Michigan cop on Black man's back, fatally shot him

[Atomic Kid]

[emphasis added by bubba]

there is NOTHING in the video i saw that indicated it was easy for the police officer to control the perp in any manner

It wasn't just not easy, it was clear that officer did not have the physical capacity to be able to do so. This guy wasn't even fighting him. He just merely resisted being put prone to the ground by pushing off the ground from his his hands and knees and standing up and shrugging him off like he was an annoying little kid. Once that had happened twice it should have been clear to this officer that this guy was a little out of his league and he needs to disengage and call for back up. If he runs, he runs. It's already clear he didn't represent any sort of threat to the community since he never once attempted physically strike or harm the cop in any way despite clearly having the capacity and opportunity to do so more than once. I mean really. He has the vehicle, and most likely has his ID his friend was looking for in there too, not to mention his friend could surely ID him and give relevant info as to where he would most likely going to and even help them contact him.

And I gotta tell ya, your use of the term "perp" really chaps my ass. In my opinion it's a racist code word used for any black person alleged to have committed a crime. Even relatively minor ones as what we are discussing here. And that seems to me the way you are using it here as well. And really I would've thought that I could expect better than that from you. Note that no one here has ever referred to Kyle Rittenhouse, or Dylann Roof, as "perps". Much less the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, or Donald Trump and his like minded antidemocracy enablers/followers/and henchmen. It's appears to be a term applied only to the non/white suspects of alleged crimes around here.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Then it should be easy to point to the part of the Grand Rapids Police use of force policy that he clearly violated.

Are you kidding me? They should use the entire video of the incident as a training tool as it practically illustrates everything that one could possibly do wrong in the course of a nonmoving violation traffic stop. Normally you would have to script something like this because one would tend to think nothing like all of that could possibly happen in the course of any single event. But it did.

 

[justabubba]

It wasn't just not easy, it was clear that officer did not have the physical capacity to be able to do so. This guy wasn't even fighting him. He just merely resisted being put prone to the ground by pushing off the ground from his his hands and knees and standing up and shrugging him off like he was an annoying little kid. Once that had happened twice it should have been clear to this officer that this guy was a little out of his league and he needs to disengage and call for back up. If he runs, he runs. It's already clear he didn't represent any sort of threat to the community since he never once attempted physically strike or harm the cop in any way despite clearly having the capacity and opportunity to do so more than once. I mean really. He has the vehicle, and most likely has his ID his friend was looking for in there too, not to mention his friend could surely ID him and give relevant info as to where he would most likely going to and even help them contact him.

it is good that you acknowledge the cop was overmatched by the perp
combine that with the perp continuing to maintain leverage on the taser and it becomes obvious the cop was in peril and at risk
self-defense by the cop was required to avoid significant personal injury

And I gotta tell ya, your use of the term "perp" really chaps my ass. In my opinion it's a racist code word used for any black person alleged to have committed a crime. Even relatively minor ones as what we are discussing here. And that seems to me the way you are using it here as well. And really I would've thought that I could expect better than that from you. Note that no one here has ever referred to Kyle Rittenhouse, or Dylann Roof, as "perps". Much less the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, or Donald Trump and his like minded antidemocracy enablers/followers/and henchmen. It's appears to be a term applied only to the non/white suspects of alleged crimes around here.

appears you need a lifetime supply of chapstick
maybe santa will help out
in the meantime, study your dictionary:

perp​

[ purp ]SHOW IPA



Middle School Level

---

noun Police Slang.
the perpetrator of a crime.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Are you kidding me? They should use the entire video of the incident as a training tool as it practically illustrates everything that one could possibly do wrong in the course of a nonmoving violation traffic stop. Normally you would have to script something like this because one would tend to think nothing like all of that could possibly happen in the course of any single event. But it did.

Then it should be even easier for you to cite the policy violations.

 

[jaeger19]

Then it should be even easier for you to cite the policy violations.

Naw..just look at the criminal charges.

 

[Atomic Kid]

it is good that you acknowledge the cop was overmatched by the perp
combine that with the perp continuing to maintain leverage on the taser and it becomes obvious the cop was in peril and at risk
self-defense by the cop was required to avoid significant personal injury

And it's almost comically silly that you refuse to acknowledge that despite clear evidence of Lyoya's physical superiority over Schurr, he never once attempted to weaponize it. Lyoya never at any point ever demonstrated any intention of physically harming Schurr. Despite having the clear capacity and opportunity to do so, if he so chose. and despite all the kicks and punches Schrurr But he didn't. Instead at every juncture Lyoya sought only to simply keep away from Schurr. Whereas at every juncture where Schurr could have de-escalated the situation, he chose instead to re-escalate it even further. Even though it was Schurr who was aggressively rude to, and even dismissive of Lyoya, right from the very start, and that it was Schurr who initiated the violence and chose to continue the violence throughout the entire episode. Why? Almost certainly because his ego couldn't handle the fact that a black guy was refusing to fully and meekly submit this his 'authority'. And he became enraged and determined to force Lyoya to submit to his authority, no matter what it took. And for purely personal reasons that have no basis in department policy or the law. Schurr executed Lyoya in order to assert his dominance and authority in the most horrific manner one would much more typically expect from that of a hardened criminal, or mafia/gang member. Using one hand to press Lyoya's face against the ground while simultaneously using the other to press the muzzle of his handgun directly against the back of Lyoya's head pulling the trigger in classic gangland slaying style. That is simply, and disgustingly, unacceptable and inexcusable. Especially happening in the course of a simple non-moving traffic violation.

appears you need a lifetime supply of chapstick
maybe santa will help out
in the meantime, study your dictionary:

Appropriate, in terms of this discussion anyways, that you chose a "middle school" level definition. As that would seem the level at which we have been engaging in thus far. It's not just simply the word itself, or it's definition or definitions. It's in the way that you use it. For instance if I call you a "cracker". Am I referring to a dry thin crispy baked bread product that may be leavened or unleavened? Or am I using it as a pejorative, as in usually being an insulting and contemptuous term for a poor, white, usually Southern person? How do you tell? By the way and in the context of which I'm consistently using it. No need for a dictionary. My actions and in how I am consistently using the term should inform you as to my true intentions. I don't need a dictionary to inform me as to how, and in what context, you have been consistently using the term "perp". Which you have reserved the use of it exclusively to describe 'perpetrators' of crimes whose skin color is other than white, or whose lineage/heritage is something other than Caucasian European. While it may not be an inherent meaning of the term. The way in which you use it to disparage, belittle, and even dehumanize the object of your ire as to excuse the state's taking of their lives for relatively minor and even trivial matters, tells me all I need to know about where it is you are coming from. If Santa happens to put some coal in your stocking try not be triggered by the color of it.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Then it should be even easier for you to cite the policy violations.

It is easy to cite. Officer Schurr has been fired by the Grand Rapids police department. And the reason they would do so because that would be is that is how they would sanction an officer for grossly violating Grand Rapids policing policy. That's an internal organizational decision. Not a legal or criminal sanction. The local DA has accused officer Schurr of having committed a crime. A violation of the law. Not department policy. The Grand Rapids police department has taken care of the policy part of it. The criminal part of it is what is coming next.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

It is easy to cite. Officer Schurr has been fired by the Grand Rapids police department. And the reason they would do so because that would be is that is how they would sanction an officer for grossly violating Grand Rapids policing policy.

Which one?

 

[Grizzly Adams]

And it's almost comically silly that you refuse to acknowledge that despite clear evidence of Lyoya's physical superiority over Schurr, he never once attempted to weaponize it. Lyoya never at any point ever demonstrated any intention of physically harming Schurr. Despite having the clear capacity and opportunity to do so, if he so chose. and despite all the kicks and punches Schrurr But he didn't. Instead at every juncture Lyoya sought only to simply keep away from Schurr. Whereas at every juncture where Schurr could have de-escalated the situation, he chose instead to re-escalate it even further. Even though it was Schurr who was aggressively rude to, and even dismissive of Lyoya, right from the very start, and that it was Schurr who initiated the violence and chose to continue the violence throughout the entire episode. Why? Almost certainly because his ego couldn't handle the fact that a black guy was refusing to fully and meekly submit this his 'authority'. And he became enraged and determined to force Lyoya to submit to his authority, no matter what it took. And for purely personal reasons that have no basis in department policy or the law. Schurr executed Lyoya in order to assert his dominance and authority in the most horrific manner one would much more typically expect from that of a hardened criminal, or mafia/gang member.

Armchair amateur psychoanalytic garbage.

There is simply no evidence whatsoever to support your accusations. It is your imagination and fantasy, 100 percent.

Using one hand to press Lyoya's face against the ground

Well, that's just a lie.

while simultaneously using the other to press the muzzle of his handgun directly against the back of Lyoya's head pulling the trigger in classic gangland slaying style

Still can't figure out this obsession with where Lyoya was shot. It's almost pathological, like people who convicted Rittenhouse before he was even charged who constantly beat the drum of, "HE DROVE ACROSS STATE LINES, HE'S A MONSTER!"

Especially happening in the course of a simple non-moving traffic violation.

Why obfuscate? Everyone can see that the deadly force was not because of a traffic violation.

 

[jaeger19]

it is good that you acknowledge the cop was overmatched by the perp
combine that with the perp continuing to maintain leverage on the taser and it becomes obvious the cop was in peril and at risk
self-defense by the cop was required to avoid significant personal injury

appears you need a lifetime supply of chapstick
maybe santa will help out
in the meantime, study your dictionary:

Umm just to point out the policeman was charged with a crime by the DA thus making the policeman the " perp".

 

[Atomic Kid]

Which one?

Who cares which one. It was probably a bunch of them. So take your pick. It takes a special kind of talent to absolutely cluster**** a simple traffic stop to point of it winding up in an execution style killing of an unarmed citizen in broad daylight.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Who cares which one.

Schurr probably does. I do, because I'm asking you. You do, because you insist he violated one.

It takes a special kind of talent to absolutely cluster**** a simple traffic stop to point of it winding up in an execution style killing of an unarmed citizen in broad daylight.

Lyoya had that talent. And he wasn't unarmed.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Armchair amateur psychoanalytic garbage.

There is simply no evidence whatsoever to support your accusations. It is your imagination and fantasy, 100 percent.

Been around for quite some time. Seen a lot and done a lot. And what I learned is to trust my instincts and my instincts are telling me that Schurr was a person weak in both mind and body and the type of person who should never have been given a badge. He was not up to the job but unfortunately his innate incompetence and prejudice wound up in a young man losing life over a minor traffic stop that has left his children fatherless. For what?

Well, that's just a lie.

Is it? Take a look from this still frame from the video just a split second before Schurr fires the fatal shot into the back of Lyoya's skull and tell me you don't see it?

Still can't figure out this obsession with where Lyoya was shot. It's almost pathological, like people who convicted Rittenhouse before he was even charged who constantly beat the drum of, "HE DROVE ACROSS STATE LINES, HE'S A MONSTER!"

For Christ's sake it's not where he was shot. It was how he was shot. Execution style. Tell me do you think he would do the same to a white man? As to Rittenhouse the lesson that little incel should take from Kenosha is that you to want to play policeman and go armed with an AR to a site of civil unrest even though you have no stake. authority, permission, or proper training and the emotional maturity to do so. Then don't act surprise that when you go looking for trouble that you end up finding it, or when it finds you. Should've kept his lilly white wimp ass in his mamma's house and watch it all tv instead

Why obfuscate? Everyone can see that the deadly force was not because of a traffic violation.

What everyone can see is that this traffic stop never should have devolved to that point. That's just piss poor policing that unfortunately took the life of another human being over nothing really.

 

[bluesmoke]

Don't the statistics line up? The black crime rate, and black-on-black murders seems to line up statistically, don't they? Wouldn't this lead to many LEO encounters with blacks? So what's the chance of a black getting killed during a criminal act? What do you think?

Black people get stopped and searched more often than white people though searches produce no more damning evidence in either case. It's being stopped more often that lead to the stats you allude to. You've got it backwards.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Been around for quite some time. Seen a lot and done a lot. And what I learned is to trust my instincts and my instincts are telling me that Schurr was a person weak in both mind and body and the type of person who should never have been given a badge.

Translation: Armchair amateur psychoanalytic garbage; there is simply no evidence whatsoever to support your accusations and it is your imagination and fantasy, 100 percent.

For what?

That's a question only Lyoya could answer.

Is it? Take a look from this still frame from the video just a split second before Schurr fires the fatal shot into the back of Lyoya's skull and tell me you don't see it?
View attachment 67398796

Source? I think that's actually right after the shot, but it doesn't really matter. Schurr's hand is clearly on Lyoya's back, not pushing Lyoya's face into the ground.

For Christ's sake it's not where he was shot. It was how he was shot. Execution style.

Still doesn't make a difference, from a use of force standpoint. Also, I'm coming up short trying to think of any executions where there was a ground fight immediately preceding the execution, where the executioner loses a weapon to the executed.

Tell me do you think he would do the same to a white man?

I have literally zero reasons to think he wouldn't. And neither do you. (None, at least, that aren't based on your bias and prejudice. "Instincts," as you prefer to call it.)

As to Rittenhouse the lesson that little incel should take from Kenosha is that you to want to play policeman and go armed with an AR to a site of civil unrest even though you have no stake. authority, permission, or proper training and the emotional maturity to do so. Then don't act surprise that when you go looking for trouble that you end up finding it, or when it finds you. Should've kept his lilly white wimp ass in his mamma's house and watch it all tv instead

Frothing-at-the-mouth aside, this has nothing to do with the obsession over the fact that he crossed state lines.

What everyone can see is that this traffic stop never should have devolved to that point.

Correct, Lyoya should have just handed his license over and not tried to stall, flee, resist, then take the taser.

It really is unfortunate for his family that Lyoya escalated the encounter, repeatedly, to the point where the officer was reasonably in fear that a weapon was about to be used against him.

 

[bluesmoke]

No.


The suspect escalated.

I feel most people know it's a bad idea to attempt to run from the police, resist arrest, fight them for their weapon, and take their weapon. There are no good outcomes from that situation.

It is arguable that both the victim and the officer escalated the situation. After all, running away for your life can be called an escalation. The weapon was a taser and Lyola was not armed to begin with. This doesn't happen in civilized countries as it does in the US.

 

[justabubba]

It is arguable that both the victim and the officer escalated the situation. After all, running away for your life can be called an escalation. The weapon was a taser and Lyola was not armed to begin with. This doesn't happen in civilized countries as it does in the US.

[emphasis added by bubba]

damn that is one ignorant post

Sudan woman faces stoning for charges of adultery

https://nypost.com/2022/07/13/sudan-woman-faces-stoning-for-charges-of-adultery/ A Sudanese woman has been sentenced to death by stoning after she was convicted of adultery Wednesday. Maryam Alsyed Tiyrab, 20 — who was arrested last month in the West Nile state on adultery charges — was tried...

debatepolitics.com

^ from this very forum
very ****ing civilized

 

[bluesmoke]

[emphasis added by bubba]

damn that is one ignorant post

Sudan woman faces stoning for charges of adultery

https://nypost.com/2022/07/13/sudan-woman-faces-stoning-for-charges-of-adultery/ A Sudanese woman has been sentenced to death by stoning after she was convicted of adultery Wednesday. Maryam Alsyed Tiyrab, 20 — who was arrested last month in the West Nile state on adultery charges — was tried...

debatepolitics.com

^ from this very forum
very ****ing civilized

I stated fact that you didn't refute. The stage of human social and cultural development and organization in the US is less advanced than its peer group. Murder, mass shooting and incarceration rate, among other reasons, are facts that give founding to what I say. It is apparent you are ignorant of those facts.

Is Sudan your standard of determining what constitutes an advanced civilization?

 

[justabubba]

I stated fact that you didn't refute. The stage of human social and cultural development and organization in the US is less advanced than its peer group. Murder, mass shooting and incarceration rate, among other reasons, are facts that give founding to what I say. It is apparent you are ignorant of those facts.

i stated that the OPINION you offered was a bogus conclusion unsupported by fact

Is Sudan your standard of determining what constitutes an advanced civilization?

benchmark what constitutes advanced civilization
and the n explain how you arrived at that conclusion

so yes, i disagreed with your bogus OPINION
there was no fact within your statement

 

[Grizzly Adams]

running away for your life can be called an escalation.

No reasonable person could describe what led up to Lyoya's attempted flight as anything resembling a threat to his life.

He was told his plates were wrong and was then asked for his license. No one has ever died from either of those things in the history of planet Earth.

 

[bluesmoke]

i stated that the OPINION you offered was a bogus conclusion unsupported by fact

benchmark what constitutes advanced civilization
and the n explain how you arrived at that conclusion

so yes, i disagreed with your bogus OPINION
there was no fact within your statement

My opinion is supported by fact which is proven. You are the one refusing to accept those facts.

I claimed: "This doesn't happen in civilized countries as it does in the US." and the "...US is less advanced than its peer group." Neither claim denies that the US has met some benchmark. Both are based on facts, being the extraordinary rate of murder and incarceration in the US. Are you denying those are facts?

Your own benchmark appears to be Sudan. You didn't answer that question.

You, apparently, have a problem with facts

 

[bave]

No reasonable person could describe what led up to Lyoya's attempted flight as anything resembling a threat to his life.

He was told his plates were wrong and was then asked for his license. No one has ever died from either of those things in the history of planet Earth.

Until you grab a cop's taser. That's the issue.

A police officer isn't going to just let you run away whenever encountered, they are going to try and stop you. If during them attempting to stop you from fleeing you grab one of their weapons, bad news.

 

[bluesmoke]

No reasonable person could describe what led up to Lyoya's attempted flight as anything resembling a threat to his life.

He was told his plates were wrong and was then asked for his license. No one has ever died from either of those things in the history of planet Earth.

There is nothing reasonable about the tendency of LEO escalation after stopping black people for any "reason". You have no idea, obviously, of what deadly possibilities they face being stopped by the police.

Lyoya died because of it and the following escalation. Which is a tendency in LEO stops of black people.

 

[bave]

There is nothing reasonable about the tendency of LEO escalation after stopping black people for any "reason". You have no idea, obviously, of what deadly possibilities they face being stopped by the police.

Lyoya died because of it and the following escalation. Which is a tendency in LEO stops of black people.

Odd, been stopped by the police dozens of times for speeding. Often while carrying a handgun. Not once did I have a problem.

Why didn't they randomly escalate with me? Or was it that I behaved myself?

The proximate cause of these events is the *criminal* escalating, not the police officer.

 

[jaeger19]

Odd, been stopped by the police dozens of times for speeding. Often while carrying a handgun. Not once did I have a problem.

Why didn't they randomly escalate with me? Or was it that I behaved myself?

The proximate cause of these events is the *criminal* escalating, not the police officer.

Are you black?