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Michigan cop on Black man's back, fatally shot him

Tangmo said:
It's the continuation of the National Police Crime Wave against unarmed black males.
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That's the one that exists only in your imagination.
 
Grizzly Adams said:
That's the one that exists only in your imagination.
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Lotsa real dead bodies and unaccountable cops testify to the fact of a long term continuing National Police Crime Wave against unarmed black males.

Which means de Nile isn't only a river in Egypt.

As you paddle upstream.

While the rule of law does not apply -- or applies only rarely -- against the police use of deadly force against unarmed black Americans. It is instead shoot 'em dead on the spot and don't ask questions at all.
 
Anthony60 said:
Community leaders that are promoting this violence don't care about the community, just politics. It helps them politically, they don't care who dies.
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Pooh. They are NOT promoting violence.
That's simply bs .
 
Grizzly Adams said:
Thankfully, they don't have to make the choice, since I'm not contradicting Axon, just you and your inability to distinguish between Axon's technical terminology and lay language.


No, you didn't. Your inexplicable denial of the most basic concept regarding how uses of force are judged says you have no LE experience at all. The only shield you ever wore came with a healthy coat of Cracker Jack dust.

I imagine a taser instructor would instruct on pain compliance methods while using the taser in the manner indicated by the manual. People who steal tasers from officers have no such training and can't be relied upon to use the taser in the manner in which it is intended. Any actual LEO would know this.


Based on his ability to defeat the officer's control efforts throughout the entire encounter, it is not unrealistic to think he could turn just a little and get a good angle. (There's that "totality of circumstances" thing again...)


It's very possible he couldn't effectively back away. Can you hear him after the shooting? The guy is gassed. He's got nothing left in the tank. I miscalculated the length of the encounter earlier. It wasn't almost a minute and a half. It was more than a minute longer. Two minutes and 28 seconds from the first physical contact to the shot. A good amount of that time was spent fighting on the ground. I'd have no problem believing he didn't think he could create distance just based on that. I think he'd have been justified in deadly force anyway, but that's just more TOTALITY OF CIRCUMSTANCES to consider.


Says the guy who says dumb ****ing shit like "there is no totality of circumstances" in deadly force.

Stop spreading your ignorance.
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Well I got to hand it to you. When you are proven wrong...you just double down making the same debunked arguments.
Dude..you are not even smart enough to understand what I said about the justification for the use of deadly force.

Look..you were proven wrong. Your desperation is amusing but..
I mean now dude your argument is the trained policeman is an incompetent fighter..
While the man on his hands and knees has ninja like abilities to shift his weight off the elbow your own picture showed was planted on the ground..and contort wrist elbow and shoulder..to place the taser that now only has drive stun capability..into the officer who is on his back...which of course would ..according to the manufacturer...not incapacitate but cause pain.. not to mention the manufacture states that merely touching the suspect will be ineffective but states the taser.. should be " aggressively drive the ( taser) into the subject for maximum effect".
But wait..what was your argument..oh yeah..don't believe the manufacturer of the taser..because " lay people " know more.
Lmao..
 
csense said:
I very much doubt that the encounters I had, ever made it into any statistical database from which you draw your conclusions. In fact, I’m certain of it. The same could be said for tens, if not hundreds of thousands of similar encounters over the years.

There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics

There’s a reason why that phrase has been quoted often over the years. Because it’s true.

Christ said that we see through a glass darkly. Though he meant that for profound circumstances, it seems to apply to human nature in general. Some can’t see, while others choose not to.
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So your argument is that science is wrong..hmmm.
Explains a lot.
 
Court Jester said:
I agree. Sometimes police give poor commands, or conflicting commands. Not al cops are cool under stress, and if they see a gun...well, no way are they certain if you are a good guy or a bad guy until the find out for sure.

I always tell people that if a cop of cops (because sometimes the confusion comes when multiple cops are shouting commands), that if you are uncertain, to just freeze. Keep hands up, palms open, be sure not to pull your pants up or reach, and if necessary lay on the ground with legs and arms spread and open palms up. Because if they aren't giving clear commands, and they are stressed/scared, and you are scared; I don't see a cop shooting somebody who is face down on the ground no matter what commands that person isn't following.

Sometimes during a felony traffic stop, and when there are, or may be other people in the car. Officers want the driver to exit first, keep hands up, then walk backward toward the officer until they can cuff them. They want to do this because the officers do not want approach near the vehicle, especially with other people in the car, until they have cleared them and the car first. Officer do not want expose themselves. However, sometimes there is lot going on, and several cops are shouting conflicting commands and the driver/subject gets confused and makes a bad move. Point here is, even if the cops have poor training or procedures, you can still slow everything down and just refuse to move until the police get their act together. There was scared drunk man shot in Arizona a few years ago who after getting conflicting commands made the mistake of reaching down to pull his falling pants up and a cop wasted him. You may have seen the video? Poor guy was just very scared and very drunk. It was a very bad shoot.
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Ummm..
amp.usatoday.com

Maryland cop charged with murder after shooting handcuffed man in police car, chief says

The officer, a 10-year force veteran, allegedly shot William Green seven times, Prince George’s County Police Chief Hank Stawinski said.
amp.usatoday.com
en.wikipedia.org

Killing of Oscar Grant - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
jaeger19 said:
So your argument is that science is wrong..hmmm.
Explains a lot.
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Well, since you brought it up, yes, science is often wrong. It’s one of the reasons all scientific theories are tentative...because there doesn’t exist a method to determine what is true. We can only ever know what isn’t true through contradiction. With regard to the scientific method, that translates to falsification. That brings us full circle to social statistical analysis. The conclusions of which (or hypotheses) are not falsifiable.

Call it whatever you want, just don’t call it science.
 
csense said:
Well, since you brought it up, yes, science is often wrong. It’s one of the reasons all scientific theories are tentative...because there doesn’t exist a method to determine what is true. We can only ever know what isn’t true through contradiction. With regard to the scientific method, that translates to falsification. That brings us full circle to social statistical analysis. The conclusions of which (or hypotheses) are not falsifiable.

Call it whatever you want, just don’t call it science.
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Naww it's science. Wow..your little diatribe was reminiscent of :
"Csense what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Lol.
 
Anthony60 said:
You have a Biden cabinet member speaking to one of these organizations with the words "No justice, no peace" behind him.
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Yep. So?
Do you think there can be peace without justice?
 
Anthony60 said:
What does "no peace" mean to you?
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to me it means it is cavalier to expect peaceful coexistence when some are denied justice
what did i get wrong?
 
jaeger19 said:
Naww it's science. Wow..your little diatribe was reminiscent of :
"Csense what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Lol.
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Believe whatever you want. It’s just one of the many reasons why you guys are going to get crushed in November.

You’re not playing with a full deck, and pretty much the majority of the country can see it by now...
 
csense said:
Believe whatever you want. It’s just one of the many reasons why you guys are going to get crushed in November.

You’re not playing with a full deck, and pretty much the majority of the country can see it by now...
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So you think Republicans are going to get crushed in November.

Frankly..if we get crushed...just like we friggin lost to biden..it will because of the anti common sense..anti education..anti freedom...right wing bs that you whackados in my party support.
 
justabubba said:
to me it means it is cavalier to expect peaceful coexistence when some are denied justice
what did i get wrong?
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We know what it means. And we know what it means when a cabinet member speaks in front of that kind of back drop. It's disgusting and shameful.
 
jaeger19 said:
Well I got to hand it to you. When you are proven wrong...you just double down making the same debunked arguments.
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When you stop stomping your feet and just declaring yourself right without any citations or rebuttals against opposing arguments and instead actually prove something wrong, let me know.

Dude..you are not even smart enough to understand what I said about the justification for the use of deadly force.
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Which wrong thing are you talking about? You've said so much dumb shit about use of force law that it's hard to figure out which dumb shit you're claiming isn't quite as dumb and shitty as it might have first appeared.

Look..you were proven wrong.
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Your foot-stomping isn't proof that I'm wrong. It's proof that you were never a cop and have zero knowledge of use of force law, however.

I mean now dude your argument is the trained policeman is an incompetent fighter..
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And now you resort to lies -- I never said that.

While the man on his hands and knees has ninja like abilities
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Whatever you want to call it, he'd been able to prevent the officer from controlling him for 2.5 minutes. There's no reason to think he's going to stop or that the officer will magically be able to get him under control.

not incapacitate but cause pain
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Pain can be incapacitating. As explained to you before, if drive stun wasn't useful in defeating resistance, it wouldn't be useful as a tool. And the fact that it doesn't cause neuro-muscular incapacitation doesn't mean it can't be incapacitating in other ways.

How'd that drive stun to your balls feel?

But wait..what was your argument..oh yeah..don't believe the manufacturer of the taser..because " lay people " know more.
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Again with the lies. Never said that.

You refuse to address the Graham factors. You refuse to address the fatigue factor. You refuse to address the escalating resistance. Your only response is bullshit assumptions that Lyoya wouldn't be able to get the upper hand against the officer despite him repeatedly doing so already, and that the taser couldn't possibly "incapacitate" the officer for magical reasons.

Make a legal argument. Stop stomping your feet.
 
Tangmo said:
Lotsa real dead bodies and unaccountable cops testify to the fact of a long term continuing National Police Crime Wave against unarmed black males.
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How many "unarmed black males" were killed by cops last year in the US?

Tell me all about this horrible crime wave. Show me the piles of bodies stacked to the sky. Mass graves. Ukrainian-level death.

Show me. Give me a number.
 
Grizzly Adams said:
How many "unarmed black males" were killed by cops last year in the US?

Tell me all about this horrible crime wave. Show me the piles of bodies stacked to the sky. Mass graves. Ukrainian-level death.

Show me. Give me a number.
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I don't respond to desperate hysteria.

It's a National Police Crime Wave against unarmed black Americans, mostly males.
 
You say this:
Tangmo said:
I don't respond to desperate hysteria.
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And then, immediately thereafter, say this:
It's a National Police Crime Wave against unarmed black Americans, mostly males.
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The irony.

It burns.
 
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