Minimum Wage BS

[lolabird]

How do you know he's greedy?
And how do you know we're imbeciles?

It's a given, I read your posts.

 

[Kermz]

The employer does not owe their employee a living wage. They owe them compensation for their work.

Also, what is this whole notion that the 40 hour work week should qualify you (and your family) for a decent living? There's people that work 2 or 3 jobs all 7 days and may only take a day off once in awhile. It's up to the individual and their situation. Say there's a company that is looking for employees to do a low skilled job that most people could do, but they want the ones that are willing to work the most hours. I'm willing to work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, so my application goes to the top of the pile, since most people want only 8 hours 5 or 6 days. But wait, they just passed a law saying you must limit employees to 8 hours a day, or pay them time and a half (overtime) for any hour past that. Suddenly, they change their whole game plan and my application goes to the bottom of the pile. I am now equal with the applicants who are willing to do less then me. And plus they just raised the minimum wage, so now they're accepting fewer applicants and are now becoming much more careful in their hiring process. There's one spot left in the company, and it's between me and my HS diploma and a guy with, say, an art history degree with similar work experience. They most likely will pick him, seeing as my willingness to work more hours is no longer a factor.

I also want to add that in addition to min. wage I see first hand how overtime laws hurt the worker that wants to get that extra couple hours worth of money. Many companies limit their employees to 8 hours because they don't want to pay overtime, which would be more then that employee's work is worth. An $8 job suddenly becomes a $12 job.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Mike Dukes, CEO of Walmart, earns $16,826.92/hour, which does not include his performance awards. He sleeps like a baby a night, and why wouldn't he? He has no conscious for the needs of the people working for him; those who cannot afford to properly feed their families. Why in the world would he desire to provide healthcare to anyone other than his own family?
The needs of society is not Dukes problem, and someone like Barack Obama, who transcends greed, desires like so many of us, for every American to be able to afford healthcare. So in order to circumvent paying money for the poor and needy, the altruistic people like Dukes, cut wages.
James Madison, the principal author of our Constitution, believed that the role of our government was to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. Dukes and the Koch Brothers have done a splendid job, wouldn't you agree?
Let's keep blaming Obamacare.

Unless you are Mrs. Dukes, you know squat about Mr. Dukes.

 

[lolabird]

The employer does not owe their employee a living wage. They owe them compensation for their work.

Also, what is this whole notion that the 40 hour work week should qualify you (and your family) for a decent living? There's people that work 2 or 3 jobs all 7 days and may only take a day off once in awhile. It's up to the individual and their situation. Say there's a company that is looking for employees to do a low skilled job that most people could do, but they want the ones that are willing to work the most hours. I'm willing to work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, so my application goes to the top of the pile, since most people want only 8 hours 5 or 6 days. But wait, they just passed a law saying you must limit employees to 8 hours a day, or pay them time and a half (overtime) for any hour past that. Suddenly, they change their whole game plan and my application goes to the bottom of the pile. I am now equal with the applicants who are willing to do less then me. And plus they just raised the minimum wage, so now they're accepting fewer applicants and are now becoming much more careful in their hiring process. There's one spot left in the company, and it's between me and my HS diploma and a guy with, say, an art history degree with similar work experience. They most likely will pick him, seeing as my willingness to work more hours is no longer a factor.

I also want to add that in addition to min. wage I see first hand how overtime laws hurt the worker that wants to get that extra couple hours worth of money. Many companies limit their employees to 8 hours because they don't want to pay overtime, which would be more then that employee's work is worth. An $8 job suddenly becomes a $12 job.

 

[lolabird]

Unless you are Mrs. Dukes, you know squat about Mr. Dukes.

Are you trying to tell us you have a secret?

 

[Vern]

If you'd like a thread to be based on certain parameters you're free to start one. Strange that you'd object so strongly to mine and post anyway. I envy your spare time.

Brooks, I had no objections to your thread. I had objections to your flawed premise and math skills. I had to remind/inform you that in America that a 40 hour 5 day work week is the norm. And since you are looking for helpful criticism, try to make your point clear and back it up. The title of the thread is “minimum wage BS”. Whats the BS? having a minimum wage? trying to increase the minimum wage?

But to get this out of the abstract, in dollars, what is a "livable wage"?
I'm betting you don't have an answer.

I’ve made no attempt to argue “livable wage” or define it. And neither have you. It seems to be your issue (see above about making a clear point and backing it up).

Thanks for the constant reminders that we don't live in Somalia. That didn't get old at all.

Thanks, I enjoyed it too. But at least you’ll never again pretend not to know that in America a 40 hour 5 day work week is the norm.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Are you trying to tell us you have a secret?

I'm not trying to tell you anything other than what I wrote.

 

[lolabird]

I'm not trying to tell you anything other than what I wrote.

So how would you know what another woman other than his wife may or may know about him?

 

[EdwinWillers]

Mike Dukes, CEO of Walmart, earns $16,826.92/hour, which does not include his performance awards. He sleeps like a baby a night, and why wouldn't he? He has no conscious for the needs of the people working for him; those who cannot afford to properly feed their families. Why in the world would he desire to provide healthcare to anyone other than his own family?
The needs of society is not Dukes problem, and someone like Barack Obama, who transcends greed, desires like so many of us, for every American to be able to afford healthcare. So in order to circumvent paying money for the poor and needy, the altruistic people like Dukes, cut wages.
James Madison, the principal author of our Constitution, believed that the role of our government was to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. Dukes and the Koch Brothers have done a splendid job, wouldn't you agree?
Let's keep blaming Obamacare.

I read this [part in bold] and nearly vomited. Barack Obama, who transcends greed? It's asinine partisan crap like this that transcends common sense.

Never mind the fact that Barack Obama virtually defines greed, and avarice, and envy, and jealousy and a host of other degenerate human weaknesses his ideology has incarnated in those who swallow it.

And you know what - PROOF of that greed, avarice, envy, and jealousy is demonstrated in posts like this one that start with absurdly telltale clauses like "Mike Dukes, CEO of Walmart, earns $16,826.02 / hour." What do you care what he makes? Or anyone makes for that matter? What business is it of yours? Seriously! What business is it what he (or anyone else) makes - or DOESN"T make!

NEVER, never have I seen such a demonstrable lack of faith in everything but the puerile love of money, and gimmes, and handouts, and freebies, and entitlements...

...just makes me want to puke; the depths of irresponsibility and abject fear into which some people will so eagerly descend....

 

[lolabird]

I read this [part in bold] and nearly vomited. Barack Obama, who transcends greed? It's asinine partisan crap like this that transcends common sense.

Never mind the fact that Barack Obama virtually defines greed, and avarice, and envy, and jealousy and a host of other degenerate human weaknesses his ideology has incarnated in those who swallow it.

And you know what - PROOF of that greed, avarice, envy, and jealousy is demonstrated in posts like this one that start with absurdly telltale clauses like "Mike Dukes, CEO of Walmart, earns $16,826.02 / hour." What do you care what he makes? Or anyone makes for that matter? What business is it of yours? Seriously! What business is it what he (or anyone else) makes - or DOESN"T make!

NEVER, never have I seen such a demonstrable lack of faith in everything but the puerile love of money, and gimmes, and handouts, and freebies, and entitlements...

...just makes me want to puke; the depths of irresponsibility and abject fear into which some people will so eagerly descend....

Shareholders have a right to know Dukes salary. American citizens have a right to know the President's salary, as well as salaries for the members of Congress.
Wear a blindfold if you like, but most taxpayers want to know how their monies are distributed, and retirees who have worked most of their lives are most definitely entitled to receive their social security and Medicare benefits.
Speaking of the depths of irresponsibility, Wall Street, an example of puerility for money, caused the housing collapse and were rewarded by being bailed out by Bush. Knowing that should make you regurgitate the Kool-Aid you've swallowed.

 

[Master PO]

Mike Dukes, CEO of Walmart, earns $16,826.92/hour, which does not include his performance awards. He sleeps like a baby a night, and why wouldn't he? He has no conscious for the needs of the people working for him; those who cannot afford to properly feed their families. Why in the world would he desire to provide healthcare to anyone other than his own family?
The needs of society is not Dukes problem, and someone like Barack Obama, who transcends greed, desires like so many of us, for every American to be able to afford healthcare. So in order to circumvent paying money for the poor and needy, the altruistic people like Dukes, cut wages.
James Madison, the principal author of our Constitution, believed that the role of our government was to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. Dukes and the Koch Brothers have done a splendid job, wouldn't you agree?
Let's keep blaming Obamacare.

if you are going to state Mr. Madison beliefs [referring to the statement you posted]....then do it correctly please.

Madison on protecting the minority from the majority, ........is about the evils of democracy and its majority rule.........meaning to prevent "we the people having all direct power"... to vote to embellish ourselves with whatever whims and desires we wish at the expense of other citizens, ..the minority.

that is why america was created with republican government.........and not democratic government, which is a............"vile form of government"---James madison

 

[lolabird]

if you are going to state Mr. Madison beliefs [referring to the statement you posted]....then do it correctly.

Madison on protecting the minority from the majority, ........is about the evils of democracy and its majority rule.........meaning to prevent "we the people having all direct power"... to vote to embellish ourselves with whatever whims and desires we wish at the expense of other citizens, ..the minority.

that is why america was created with republican government.........and not democratic government, which is a............"vile form of government"---James madison

Try to get over yourself.
Madison held that power must be delegated to the wealth of the nation, the more capable set of men, who understand that the role of government is to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority.
In later years he came to fear that severe problems would arise with the likely increase of those who will labor under hardships of life, and secretly sigh for a more equal distribution of its benefits.
History reflects these conflicts over who will make decisions, and how.

 

[Master PO]

Try to get over yourself.
Madison held that power must be delegated to the wealth of the nation, the more capable set of men, who understand that the role of government is to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority.
In later years he came to fear that severe problems would arise with the likely increase of those who will labor under hardships of life, and secretly sigh for a more equal distribution of its benefits.
History reflects these conflicts over who will make decisions, and how.

try to understand madison, and stop putting things in his mouth which are not true.

democracy means majority rule, and Madison was dead set against democratic government as stated in federalist 10, which is why we have republican government.

protecting the minority from the majority, was the goal of our mixed Constitution, which is why the senate was an aristocracy, before the 17th amendment........legislators appointing men who understood the nature of governments......which is were you get this you stated.."capable set of men, who understand that the role of government is to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority".......the idea being the senate would be the first bulwark against majority rule, and the USSC being the second bulwark.

to try and tied a CEO to Madison ideas is ridiculous.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

So how would you know what another woman other than his wife may or may know about him?

Create your own fantasies but please post facts.

 

[lolabird]

try to understand madison, and stop putting things in his mouth which are not true.

democracy means majority rule, and Madison was dead set against democratic government as stated in federalist 10, which is why we have republican government.

protecting the minority from the majority, was the goal of our mixed Constitution, which is why the senate was an aristocracy, before the 17th amendment........legislators appointing men who understood the nature of governments......which is were you get this you stated.."capable set of men, who understand that the role of government is to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority".......the idea being the senate would be the first bulwark against majority rule, and the USSC being the second bulwark.

to try and tied a CEO to Madison ideas is ridiculous.

Just because you are capable of reading does not mean you are capable of processing what you read.
Don't give up because you may get it yet.

 

[lolabird]

Create your own fantasies but please post facts.

You made an emphatic statement that unless I was Dukes' wife, I knew nothing about him. Mistresses talk or didn't you know?

 

[Master PO]

Create your own fantasies but please post facts.

really?....OK i will post them from Madison himself, since you will listen to left leaning professors, and not read Madison on words and deeds.

federalist 10--The other point of difference is, the greater number of citizens and extent of territory which may be brought within the compass of republican than of democratic government; and it is this circumstance principally which renders factious combinations less to be dreaded in the former than in the latter.

Madison states here that democratic government is very ( factious, or full of special interest) to limit that faction ,that special interest the founders choose republican government.

the u.s. Constitution article 4 section 4-- The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.

what is republican government, it is a mixed constitution, as stated by Madison.



The Federalist No. 40
On the Powers of the Convention to Form a Mixed Government Examined and Sustained
New York Packet
Friday, January 18, 1788
[James Madison]
To the People of the State of New York:

THE second point to be examined is, whether the [constitutional] convention were authorized to frame and propose this mixed Constitution.

what is mixed government or mixed constitution?

Mixed government, also known as a mixed constitution, is a form of government that integrates elements of democracy, aristocracy, and monarchy. In a mixed government, some issues (often defined in a constitution) are decided by the majority of the people, some other issues by few, and some other issues by a single person (also often defined in a constitution). The idea is commonly treated as an antecedent of separation of powers.


separations of powers?

the house is of (all) the people it is a democracy , the senate is of the (few) states it is an aristocracy.

that aristocracy of the senate is there to stop the collectivist mentality of the people, by being a bulwark against any collectivist ideas..........as Madison states in federalist 63--The true distinction between these and the American governments, lies in the total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from any share in the latter, and not in the total exclusion of the representatives of the people from the administration of the former.

madison states the people can vote collectively for there congressman, however they cannot vote collectively, on whims and desires the people may have to embellish themselves with things, at the expense of the minority.

becuase the senate is the first bulwark against that kind of collectivist activity, and the court being the second..........the senate because its interest are not the same as the house's interest, keep faction, /special interest limited.

 

[jaeger19]

Your're right, and summed up exactly why an overall minimum wage, especially an overly generous one, is unmanageable

But you won't get far inserting common sense into a minimum wage discussion which is why nobody in Washington does.

Just speaking about common sense...

If wages were to say drop to 75 cents an hour.. as they are in mexico, and china and a number of other countries. Places by the way, were American companies are doing business, or purchasing products. What do you think the economy in the US will be like?

How good will the standard of living be.?

You don't think that a minimum wage is a good idea.. well there are countries that have much lower wages... so give me examples of those economies that have much better standards of living.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Just speaking about common sense...

If wages were to say drop to 75 cents an hour.. as they are in mexico, and china and a number of other countries. Places by the way, were American companies are doing business, or purchasing products. What do you think the economy in the US will be like?

How good will the standard of living be.?

You don't think that a minimum wage is a good idea.. well there are countries that have much lower wages... so give me examples of those economies that have much better standards of living.

Without an artificial floor they would settle where individuals would be willing to accept employment...

 

[EdwinWillers]

Shareholders have a right to know Dukes salary. American citizens have a right to know the President's salary, as well as salaries for the members of Congress.
Wear a blindfold if you like, but most taxpayers want to know how their monies are distributed, and retirees who have worked most of their lives are most definitely entitled to receive their social security and Medicare benefits.

Sure they do, but what in the wide wide world of sports does that have to do with how well Mike Dukes sleeps, let alone his conscience?

You don't know Mike Dukes. You certainly don't know his heart, let alone his mind. And from what I'm reading, I doubt even if you did know his mind you'd understand it.

Speaking of the depths of irresponsibility, Wall Street, an example of puerility for money, caused the housing collapse and were rewarded by being bailed out by Bush. Knowing that should make you regurgitate the Kool-Aid you've swallowed.

No it [Wall Street] didn't. Contribute, yes; cause, hardly.

So,
You don't know Mike Dukes.
You don't know how he sleeps.
You don't know his conscience.
You don't know his heart or his mind, let alone what he thinks about his employees.
You don't know what caused the housing collapse.
You don't know me, let alone what I drink (though I'll give you a hint, it ain't Kool Aid).

But it's clear you *think* you do. It's clear you *think* you know all about mind reading, heart analysis, irresponsiblity, greed, envy, callousness over other's needs, puerilty, and the "right to know."

Good for you.

 

[jaeger19]

Without an artificial floor they would settle where individuals would be willing to accept employment...

Accept employment or what?

Just curious.. but what would folks do if the wages offered were not acceptable?

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Accept employment or what?

Just curious.. but what would folks do if the wages offered were not acceptable?

Just what they do now, not work and accept what government offered...

 

[jaeger19]

Just what they do now, not work and accept what government offered...

and what if the government didn't offer anything? what would they do?

 

[AlabamaPaul]

and what if the government didn't offer anything? what would they do?

Get off their ass and earn a living on their own...

 

[jaeger19]

Get off their ass and earn a living on their own...

And that would mean that wages would continue to drop...

Would wages similar to a third world nations be a good thing for the US?