except those who think government should solve their problems.
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that of course defeats the purpose of having a minimum wage.. and we do need a minimum wage.
 
mmi said:
And I didn't know it was the taxpayers' duty to subsidize massive and highly profitable multinational corporations with income support programs that allow them to pay wages that are so low people can't survive on them economically.
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Always it is with you the silly corperate welfare fail.
 
jaeger19 said:
What exactly is a "livable wage".

Is it a wage in which you can survive? Because the argument certainly can be made that todays minimum wage is a surviving wage.

but what is a livable wage?
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Ah, here we go again with the "survive" nonsense, where you think 3 adults to a bedroom should be the norm.
 
jaeger19 said:
that of course defeats the purpose of having a minimum wage.. and we do need a minimum wage.
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The first part is correct. The second is my point.

No we don't. We need better educated and motivated people.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I didn't know that "business" was the one to determine market value. Your argument assumes govt has no input.
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Uhm... yeah since they are "buying" the services of the workers. Government should stay the **** out.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
The problem for you is that you received all benefits without needing to request, whereas the civilian systems require enrollment, many do not. It is not automatic. The point remains, you won't honestly calculate YOUR full pay.
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On the contrary, typically compensation packages are part of the offer, and standardized for employers.

I see once again you refuse to calculate your full benefits, housing, food medical...ect.
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Actually I went back and added medical and life/disability. It's an interesting question. Let's see - food. I got two hot pockets for lunch and two for dinner for most of my time there, along with a thing of cereal/and/or scoop of fake eggs for breakfast. So that's about $6 a day. I had a rack with a mattress on it, so, that's about $80, but I also had a sheet, so we'll call it $100.

So... depending on the week, when you add in food, bunk, health, life/disability, and pay, I'm coming out to between $6.95 and $7.44 an hour, with more weeks on the $6.95 schedule (as that was standard ops) than on the $7.44 schedule (as that was more down-time). But if you add in the cost of bottled water it goes up to $$7.58 to $8.12.

So yes. Just like every other MW job, when you add in all the benefits, it comes out to greater than simply the wage alone. :)
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Ah, here we go again with the "survive" nonsense, where you think 3 adults to a bedroom should be the norm.
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]

I lived with three adults in a bedroom. I survived.

What is wrong with that?

Please explain exactly what a livable wage is and how you calculate that.
 
ocean515 said:
When you chose to answer my question, I will respond. Your graph is meaningless.
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The fact that you can't accept that MW has declined in real terms, and correlates well with the decline in union membership, and answers your rhetorical question on the influence of unions on (MW) "legislation"......is not my problem.
 
cpwill said:
On the contrary, typically compensation packages are part of the offer, and standardized for employers.
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Uh...dood....we are talking about MW employment, there is no "compensation package".

So... depending on the week, when you add in food, bunk, health, life/disability, and pay, I'm coming out to between $6.95 and $7.44 an hour
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Of course you are...
 
jet57 said:
What's happened is that illegals and others in the flood of immigration have made careers out of Mcdonalds and taken over good trades and crappy employers have set a precedent of "minimum wage" for people raising families. So as the cost of living has spiraled out of control, crappy employers have kept wages down and voila! minimum wage is not enough.
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Illegals are a government problem. One that the government fails to address. The same government that somehow is qualified to determine how much a persons labor is worth.
 
jaeger19 said:
]

I lived with three adults in a bedroom. I survived.
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Dittos. Nor am I certain why we should deliberately confuse "average" and "minimum". Of course the minimum wage isn't the norm. Iit's the minimum.
 
jaeger19 said:
hmmm... why? It was not illegal where I lived.
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Most cities do not allow landlords to rent at more than 2 adults per bedroom....but then, survival for you is to live illegally......remember?
 
Gimmesometruth said:
The fact that you can't accept that MW has declined in real terms, and correlates well with the decline in union membership, and answers your rhetorical question on the influence of unions on (MW) "legislation"......is not my problem.
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I have made no claims about MW declines. I've commented on the influence of Unions on politicians who are bowing to their demand to unilaterally pass new MW laws.

I have provided links to examples of various legislative bodies bowing to this demand, and you have provided meaningless graphs.

I suspect more meaningless posts will follow from you, so I will bow to my better judgment and avoid any further waste of my time.

Have a nice day.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Uh...dood....we are talking about MW employment, there is no "compensation package".
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Sure there is. For example, lots of such places offer in-store discounts to employees, as well as providing things such as water (which I scored for myself) to them during working hours.

So... depending on the week, when you add in food, bunk, health, life/disability, and pay, I'm coming out to between $6.95 and $7.44 an hour
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Of course you are...
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I am. You don't like it because, for some odd reason, you thought that attacking me on this would somehow delegitimize my arguments, but that's the math.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Somilia, as an example.....oh....wait...
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Oh lets be absurd look how witty we are! Government HAS a place, so take that childishly immature "somalia" bull**** and save it for your coffee house blathering. Government involvement, especially federal should be as minmal as possible.
 
ocean515 said:
I have made no claims about MW declines.
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I did not say you did.
I've commented on the influence of Unions on politicians who are bowing to their demand to unilaterally pass new MW laws.
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I just showed the historical level of REAL MW, showing that it declined in REAL terms since 1968. Your question was how were unions influencing MW, obviously, not much. Not even a picture got that across.
I have provided links to examples of various legislative bodies bowing to this demand, and you have provided meaningless graphs.
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So lets be clear, since '68 MW declined and it has only been in the last few years where populist/grassroot movements has caused MW legislation to start to cause MW to regain a level not seen since 1968.

I suspect more meaningless posts will follow from you, so I will bow to my better judgment and avoid any further waste of my time.

Have a nice day.
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I would not expect anything other than you to admit to not being able to understand a simple point about REAL MW levels (a VERY simple economic concept) and then run away from the debate.
 
Renae said:
Oh lets be absurd look how witty we are! Government HAS a place, so take that childishly immature "somalia" bull**** and save it for your coffee house blathering. Government involvement, especially federal should be as minmal as possible.
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Yer subjective level of "minmal" govt doesn't go the Somalia levels....yet you can't say when yer utopia happened...in relation to MW.
 
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