Mike Brown commits perjury while testifying before congress

[ALiberalModerate]

And that's the procedure, is this a problem?



Sorry, that's not true, more on this below.



No doubt Mr. Brown was underqualified for his job, but let's not assign him the label of liar on issues which Blanco is not telling the truth.

At 5:00 A.M. Saturday, August 27, St. Charles Parish and Plaquemines Parish orders mandatory evacuations. Blanco's disaster declaration states it is to support the evacuations, but she still had not ordered one.

At 5:00 P.M. Saturday, August 27, at a joint news conference Blanco and Nagin called for a voluntary evacuation. Blanco had not ordered one here either.

That same evening Nagin's legal staff is looking into whether he can order a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans. Still nothing from Blanco.

At 9:30 A.M. Sunday, Aug. 28 Nagin and Blanco hold a joint press conference to announce the first-ever mandatory evacuation of New Orleans.

Such falsehoods and misleading statements, made to the public, are shocking. It clearly demonstrates the appalling degree to which Blanco is either out of touch with the truth or reality.

The above facts are from mainstrean news articles, all verified in an article of the "much acclaimed" Salon.com

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/09/15/katrina_timeline/index.html

That is not where he perjured himself though, read the original post.

Moreover, my point about Blanco requesting a Federal Disaster Declaration before the Hurricane is that some of the right wingers seem to try to sell it like Bush declared a disaster and then had to beg the Gov of LA to do the same.

 

[C.J.]

That is not where he perjured himself though, read the original post.

I was responding to your Blanco quote, and said she was not telling the truth, you know, the part which stated "Mike Brown also lied under oath when he said that the Governor of Louisiana did not order an evacuation" I assumed you meant this was "perjury" also.

I did read the original post, and I have a reasonable memory so no need to read it again. He may well have lied, but more likely he would at least be intelligent enough to not lie about something so easy to prove or disprove. I believe it is more likely he was simply in over his head, and is ignorant of details which he shouldn't be. BTW, lying to Congress technically would not be perjury, it would be "Lying To Congress."

Moreover, my point about Blanco requesting a Federal Disaster Declaration before the Hurricane is that some of the right wingers seem to try to sell it like Bush declared a disaster and then had to beg the Gov of LA to do the same.

Whoever tries to sell that would be in error.

 

[Fantasea]

The municipal government is the first responder.

The state government is the second responder.

The federal government is the third responder.

Is anyone aware that the total number of employees in FEMA is less than 2,500? Does anyone know the actual responsibility of FEMA in a time of crisis?

What if Mayor Ray Nagin insisted that everyone evacuate before the storm hit? With all of those busses at his disposal, he could have gotten everyone out. Two days later, when the levee was breached, was when most of the human toll was taken.

What if Governor Kathleen Blanco had activated the National Guard when the White House first advised her to do so, instead of several days later?

Does anyone understand Kathleen Blanco is the governor of the sovereign state of Louisiana which is one of these 50 United States and that the federal government may not encroach upon her authority?

None of her requests were refused. The problem is that she all but abdicated her responsibility, doing virtually nothing until the Katrina was waltzing through the streets of New Orleans.

At that point, she began to yell and shake her fist at Washington. Ray Nagin was delighted to be able to join with her in an effort to deflect blame from himself.

So, Michael Brown was selected to fall on his sword and he willingly did so. However, after he did, congress dragged him in; he spilled his guts, and now, everybody is killing the messenger.

That's the American way, isn't it?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

The municipal government is the first responder.

The state government is the second responder.

The federal government is the third responder.

Is anyone aware that the total number of employees in FEMA is less than 2,500? Does anyone know the actual responsibility of FEMA in a time of crisis?

What if Mayor Ray Nagin insisted that everyone evacuate before the storm hit? With all of those busses at his disposal, he could have gotten everyone out. Two days later, when the levee was breached, was when most of the human toll was taken.

What if Governor Kathleen Blanco had activated the National Guard when the White House first advised her to do so, instead of several days later?

Does anyone understand Kathleen Blanco is the governor of the sovereign state of Louisiana which is one of these 50 United States and that the federal government may not encroach upon her authority?

None of her requests were refused. The problem is that she all but abdicated her responsibility, doing virtually nothing until the Katrina was waltzing through the streets of New Orleans.

At that point, she began to yell and shake her fist at Washington. Ray Nagin was delighted to be able to join with her in an effort to deflect blame from himself.

So, Michael Brown was selected to fall on his sword and he willingly did so. However, after he did, congress dragged him in; he spilled his guts, and now, everybody is killing the messenger.

That's the American way, isn't it?

No, generally, its the American way for the party of personal responsibility not to take responsibility for anything. However, this time it seems to be different, congressional Republicans can easily see through the spin and see that the guy screwed up, was late fulfilling most of the requests made by state and local officials before the hurricane even hit, and was clueless afterwards. I have said it before and I will say it again, the dittoheads would blame Davy Crockett not holding the Alamo if it made their guy look better. The state and local officials screwed up, but they were overwhelmed and requests they made before the hurricane for additional national guard troops were not even approved by the Whitehouse until Thursday night after the Hurricane.

 

[kmhowe72]

I couldn't believe it eirher. what right does he have perjuring himself. And who is going to call him on it.

 

[C.J.]

No, generally, its the American way for the party of personal responsibility not to take responsibility for anything. However, this time it seems to be different, congressional Republicans can easily see through the spin and see that the guy screwed up, was late fulfilling most of the requests made by state and local officials before the hurricane even hit, and was clueless afterwards. I have said it before and I will say it again, the dittoheads would blame Davy Crockett not holding the Alamo if it made their guy look better.

I believe you hit the nail on the head with the word "clueless." State and local officials were overwhelmed for the same reasons Brown and FEMA were overwhelmed. First the attitude that a natural disaster of this magnitude will happen one day, but not on my watch, and second Brown was an inexperienced, incompetent boob, placed in a job of responsibility which he wasn't remotely prepared for, as iwas Blanco and Nagin.

The state and local officials screwed up, but they were overwhelmed and requests they made before the hurricane for additional national guard troops were not even approved by the Whitehouse until Thursday night after the Hurricane.

The Whitehouse doesn't approve National Guard troops, a state governor (Blanco) is CIC of their states National Guard, and has all authority to activate them, while the President has no authority to do so without act of Congress, or the Governors ok. In this case, the one thing Blanco did correctly, was to not succumb to federal pressure to federalize her National Guard. A few things she did incorrectly was to activate units which included some in the path of the storm (and they were incapacitated early on), and to not activate enough of them. Blanco could have also activated the mutual aid agreements with other states somewhat earlier, but that's another whack job for another time.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I believe you hit the nail on the head with the word "clueless." State and local officials were overwhelmed for the same reasons Brown and FEMA were overwhelmed. First the attitude that a natural disaster of this magnitude will happen one day, but not on my watch, and second Brown was an inexperienced, incompetent boob, placed in a job of responsibility which he wasn't remotely prepared for, as iwas Blanco and Nagin.



The Whitehouse doesn't approve National Guard troops, a state governor (Blanco) is CIC of their states National Guard, and has all authority to activate them, while the President has no authority to do so without act of Congress, or the Governors ok. In this case, the one thing Blanco did correctly, was to not succumb to federal pressure to federalize her National Guard. A few things she did incorrectly was to activate units which included some in the path of the storm (and they were incapacitated early on), and to not activate enough of them. Blanco could have also activated the mutual aid agreements with other states somewhat earlier, but that's another whack job for another time.

I think you missunderstood me. Blanco submitted a request to the Whitehouse for additional guard units from other states on Sunday before the Hurricane. Because those units were from other states, and not under Blanco's authority, the Whitehouse had to approve the request. The request was not approved until late Thursday Night, after the hurricane.

 

[MSgt]

I think you missunderstood me. Blanco submitted a request to the Whitehouse for additional guard units from other states on Sunday before the Hurricane. Because those units were from other states, and not under Blanco's authority, the Whitehouse had to approve the request. The request was not approved until late Thursday Night, after the hurricane.

Shouldn't that be between the state governors and not the Federal Government?

 

[C.J.]

Shouldn't that be between the state governors and not the Federal Government?

That is correct, as the agreements are between states. Congress through a Joint resolution consented to the agreement in 1996, which specifically states that the states will coordinate.

Joint Resolution, Public Law 104-321 http://lcweb2.loc.gov/law/usa/us040321.pdf#search='louisiana%20National%20Guard%20Mutual%20Assistance%20Compact'

 

[MSgt]

That is correct, as the agreements are between states. Congress through a Joint resolution consented to the agreement in 1996, which specifically states that the states will coordinate.

Joint Resolution, Public Law 104-321 http://lcweb2.loc.gov/law/usa/us040321.pdf#search='louisiana%20National%20Guard%20Mutual%20Assistance%20Compact'

I thought as much.

 

[Stinger]

Snopes refutes a lot of the missinformation coming out of the right. You can read it here:

I cited you local news accounts which confirm exactly what I stated.

http://www.snopes.com/katrina/politics/blanco.asp

[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Bookman Old Style,Arial]Claim: Louisiana governor Kathleen Blanco refused President Bush's pleas to declare an emergency before Hurricane Katrina struck. [/FONT]

I've have never made such a claim, what she did refuse was federalizing the rescue and recovery. She also had to be urge to evacuate.

Among other points in the article contrary to much of the propaganda being spewed on the right:

1. Blanco asked President Bush to make a National Disaster Declaration.

I don't know what that is contrary to because I haven't said anything of the sort. What I have said and what is very apparent, she didn't act upon that declaration as she should have once it was issued.

2. Blanco declared a state of emergency on the Friday before the Hurricane.

OK, no one says otherwise. But when did she declare a mandatory evacuation?

3. Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center contacted Mississippi and Louisiana officials Saturday Night before the Hurricane to recommend an evacuation, and not on Friday before the Hurricane.

Everything I read said exactly the same and he was worried because the mandatory evacuations and emergency plans did not seem to be progressing.

Also, if you actually look at the State of Louisiana's website, you will notice that the Governor Blanco issued evacuation orders for all of the Southeastern Parishes on Saturday before the Hurricane.

Please cite the specific public announcement of the mandatory evacuation order.

Through subsequent disaster meetings between state, local, and federal officials (they had them every 3 hours in the days leading up to the Hurricane and afterwards), it was decided that the Mayor should issue one for New Orleans in the event that New Orleans residents had not headed the State order.

And cite the specific public announcement you are speaking of and the date and time of it.

 

[ludahai]

I couldn't believe it eirher. what right does he have perjuring himself. And who is going to call him on it.

Liberals do NOT have the high road on tis after defending a President who committed perjury in front of a JUDGE!

 

[Stinger]

You are right. However, I don't think that Americans want their elected officials investigating the sexual relationships of other elected officials.

What if they, a government official, are being sued for sexually harassing a subordinate employee, does the plantiff have a right to investigate whether or not the superior government official engages in sexual activity with other subordinate workers and rewards them for aquiesing? Does the plaintiff have a right to investigate whether or not the superior actually harasses other employees?

The answer is yes to all the above, and if the official, while under oath, lies for the purpose of obstructing justice then that is a federal crime, perjury. And yes it is threatening to us all if, simply because of their position, we allow government officials to break the law with impunity.

 

[Stinger]

Moreover, my point about Blanco requesting a Federal Disaster Declaration before the Hurricane is that some of the right wingers seem to try to sell it like Bush declared a disaster and then had to beg the Gov of LA to do the same.

Who? You have not cited anyone who has made that claim, at least anyone of any bearing. I think you are confusing the evacutaion declaration with the emergency declaration, they are two seperate things.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Shouldn't that be between the state governors and not the Federal Government?

After the levees broke, governors from around the country pledged their National Guard troops for the relief mission, yet their efforts were occasionally ensnared in bureaucracy.

On Aug. 29, when Katrina hit, Richardson, the New Mexico governor, telephoned Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco, and asked if there was anything his state could provide.

"She said, 'We need truck drivers and National Guard,' " Richardson recalled. He told her, "I'll get moving on it."

Richardson said he immediately authorized his Guard commander to send 200 troops to Louisiana. Then "red tape and paperwork" intervened, Richardson said. Instead of hours, it took four days.

"My National Guard commander … tried to get approval from the Guard bureau in Washington, and it wasn't until Thursday night that he got it," he said. "They kept saying they needed a definition of the mission in their orders. I said how about, 'Helping people.' I kept bumping into my National Guard commander and he kept saying, 'No, they haven't left yet.' "

http://www.latimes.com/news/printed...7726.story?page=5&coll=la-headlines-frontpage

 

[Fantasea]

http://www.latimes.com/news/printed...7726.story?page=5&coll=la-headlines-frontpage

You quoted the first part of the news story, but not the last part which is more revealing. Why is that?

Here it is.

"As the situation worsened and local officials appeared incapable of organizing an effective response, senior officials gathered at the White House on Wednesday night, Aug. 31, to discuss the possibility of "federalizing" the relief effort, which would have given the Pentagon command over the National Guard troops in the affected states.

Atty. Gen. Alberto R. Gonzales suggested that Bush invoke the 1878 Insurrection Act, which gives the president the authority to use the military to maintain law and order in national emergencies, Pentagon sources said.

At that meeting and later sessions, Rumsfeld expressed misgivings about such a draconian measure, and argued that federalizing the National Guard would not speed up the flow of troops into the area.

Pentagon officials said they were confident that by week's end, approximately 40,000 National Guard troops from dozens of states would be in the disaster region.

"There was already a significant flow of Guard troops. Changing the nature of the operation wasn't going to get people there any faster," said Pentagon spokesman Lawrence DiRita.

There were political hurdles as well. Both governors Blanco of Louisiana, a Democrat, and Gov. Haley Barbour or Mississippi, a Republican, opposed federalizing the Guard. Not since the civil rights era had a president invoked the Insurrection Act over the objections of a sitting governor.

By Friday, senior U.S. officials agreed it could be perceived as a federal invasion of two U.S. states. But it was getting late.

"It was three or four days past D-Day. The worst had already happened. People who were going to die were dead," said William Banks, a national security expert at Syracuse law school."

The problem is simple to understand; but only if one wishes to understand it. Many, it would seem, do not wish to understand it.

1. People who remained in New Orleans died.

2. While there was plenty of time to do so, neither Governor Blanco nor Mayor Nagin forced them to evacuate.

3. Why did people remain in New Orleans? The mayor gave them the choice.

4. Once Katrina struck, no one and nothing could prevent what followed.

5. Now, the socialist-lib-dem Monday morning quarterbacks are desperately seeking to shift blame to the Bush Administration.

It's simply politics, as usual.

 

[C.J.]

[After the levees broke, governors from around the country pledged their National Guard troops for the relief mission, yet their efforts were occasionally ensnared in bureaucracy.

Then it was their own bureaucracy or lack of understanding of it which caused problems. For instance, when the health departments of both MS and LA refused to allow out of state doctors to provide emergency medical assistance, they obviously did not know of the EMAC clause which allowed/required them to respect the out of state licenses of those professionals.

Richardson said he immediately authorized his Guard commander to send 200 troops to Louisiana. Then "red tape and paperwork" intervened, Richardson said. Instead of hours, it took four days.

Richardson obviously is not familiar with the Mutual Assistance Compact of which his state is a party. The agreement allows for immediate action on verbal requests, with the paperwork to be completed within 30 days. It states that each state is responsible for formulating the plans and then carrying them out.

"My National Guard commander … tried to get approval from the Guard bureau in Washington, and it wasn't until Thursday night that he got it," he said. "They kept saying they needed a definition of the mission in their orders. I said how about, 'Helping people.' I kept bumping into my National Guard commander and he kept saying, 'No, they haven't left yet.' "

The National Guard Bureau is not even mentioned in the compact and is not even in the loop. They would however eventually be brought in to the loop. The Guard is a tool of a state, at the command of a governor, and governors needs no permission to utilize them, not within their state and not under EMAC. EMAC is not a federal agency, and is not part of the federal government. Administrative support for the compact is through the National Emergency Management Council (an affiliate of the Council of State Governments), which is not part of the federal government.

When Barbour and Blanco declared emergencies, state EMAC officials sent requests, and a state EMAC officer filtered responses and decided which state would fulfill which requests.

 

[Canuck]

blame him blame her blame them
please dont blame me

he was canned for a lousy job done but was it his fault
HOMELAND SECURity gutted FEEMA
and the feds didnt fix the levees
because N O was too poor to improve the levees and the feds didnt want to pay
now everyone will pay big time
that is everyone but the ELITE they never pay
and REPS and DEMS at each others throats while the enemy the ELITE pull the levers of power
it is enough to make anyone stop voting
pretty soon the only voters will be mexicans