Migrant caravan: Detained Guatemalan boy dies at Mexico-US border

[trouble13]

Would they be alive if the Border patrol was being better equipped and supported by this administration to handle such emergencies because it actually cared about their welfare is the question we should be asking.

That's actually more of a question for Congress since they control the funding.

My point is that the gov isnt responsible for killing any of these illegals. The gov did not inflict harm on them. They do what they can with the resources they have.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Atomic Kid]

Little Girl
Sorry thought I read somewhere, it was liver failure due to dehydration
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-sepsis-shock-hospital-officials-said-n948666

Sepsis Shock? Liver failure? While I agree That the CHILD may have DIED in the Care Custody and Control of the BP Agents. WAS it the BP agents FAULT.. MORE SO from the OG post... Trumps fault. thats just dishonest and intended to defame no? HOW about this, If the Child NEVER made the Long Journey would she have probably died from Sepsis Shock?


Trump is playing a game? THAT IS THE LAW to go to the legal port of Entry and Claim asylum, do you not see the game these migrants are playing? Try to sneak across the border, IF you get caught claim asylum they cant deport you immediately. IF you wanted to claim asylum WHY NOT do it at a port of entry? They are playing the game and finding loopholes in our system. Let me say this WHAT if TODAY we just canned the WHOLE Asylum thing period. Canned it... Do you think the huge rush of migrants decrease dramatically. I can almost guarantee it... as they know they HAVE NO choices now...

As for aid and all that junk WHO THE HELL IS PAYING FOR THIS, We got so much homeless and AMERICANS that lack proper food, shelter and medical care, YET we have to drop everything for those that are NOT even Americans? seriously? I have dollar, I can give it to a homeless on my street or I can donate it to the illegals....Im walking to my homeless guy right now......

Smarter Approach

YESSSSSSSSS that is why we need to redo our Immigration laws as well as accept that we CANNOT save everyone.

With that Venezuela is one of nations on the 7 country bans, due to lack of government and viable identification system. Those countries are riffed with issues..... pour MORE money into countries that squander it? or Secure our selves first figure stuff out here and then worry about others?


final point...At this point when resources are FINATE we have to accpet the fact we can defer and let our future deal with it or we can face the HARSH realities now for a BETTER future.

Fix our CRAP, becuase OUR CRAP STICKS just as much as other countries, WHAT gives us the right to dictate what others do when we cannot take care of our OWN citizens. PERIOD.. Thats my GREATER concerns.

We need to look into the situation with the Border Patrol. The law is clear that they are responsible for the safety and wellbeing of every person they take into their custody. There is no reason why this nation cannot mount the kind of humanitarian aid and support needed at the border. Is the Border Patrol solely responsible? I don't know I doubt it but we will have to investigate to know the answer. Could well be that a lack of proper logistical and personnel support not being rendered to it by this administration may have led to an inevitable breakdown and failure in this aspect of their mission.


That they do clearly speaks to the need to look at what is happening in our hemisphere. Just like no man is an island, nowadays nor is any nation. These problems will only continue to ripple out touching everyone and these ripples will only grow larger. So in actuality investing in looking for solutions to these hemispherical problems is as much an investment in ourselves as it would be for our neighbors. If we can afford 25 billion to build a wall that does essentially nothing we can certainly afford to try to improve things in our own hemisphere. In fact we probably can't afford not to. Now is not the time to withdraw inwards. Yes we have some crap that stinks. Much more of it lately. But we have always been the beacon of hope for the rest of the world. Unlike Trump I believe the America should be a force for good. An advocate for democracy and human rights and a protector of the liberal democratic world order and free trade system we helped to create and that was payed for in blood in WWII that has kept the world free of a major war for over 7 decades now. No we can't save everybody but we can still do a lot of good for a lot of people.

And if you're so worried about welfare of poorer Americans then perhaps you should have that conversation with the party you so staunchly defend. The party that wants to diminish the safety net these people rely upon. Ask them why they want cut the medicaid, their food stamps, their social security, take away their health insurance and replacing with nothing, give out handouts to the rich by giving them huge tax breaks that do little to nothing to help those less fortunate because they are payed for upon the backs of the poor.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Show me where " escaping for a better life" is grounds for asylum...

Sent from my SM-T587P using Tapatalk

Show me where it also couldn't be? Surely not every case. But at least you agree that it's not criminal. That's progress I guess.

 

[Exactice]

.....

Hey Atomic,

Let me put it out straight. Enforcing the Law 100% of the time is considered, Racist, Bigoted, Xenophobe?

IS IT NOT THE law to be detained at the border if you do NOT have proper travel documents/visa YES OR NO?

Is it NOT THE LAW, NOT TO ROB a Bank, Is there a 100% enforcement to arrest a bank robber, even if they are with their children. DO NOT Change that FACTS and add in "Incendiary Terms" just to fit your narrative. THE LAW is the LAW PERIOD. The law says you do NOT enter our country without PROPER Identification that is the law.

THE REAL issue is that we have been SO lax and pick and chose more so USED emotions that if an adult that CHOSE to break our laws was with children we were more lenient. THIS then perpetuated the INFLUX of MORE Migrants thinking they could GET AWAY with it. DONT get mad when you GET caught for BREAKING LAWS nor blame it on someone else, OWN the decision 100% enforcement OF THE LAW is how the LAW works whats the point if you only enforce it 70% of the time.

What about shoplifting, its only enforce 60% of the time... common Atomic, we were having such a good debate, dont throw in false narratives like xenophobe bigot racist, when it is NOT applicable. To the enforcement.

Family separation per your QUOTE was to deter illegal immigration. So I will accept that it may be used as a tool. Thanks for the info, with that, What say you then. WHAT is your FIX, or proposal for the influx of migrants. that CHOSE to break our laws? 80% now are denied Asylum so the 20% with credible fears are approved meaning 80% are wasting our time, energy resources with complete disregard of our laws. PERIOD.


I may have NOT spent enough time in the military, so yes I do not know what Posse concomitants act is, I am research it and its funny, IT PLAYS NO relevance to our discussion, the Deployed troops as I THINK I had a direct discussion with you already was these were NON COMBAT arms. these were support personal, Media, Comms, Engineers, Medical and legal. THERE WAS NEVER an intent to engage with the migrants through LEO duties. They were there to provide support by housing, barrier erection and processing of legal means. NO apprehension unless ROEs specified. ITs funny Actually by you POINTING out Posse Concomitants edifies the FACT that they WERE NEVER there to arrest migrants? So what is your point. you actually proved mine which I have posted no less than 5 times in mutiple threads. The MILITARY DEPLOYMENT was in support of the BP Agents through logistics NOT criminal enforcement.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...-list-of-military-units-headed-to-the-border/

 

[Exactice]

.....

I will agree that WE should LOOK into the situation was there a dereliction of duty by an Agent. an untimely and possibly preventable DEATH is INEXCUSABLE regardless if they are legal or not. I 100% agree. BUT to PUT the blame on policies of immigration, the POTUS or even the BP as a whole without context is irresponsible as well.

Next now I am going to do something you might not like but again context. Americans have been responsible for many DIRECT untimely deaths of Children. Specifically Drone strikes on non citizens and even recently during the Obama Era an AMERICAN citizen and their chidren without the same regards. DO we hold these people in the SAME CONTEMPT as we are doing now?

THIS family chose to take the journey to illegal come to America and funny... I do NOT see anything ELSE about the family actually being legal to remain here. SO if the Child lived and they were processed they likely would have been deported anyway so the travel was in vain. The Risk was NOT worth the reward.

As for Support We ALL know that the BP Agents lack the support..... its funny the "hypocrisy" left Demands ICE and BP agents to be disbanded. Yet they continue their jobs and then get criticized for actually doing it. Damned if they do Damned if they dont. Much like any LEO they are the bastard step child.


Thanks for discussing a potential policy. Its funny most times on DP is spent defending actions rather than coming up with BETTER ones so I truly appreciate discussing this portion more. rather than and incendiary terms or PAST actions I would rather move forward!

With that, I 100% agree we should focus on fixing problems rather then band-aiding them. What do I mean.

1) Close the border and ALL immigration for X amount of time to get things straight. WE have an issue with immigration.

1a) Our biggest issue is that we have NO continuity with immigration to begin with, meaning NO rhyme or reason. 1776 when the constitution was signed, we had and abundance of land, wealth and development. 300 years forward we are at 330 Million US citizens a failing middle class and LIMITED resources. WE have to evolve.

1b) closing our borders is NOT an attempt to be bigot or racist, but to evaluate WHAT our existing AMERICAN citizens can sustain. America should be AMERICA first, Citizens that PAY taxes SHOULD feel their tax dollars are In support of THEIR public services, schools, firemen, police, health care etc.

1c) Our current immigration laws, incentives the decision of RISK vs REWARD, there SHOULD NOT BE any REWARD for committing a crime, THERE NEVER SHOULD BE. There should be rewards for FOLLOWING LAWs. currently with the abuse of the asylum claim as we can see by data, 70% specifically are denied. That means 70% of all people coming to America that claim are denied because they never qualified in the first place. The problem is people come here illegally through or not through ports of entry. Then claim asylum just because they CAN... The Risk vs Reward..... do you not see how that perpetuates more Risk?

1d) We as a nation must make a legitimate choice. Secure our borders 100% and validate all that come in. Or continue the path of ruin. Here is an example. Those that choose to do harm have an UNLIMITED Amount of chances but a TSA agent ONLY has one chance...... This is no different from the BP agents. The migrants can sneak and cross and run as much as they want.... the reward is getting into America. But it takes just 1 mistake by a BP agent and someone may lose their life. Where does the CONTINUITY end?

 

[Exactice]

Part 2



2) Beacon of hope.. Unfortunately I think that beacon has strayed much like any powerful government they have become riddled with greed as well as the lust for power. While we view Trump through different optics. Our corp principles seem to differ as well. I for one realize my crap stinks and before I can clean anyone else nor criticize anyone I need to make sure I clean up myself. For me being a beacon of hope first starts by acting at a higher standard. Do you think at the 1st world level we are acting any better than some 3rd world countries. THIS is to INCLUDE Trumps, diarrhea mouth.


3) Poorer Americans. Actually great point. I support the party I defend because I was given free will to make choices. It should NOT be anyone else's responsibility to CLEAN UP my mess for Terrible uninformed or selfish decisions.

3a) With that there SHOULD be basic social safety nets for unforeseen uncontrolled events. insurance based /risk based assessments. BUT think of it this. YEARS ago..."Pioneer days" they didn't have all these social services we have now. We used to be so independent, self serving and more self accountable. WHILE I agree there are 2 types of people generic people, Aggressive go getters and passive repetitious, When the social and safety nets OUT WEIGHT the cost benefits and create a greater BURDEN on the collective. Do we continue to "write bad checks" or do we finally say thats enough and take 1 step back to go 2 steps forward.


Much of trumps actions ARE 1 step back..... BUT I am optimistic its for 2 steps forward of course if ITS NOT, when he is gone in 2020 But hell we cant even see half of it because its denied before it reaches the senate floor, Sad....



I will say this if you didnt get it already..... I am a self serving, self motivating person. I try my best NOT to abuse systems and obey the law as much as I can. SURE I look in the mirror and realize I speed once in a while, But I try to be a contributing citizen to society as a whole. I am but one person. Until EACH person can look peacefully in the mirror and say the same thing.... I doubt we will ever solve all the problems in our nation and more so the world.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Hey maybe then people will realize 25 billion for a wall is a bargain.

Not a chance. Our government knew the levees around New Orleans were inadequate for more than 50 years. Each congress kicked the can down the road until Katrina.


Then it was Bush's fault the levee's failed and Bush's fault the mayor of New Orleans left 100's of thousands to die in the wake of a cat 5 hurricane. Then it was Bush's fault he turned over FEMA to the joke Louisiana had for a Governor. He should have declared Marshall law and showed those incompetent fools how to use resources. Instead that clown for a mayor was trapped in New Orleans with the people he did not evacuate and left to die. Then he was screaming for someone to do something after he fumbled the ball. But nothing was done because the inept Governor had know idea how to use the same FEMA resources that worked so well on other disasters where competent leaders took charge.


Oh but we are building the levees now after the flood. That is the way our worthless government handles all infrastructure problems. They kick the can down the road and see who gets caught when the disaster happens. Same with the wall. After some nuke is brought into our country and detonated by a terrorist the wall will be built and security of our border will cease to be a joke.

 

[SLC]

Not a chance. Our government knew the levees around New Orleans were inadequate for more than 50 years. Each congress kicked the can down the road until Katrina.


Then it was Bush's fault the levee's failed and Bush's fault the mayor of New Orleans left 100's of thousands to die in the wake of a cat 5 hurricane. Then it was Bush's fault he turned over FEMA to the joke Louisiana had for a Governor. He should have declared Marshall law and showed those incompetent fools how to use resources. Instead that clown for a mayor was trapped in New Orleans with the people he did not evacuate and left to die. Then he was screaming for someone to do something after he fumbled the ball. But nothing was done because the inept Governor had know idea how to use the same FEMA resources that worked so well on other disasters where competent leaders took charge.


Oh but we are building the levees now after the flood. That is the way our worthless government handles all infrastructure problems. They kick the can down the road and see who gets caught when the disaster happens. Same with the wall. After some nuke is brought into our country and detonated by a terrorist the wall will be built and security of our border will cease to be a joke.

This is what ticked me off about the mayor of New Orleans. Think about how many people they could have transported out of harms way and saved the buses too.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=lTm87452&id=616348F8FDEB46FCA0F78EE346D3362E9F5F9590&thid=OIP.lTm87452Uws5-hWl6ITEAgHaEm&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fww2.hdnux.com%2fphotos%2f40%2f33%2f42%2f8501405%2f3%2f920x1240.jpg&exph=571&expw=920&q=new+orleans+flooded+school+buses&simid=608000319165565773&selectedIndex=6&ajaxhist=0

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

This is what ticked me off about the mayor of New Orleans. Think about how many people they could have transported out of harms way and saved the buses too.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=lTm87452&id=616348F8FDEB46FCA0F78EE346D3362E9F5F9590&thid=OIP.lTm87452Uws5-hWl6ITEAgHaEm&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fww2.hdnux.com%2fphotos%2f40%2f33%2f42%2f8501405%2f3%2f920x1240.jpg&exph=571&expw=920&q=new+orleans+flooded+school+buses&simid=608000319165565773&selectedIndex=6&ajaxhist=0

The sad part is the only one that got blamed was the person who actually did their job. It was unbelievable the way they blamed Bush for the incompetence of everyone else involved. Bush declared a state of emergency and turned FEMA over to the local authorities in plenty of time.

 

[trixare4kids]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46682354

An eight-year-old boy from Guatemala has died in US government custody, immigration authorities say.

It is the second time this month an immigrant child has died while being detained after crossing the US-Mexico border.
=========================================================
If Trump keeps this up (along with the now indefinite shutdown), he can count on not being reelected.

Nothing like a good crisis to blame Trump but I've come to expect nothing less from his haters.

Guatemalan boy who died in US custody had the flu, medical examiner says

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Nothing like a good crisis to blame Trump but I've come to expect nothing less from his haters.

Guatemalan boy who died in US custody had the flu, medical examiner says

Don't worry about it. If this had happened when Mr. Obama was the President then HIS "haters" would have been making the same noises and his supporters would have been putting out the same defences.

The correct (from a humanitarian point of view) response is

1. Things like this should never happen.
2. A thing like this DID happen.
3. To hell with who the President is, let's do everything we can do to ensure that it doesn't happen again.
4. If it does happen again, then let's take a close look at what we did to lower the chance of it happening again and see what we can do better.

"Finger pointing" very seldom solves anything. (But it IS a whole lot more fun than admitting that the people that the finger pointer supports aren't perfect.)

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

The Wall is a joke...A Monument to trump's ego and appeasement to all the bigots....

The bigots are all the people who have walls, fences, or other barriers in and around their homes and are criticizing Trump.

 

[Acadia]

I will agree that WE should LOOK into the situation was there a dereliction of duty by an Agent. an untimely and possibly preventable DEATH is INEXCUSABLE regardless if they are legal or not. I 100% agree. BUT to PUT the blame on policies of immigration, the POTUS or even the BP as a whole without context is irresponsible as well.

Next now I am going to do something you might not like but again context. Americans have been responsible for many DIRECT untimely deaths of Children. Specifically Drone strikes on non citizens and even recently during the Obama Era an AMERICAN citizen and their chidren without the same regards. DO we hold these people in the SAME CONTEMPT as we are doing now?

THIS family chose to take the journey to illegal come to America and funny... I do NOT see anything ELSE about the family actually being legal to remain here. SO if the Child lived and they were processed they likely would have been deported anyway so the travel was in vain. The Risk was NOT worth the reward.

As for Support We ALL know that the BP Agents lack the support..... its funny the "hypocrisy" left Demands ICE and BP agents to be disbanded. Yet they continue their jobs and then get criticized for actually doing it. Damned if they do Damned if they dont. Much like any LEO they are the bastard step child.


Thanks for discussing a potential policy. Its funny most times on DP is spent defending actions rather than coming up with BETTER ones so I truly appreciate discussing this portion more. rather than and incendiary terms or PAST actions I would rather move forward!

With that, I 100% agree we should focus on fixing problems rather then band-aiding them. What do I mean.

1) Close the border and ALL immigration for X amount of time to get things straight. WE have an issue with immigration.

1a) Our biggest issue is that we have NO continuity with immigration to begin with, meaning NO rhyme or reason. 1776 when the constitution was signed, we had and abundance of land, wealth and development. 300 years forward we are at 330 Million US citizens a failing middle class and LIMITED resources. WE have to evolve.

1b) closing our borders is NOT an attempt to be bigot or racist, but to evaluate WHAT our existing AMERICAN citizens can sustain. America should be AMERICA first, Citizens that PAY taxes SHOULD feel their tax dollars are In support of THEIR public services, schools, firemen, police, health care etc.

1c) Our current immigration laws, incentives the decision of RISK vs REWARD, there SHOULD NOT BE any REWARD for committing a crime, THERE NEVER SHOULD BE. There should be rewards for FOLLOWING LAWs. currently with the abuse of the asylum claim as we can see by data, 70% specifically are denied. That means 70% of all people coming to America that claim are denied because they never qualified in the first place. The problem is people come here illegally through or not through ports of entry. Then claim asylum just because they CAN... The Risk vs Reward..... do you not see how that perpetuates more Risk?

1d) We as a nation must make a legitimate choice. Secure our borders 100% and validate all that come in. Or continue the path of ruin. Here is an example. Those that choose to do harm have an UNLIMITED Amount of chances but a TSA agent ONLY has one chance...... This is no different from the BP agents. The migrants can sneak and cross and run as much as they want.... the reward is getting into America. But it takes just 1 mistake by a BP agent and someone may lose their life. Where does the CONTINUITY end?

Great post:applaud
The other side of the coin is the risk/reward the Democrats are taking with American lives. Problem is, they will never suffer the consequences the likes of Officer Singh, Kate Steinle or Milly tibbets. Walls for me, but not for thee.

 

[trixare4kids]

The bigots are all the people who have walls, fences, or other barriers in and around their homes and are criticizing Trump.

So true...