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Military tightens controls on gay discharges

tacomancer

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- Military tightens controls on gay discharges | Reuters

Defense Secretary Robert Gates issued a memo on Thursday scaling back the authority to kick out troops under "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," which allows gay men and lesbians to serve in secret but discharges them if their sexual orientation is revealed.


Now, only the heads of the Army, Navy and Air Force, in coordination with two other officials, will be allowed to approve such discharges, as opposed to the hundreds of officers who could previously enforce the ban.

In essence, now only the very top officials in the military can make a ruling over whether to discharge someone over DADT rules.

This seems like a sensible approach until the issue is settled once and for all.
 

RosieS

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The problem remains with being discharged because of some tattling bull****. If that were eliminated, then DADT would make some kind of sense. If you conduct yourself in a way that your sexuality is a non-issue then you shouldn't be dismissed.

Someone else tattling on you like a bratty kindergartner concerning your orientation should have no effect on your military service whatsoever.

Regards from Rosie
 

tacomancer

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The problem remains with being discharged because of some tattling bull****. If that were eliminated, then DADT would make some kind of sense. If you conduct yourself in a way that your sexuality is a non-issue then you shouldn't be dismissed.

Someone else tattling on you like a bratty kindergartner concerning your orientation should have no effect on your military service whatsoever.

Regards from Rosie

I agree. But the miliitary is correct in attempting to stabilize the process through more controls until there is a final outcome.
 

apdst

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The problem remains with being discharged because of some tattling bull****. If that were eliminated, then DADT would make some kind of sense. If you conduct yourself in a way that your sexuality is a non-issue then you shouldn't be dismissed.

Someone else tattling on you like a bratty kindergartner concerning your orientation should have no effect on your military service whatsoever.

Regards from Rosie

So, if a soldier sees another soldier commit a crime, that soldier should, "tattle"?
 

Ned Racine

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I wonder what percent of these discharges are from Tattling and what percent are from opportunists with less than a year in uniform who simply want out (???)
 

OscarB63

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The problem remains with being discharged because of some tattling bull****. If that were eliminated, then DADT would make some kind of sense. If you conduct yourself in a way that your sexuality is a non-issue then you shouldn't be dismissed.

If you conduct yourself in a way that your sexuality is a non-issue, then there will be nothing for anyone to "tattle" on you about.
 

tacomancer

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If you conduct yourself in a way that your sexuality is a non-issue, then there will be nothing for anyone to "tattle" on you about.

Until you want a personal life ...
 

roguenuke

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If you conduct yourself in a way that your sexuality is a non-issue, then there will be nothing for anyone to "tattle" on you about.

Anyone's sexuality should be a non-issue, without anyone having to fear discharge from just mentioning who they are dating, whether those fears are warranted or not. If a heterosexual is allowed to discuss boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife with the other people they serve with, then so should a homosexual. And a homosexual should be allowed to commit to the person they love in any way that they wish without being discharged for it, since a heterosexual is allowed to do this.
 

OscarB63

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Until you want a personal life ...

nah, you just keep your personal life...personal. I suspect one of my soldiers is gay. He talks about his best friend, who he shares a house with, as heteros talk about their girlfriends. His best friend is his beneficiary on his serviceman's life insurance. and dozens of other small "clues". He is also one of the finest PLL clerks I have ever seen. Unless he tells somebody that he blew his best friend over the weekend or gets caught french kissing him in public. I could care less. And if some busybody comes to me and tries to "tattle" they better have a spotless record or I will find some petty detail and nail their ass to the wall over it.
 
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Orion

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nah, you just keep your personal life...personal. I suspect one of my soldiers is gay. He talks about his best friend, who he shares a house with, as heteros talk about their girlfriends. His best friend is his beneficiary on his serviceman's life insurance. and dozens of other small "clues". He is also one of the finest PLL clerks I have ever seen. Unless he tells somebody that he blew his best friend over the weekend or gets caught french kissing him in public. I could care less. And if some busybody comes to me and tries to "tattle" they better have a spotless record or I will find some petty detail and nail their ass to the wall over it.

So you believe in the notion of separate but equal.

That will never work and no one should be expected to hide. If you are offended by who someone is committed to, that is YOUR problem and not theirs. They should not be discharged due to someone else's lack of maturity.

Gays have been expressing themselves through secret code long enough. The military is the last bastion of social backwardness and needs to be dragged into the modern world, kicking and screaming if necessary. I feel no sympathy for people who take personal offense to it either. In fact, at this point, I get a kick out of your discomfort.
 
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Redress

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So you believe in the notion of separate but equal.

That will never work and no one should be expected to hide. If you are offended by who someone is committed to, that is YOUR problem and not theirs. They should not be discharged due to someone else's lack of maturity.

That is not equal either. Since strait soldiers could be caught kissing their partner with no repercussions, but the gay soldier cannot, it is not equal.
 

Orion

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That is not equal either. Since strait soldiers could be caught kissing their partner with no repercussions, but the gay soldier cannot, it is not equal.

I know... but I am talking about the most BASIC level of inequality happening: not even being allowed to talk about your loved ones.
 

OscarB63

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So you believe in the notion of separate but equal.

how in the bloody hell did you get that out of what I posted?

That will never work and no one should be expected to hide. If you are offended by who someone is committed to, that is YOUR problem and not theirs. They should not be discharged due to someone else's lack of maturity.

again, where did I say anything even resembling this?

Gays have been expressing themselves through secret code long enough. The military is the last bastion of social backwardness and needs to be dragged into the modern world, kicking and screaming if necessary. I feel no sympathy for people who take personal offense to it either. In fact, at this point, I get a kick out of your discomfort.

what discomfort? I get a kick out of how hopelessly clueless you are as to my attitude. flame on brother.
 

roguenuke

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nah, you just keep your personal life...personal. I suspect one of my soldiers is gay. He talks about his best friend, who he shares a house with, as heteros talk about their girlfriends. His best friend is his beneficiary on his serviceman's life insurance. and dozens of other small "clues". He is also one of the finest PLL clerks I have ever seen. Unless he tells somebody that he blew his best friend over the weekend or gets caught french kissing him in public. I could care less. And if some busybody comes to me and tries to "tattle" they better have a spotless record or I will find some petty detail and nail their ass to the wall over it.

Why should just being "caught french kissing {a guy} in public" be reason for discharge? I can french kiss my husband in public and no one can punish me for it. I could french kiss my husband and any other guy I was dating in public before I got married. Honestly, if my husband was alright with it and I was willing to do it, I could french kiss another guy in public without getting in trouble, since kissing alone is not adultery. And if a heterosexual guy can brag about getting a bj without getting in trouble for it, I see no reason why a homosexual can't brag about giving or receiving one. Sodomy is definitely one of those UCMJ rules that should go away. It is none of the military's business what a couple does in the bedroom, as long as it causes no problems in their job performance. I can almost see the problems of adultery, eventhough, technically adultery isn't actually listed specifically as a rule, but is rather covered under a sub-section of Article 134 and requires "that, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces". This same distinction is not in the sodomy rule. Any act of sodomy is automatically considered wrong.
 

OscarB63

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not saying it's right, just how it currently is. have a little patience and stop the bithcing.
 

apdst

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So you believe in the notion of separate but equal.

That will never work and no one should be expected to hide. If you are offended by who someone is committed to, that is YOUR problem and not theirs. They should not be discharged due to someone else's lack of maturity.

Gays have been expressing themselves through secret code long enough. The military is the last bastion of social backwardness and needs to be dragged into the modern world, kicking and screaming if necessary. I feel no sympathy for people who take personal offense to it either. In fact, at this point, I get a kick out of your discomfort.

You totally missed the crux of his post, huh? :rofl

It's starting to sound like an ego trip--getting the chance to put them mean ole army mens in their place, finally--more than just fighting for the rights of a group of people.

I think alot of the folks crying about this, need to enlist, or just shutup about it.
 

Deuce

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nah, you just keep your personal life...personal. I suspect one of my soldiers is gay. He talks about his best friend, who he shares a house with, as heteros talk about their girlfriends. His best friend is his beneficiary on his serviceman's life insurance. and dozens of other small "clues". He is also one of the finest PLL clerks I have ever seen. Unless he tells somebody that he blew his best friend over the weekend or gets caught french kissing him in public. I could care less. And if some busybody comes to me and tries to "tattle" they better have a spotless record or I will find some petty detail and nail their ass to the wall over it.

This sentence right here is why DADT is wrong.
 

apdst

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This sentence right here is why DADT is wrong.

Technically--in the Army, anyway--a male and a female showing much more affection than just holding hands, is prohibited. Groping, french kissing, etc. are forbidden, even while off duty and off post. it's certainly forbidden, while off duty on post.

When I was in Germany, the division commander issued a policy letter that forbade any sort of PDA by his soldiers, even if off duty, out of uniform and off post.

His justification? One of his soldiers was slobberin' all over another soldier's g/f. The second soldier chopped the first soldier's head off, leaving the body in a dumpster outside the barracks and the head was FedEx'd to the female in question.

His leagal authority? Article 134 of The UCMJ:

"all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty"

If a general, or flag officer; the Secretary of Defense; or the President doesn't want his gay soldiers engaging in PDA, then he is well within his authority to issue an order prohibiting any PDA, at all, by anyone. Failure to obey can result in being court martialed under Article 92 --Failure to Obey Order, or Regulation.

Now that you've been educated, you can stop trippin'.

I think the anti-DADT folks really need to slow their roll. The worst thing you can do, is attempt to tell a division commander how he's going to run his unit. He will prove you wrong.
 
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