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Millions more workers would be eligible for overtime pay under new federal rule

Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

:shrug: Succeeding in the business world is hard. It's better that they close up shop if they can't compete in order to let more new business ventures that can succeed into the market. I prefer short term losses for long term gains over short term gains for long term losses as it makes the economy healthier over all.

I'm sure the employees of marginally successful businesses share your vision and would gladly give up their job and watch their company sink so that some other person at some other company can get overtime.
 
Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

While that my be true, there are many businesses that are fighting just to stay in business. But you are right, those businesses that aren't the profitable should close. They should just layoff all their employees and liquidate the assets so the owners can enjoy retirement rather than worrying about cutting this expense or trying to find additional revenues.

If you can't afford to properly pay your staff, you can't afford to be in business.
 
Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

What I have not seen here yet, is that many employers give about a 15% bump in pay
when a person moves from hourly to salary, and take it back if the employee goes from
salary to hourly. The is justified saying the employee can make it up with overtime,
they were working anyway.
There is nothing in the law, that says they cannot make this adjustment.
 
Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

I look for black market to grow rapidly. I paid people under the table to avoid overtime, because of taxes it was in everyone's advantage to cut the government out of the deal, so the employees agreed....they wanted to business to live.

If I know who you were, I would turn you in today! Nothing is as chicken **** as an employer cheating workers out of overtime.
 
Good God, talk about bitching if you was hung with a new rope. If you earn 23k a year and are salaried, and if you ever work an hour more than 40 hours in a week, then your employer is getting over on you. The fact that the government was allowing anyone earning 23k a year to work an unlimited number of hours without ever being paid a cent in overtime is practically criminal.

Okay, do you feel the same way if a salaried individual doesn't work forty hours in a given week are they stealing from the company? Are they practically criminal? Or is this a one way street on your screw the employer?

For crying out loud they are moving it up 47k a year. That is not much money. It is less then the median income. I am salaried, and frankly I make a good bit more a year than 47k. However, as someone that is salaried (and works in IT), I usually work more than 40 hours a week. Often a lot more than 40 hours a week. That is fine because I am paid well, and it goes along with the job. I also have some flexibility that goes along with it and if I need to leave early to go to one of my kids games or events, I do. That is not the point of being salaried though. Historically salaried positions were more professional and hourly positions were for labor, trades, and contractors. What some companies have done over the last 25 years or so is move some positions that historically had always been hourly positions and move them to salary so they can extract a lot more than 40 hours a week out of them on average without paying them overtime. If you are making say 30k a year salaried and your employer works you 50 or more hours a week on average - but you get some flexibility - your employer is still getting over on you. The fact that anyone would bitch about the administration doing something about those labor abusive practices just goes to show you how blinded by partisanship some people can be.

Finally, a decent employer has a program for their employees, salaried or not, to take time off for family events and so on. Its called personal days and vacation days. I have been at my current employer for 12 years and have 23 days of vacation and personal days a year now. Of course being taken care of by my employer is why I have worked for them so long and work as hard as I can for them.

Yes. Vacation, Personal Days, and Sick Days. We have them. But there are times as salaried individuals when we don't quite do an on the books day off, or even few days off. After all, if a manager has things together there are times that another manager can handle things for them. It's a two way street. Very few entry level managers have 23 days of vacation. Our entry level managers have 10 vacation days, 3 personal days, and sick days cannot be used for going to a graduation so they aren't relevant. Sometimes they want to use those for something else.
 
One of the things that I enjoyed myself when I was a district manager starting out in the newspaper business was the flexibility offered by my salaried exempt position. Were there weeks that I worked more than forty hours? You bet there were. When I took over my district, I worked in excess of sixty hours a week to get it straightened out but once it was under control? There were many weeks that I took Friday off or only worked a few hours a night. My job was to get all the routes out. The paper didn't care how long that took me to accomplish. It was nice having a consistent salary.

Now, that flexibility will be gone for many entry level and midlevel managers. President Obama's Administration is going to put out a new policy raising the threshold for salaried exempt positions to $47,476 a year which is more than double the current $23,660. It sounds like a good thing, right? I don't think all the managers that will be moving to hourly wages and scheduling will think it is. Many businesses have slow times of the year. This has always been a plus for the salaried exempt entry level managers that they weren't impacted financially by the slow times. That is about to change.

This week, one of the managers at one of our properties took off four days this week to attend her son's graduation. She worked about 15 hours this week. Imagine what a hit that would be? She worked extra last week and plans to next week with her director's approval. They won't have the flexibility soon. Thanks Obama. Let's be honest, this Administration and the left will do anything it can to screw over businesses (job creators).

The true socialist cares not for your well being, but has the whole of society on his mind!
 
Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

You know, this kind of stuff probably wouldn't even be necessary if companies willingly kept wages up with inflation instead of never raising the wages unless forced to by the government.
That's the honest truth to a whole lot of issues. People don't seem to realize that most of our laws are actually reactionary, and only come about because a relative few people with the freedom to do so pushed the envelope too far.
 
Come on, SD. That's a little dramatic. We're talking about adults, exempt employees, making a decent salary in most parts of this country. Nobody is talking about discrimination and child labor and sweatshops.

Two of us have handles in this conversation that could be abbreviated SD, could I ask you to spell it out. I know that you quoted him so that won't be a problem on this one but it could in future posts, especially since we are polar opposites.
 
Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

If I know who you were, I would turn you in today! Nothing is as chicken **** as an employer cheating workers out of overtime.

I'm sure they were illegals and I bet if they were offered amnesty tomorrow they'd still work under the table rather than pay taxes.
 
Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

I look for black market to grow rapidly. I paid people under the table to avoid overtime, because of taxes it was in everyone's advantage to cut the government out of the deal, so the employees agreed....they wanted to business to live.
Black market only thrives in extreme circumstances. I don't see this as being that extreme.
 
Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

You know, this kind of stuff probably wouldn't even be necessary if companies willingly kept wages up with inflation instead of never raising the wages unless forced to by the government.

I don't see that it makes much sense to allow governemnt to interfere at all. Jobs are so different that making "fits all" regulations and laws is ignorant of reality and harmful for the citizens in most cases.
 
Exempt employees can take 3 hours off to go to a doctor, or leave work 2 hours early to go to their kid's dance recital, without seeing a change in their paychecks. Hourly employees get docked pay for that time. As someone who has been an exempt employee for the better part of 30 years, I would much rather have that benefit and know on occasion I will have to work "overtime" (which I've had to do thousands of hours in my career) than have to manage every minute of my day against an hourly wage.

I spoke with one of the District Managers this morning. She tells me that she's still going to her hair appointment on Wednesday afternoon. She'll just find a time to work a little longer. Church appearances, you know.
 
The same is true of a manager (foreman?) of a framing crew - it is nice to know that you will get a full paycheck (vs. 2 hours of "show-up" time per day) during a wetter than usual week.

Yes, many businesses have slow times of the year where an entry level manager or even mid level manager who is under this salary level will be hurt by this. There is no way that companies are going to leave these people salaried non-exempt paying them overtime when they exceed 40 and not deducting when they do work 40. They will be moving to hourly.
 
Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

I'm sure they were illegals and I bet if they were offered amnesty tomorrow they'd still work under the table rather than pay taxes.

You need to go the Las Vegas.
 
Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

If you can't afford to properly pay your staff, you can't afford to be in business.

That's true. You are right. Of course, once you force all the smaller businesses or legacy businesses out of business only the large corporations are going to be able to compete. In the newspaper business we have a saying. When it comes to expense cuts there are only two things that you can cut to move the EBIDA needle... People or Paper. Newsprint just went up $20 a metric ton.
 
Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

You need to go the Las Vegas.

A decade in Social Work qualifies my statement as expert testimony. ;)
 
One of the things that I enjoyed myself when I was a district manager starting out in the newspaper business was the flexibility offered by my salaried exempt position. Were there weeks that I worked more than forty hours? You bet there were. When I took over my district, I worked in excess of sixty hours a week to get it straightened out but once it was under control? There were many weeks that I took Friday off or only worked a few hours a night. My job was to get all the routes out. The paper didn't care how long that took me to accomplish. It was nice having a consistent salary.

Now, that flexibility will be gone for many entry level and midlevel managers. President Obama's Administration is going to put out a new policy raising the threshold for salaried exempt positions to $47,476 a year which is more than double the current $23,660. It sounds like a good thing, right? I don't think all the managers that will be moving to hourly wages and scheduling will think it is. Many businesses have slow times of the year. This has always been a plus for the salaried exempt entry level managers that they weren't impacted financially by the slow times. That is about to change.

This week, one of the managers at one of our properties took off four days this week to attend her son's graduation. She worked about 15 hours this week. Imagine what a hit that would be? She worked extra last week and plans to next week with her director's approval. They won't have the flexibility soon. Thanks Obama. Let's be honest, this Administration and the left will do anything it can to screw over businesses (job creators).
Presuming your experience is true and accurate, you just might be the first salary employee who actually benefited via flex time that I have encountered. Yeah, I know how it's supposed to work, but in both my experiences and observations it pretty much always favors the employer and screws the employee. Average out over the course of a year and the salaried employee either averaged more than 40 hrs per week with those extra hours being freebies, or averaged 39.5 hrs per week and caught serious crap for doing so... and it didn't matter if the 39.5 hr guy got all his work done, he still caught crap for it.
 
Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

That's the honest truth to a whole lot of issues. People don't seem to realize that most of our laws are actually reactionary, and only come about because a relative few people with the freedom to do so pushed the envelope too far.

You really think so? I think that we have all "pushed the envelope" and the result is that we get the consumer goods and prices we wouldn't, if they were produced in the USA. The few, you mention, have nothing to do with it. All they do is allocate the capital to labor, where it makes the most of the investment. In many cases that is Germany or France for prestige trinkets and China or Vietnam for the more mundane stuff like telephones and sweatshirts.
 
Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

The real issue not being addressed is companies intentional miss classification of employees into executive exempt status. When the law was written, it was supposed to apply to executives...people who spent the bulk of their day performing executive level duties. What is happening, has been happening for some time now...is companies are making false titles, and then classifying those filling those positions as overtime exempt. Like making a cashier "manager of operations" of register 6. I've seen it. Or making all sales positions "account managers" in order to cut out the commission. Seen that too. Or making a variety of positions "management", and then adding more and more manual labor to the job. So you go from making 13 an hour, 37.5 hours per week...to making 28 - 30k per year, and working 55-60 hours per week, on average.

This is in no way being addressed. Much the same way Obama care in no way actually addresses healthcare.
 
Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

A decade in Social Work qualifies my statement as expert testimony. ;)

I don't suspect you know **** about illegal workers and what they want. I've worked with hundreds of illegals during the years, according to your standards, that would qualify me a an expert also.
 
This week, one of the managers at one of our properties took off four days this week to attend her son's graduation. She worked about 15 hours this week. Imagine what a hit that would be? She worked extra last week and plans to next week with her director's approval. They won't have the flexibility soon. Thanks Obama. Let's be honest, this Administration and the left will do anything it can to screw over businesses (job creators).

I fail to see how this rule adjustment (and seriously, it only increases the floor at which salaried employees can be exempt from the 40 hour work week without paying overtime) impacts flexibility - at least in regards to working fewer hours. This rule only requires that, if a person works more than 40 hours, that they be compensated for their overtime. There is no corrollary that the individual be paid less for working fewer than 40 hours.

Now, if the companies restructure the employee's contract such that they are now hourly instead of salaried employees, that is their perogative and you could argue that is an unintended consequence of this rule change. I would counter by noting that such a change might make the position less desirable and/or the added time or added income for the workers will still be a net positive.
 
Yes, many businesses have slow times of the year where an entry level manager or even mid level manager who is under this salary level will be hurt by this. There is no way that companies are going to leave these people salaried non-exempt paying them overtime when they exceed 40 and not deducting when they do work 40. They will be moving to hourly.

There is no such thing as a salaried, FLSA non-exempt employee. The law (rule?) does not allow companies to pick and choose what pay rate makes an employee exempt (salaried) or non-exempt (hourly) to the FLSA - the law changes which employees must be treated as an hourly (FLSA non-exempt) employee by raising the minimum salary for any and all FLSA exempt employees.
 
Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

You are absolutely right. Close up the small businesses and those in evolving industries like newspapers. Shut them down. Of course, that means that you have to tell all those people working there that they got a raise but now they are unemployed. Yes, you hit the nail right on the head. Close them down.

And they'll just get a job at the new business that opens up with a better way of doing business. Like I said, long term gains with short term losses are better than short term gains with long term losses.
 
Re: Will this end salaried entry level management positions?

It amazes me the BS surrounding the issues of work and labor.

The law certainly needed to be updated and clarified and Kudos to the Obama administration for doing so.

The idea that workers making 24K a year are being hired to by companies on a salaried position so that when they have down times they can simply go home and make it up later is ludicrous.
Any successful company squeezes out as much in productivity as they can get from their worker. Any employee at that level that's being made salary is being made salary BECAUSE ITS A BENEFIT TO THE COMPANY. NOT to the worker.

I watched my wife get screwed by this. She had a salaried job and was expected to work a weekend every three months to cover patients. In return she got Monday off. So she worked 7 days straight and got one day off. Basically giving a day of work for free. then it became every two months.. then a weekend a month.

Management would say.. when this was brought up..."well you are salaried, when you we are slow then you can take off" isn't it great to have that flexibility". EXCEPT MANAGEMENT CONTROLLED HER CASELOAD AND THE NUMBER OF WORKERS... so she was never, ever "slow".
I calculated that she was working on average 20 days worth of time FOR FREE between scheduled weekends.. being called in and unpaid overtime during the week. .. every year.

Don't even think for a minute that companies are making workers under 47,000 salaried because its a benefit for the workers. They are doing so because its a way to squeeze unpaid productivity from them.

And what are the consequences:

"gee.. then business owners will have to close up shop".

CRAP.

"gee well workers won't have flexibility". No.. they can still have flexibility. You can still take off two hours on Monday to see your kids play at school.. and work two extra hours on Tuesday. AS I understand it.. the overtime applies to over 40 hours per week.

"gee well businesses won't authorize overtime".. Good.. because people aren;t working for no reason.. and if there is extra work and they don't want to pay overtime, then they will just have to HIRE MORE PEOPLE.

and the standard "gee then businesses won't hire people they will automate". If it was beneficial for a company to automate.. they would do it already.
 
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