Mich. school practices 11 p.m. to 4 a.m.

[RightinNYC]

One Question Right, WHY have the moved the practice to 1100PM?

Wait for it...


Religion. No if's and's or butts about it.

And why would some schools avoid having practice on Sundays?

 

[Wiseone]

Traditionally YES, that's why Sunday was a day off. Now it's just Tradition. You= :failpail:

Well thats debatable, and more importantly its not what we are debating. Here's what I see, so long as all parties involved are satisfied with whatever arrangements are made regarding considerations for religious respects than there is no issue. If everyone wants to have a pre-game prayer, fine, if no one does, fine, if the coach and players of this football team want a 11pm practice and those non-Muslims are willing to compensate thats fine.

But at the same time its never 100% agreed upon, and sometimes whilst living in a society one must make sacrifices. I'm sure there are non-Muslim players on that team who don't want to practice from 11pm to 4am, but they do anyway because the people in charge decide this consideration to the majority of their players will be made or perhaps they are just good team mates. Perhaps your pre-game prayer was a similar situation, and just had to be given up because of a general societal and community decision.

What I really have a problem here is with the constant whining and complaining and then dragging some totally unrelated issue, this football team, into the picture to complain not only about your lost pre-game prayer but also that MUSLIMS are somehow getting away with something. It seems to me to be such a minor issue and you act like its the end of the world, in my opinion you should refocus this energy on arguing something more meaningful.

 

[Your Star]

Nope, they'll have to bend to a secular society and adapt. That means drinking water to practice, or not playing football.

Society has, through the courts, made it clear that there is no place for Religion in our schools. Why is that true for Christians, but not Muslims? Are THEIR rights more important then everyone elses?

It's not a reasonable request though. Asking a player to completely ignore a big part of their faith won't go over too well. No matter what religion were talking about. A school must accommodate for a students religious beliefs, thats why Jewish kids are allowed to wear a yamaka, muslims a veil. There is a difference between forcing, and accommodating.
Obviously enough students couldn't make practice due to Ramadan, so they made plans accordingly. If it was only one or two students, I'm sure practice would of resumed normally.

 

[Redress]

You should check US Laws, since we are talking about the USA. What happens in Canada is Canada's business.
Florida school district bans Bibles on Religious Freedom Day – The Religion World – Orlando Sentinel

You should also read source material you post. This article is about a legal challenge to a school district deciding to not allow a group to pass out bibles at the school. I kinda suspect that the challenge will succeed as well, since I can't see any justification for not allowing bibles to be passed out after school hours by private groups, as long as other religions can do the same.

For Example


School Prayer in America, Separation of Church and State

The first ruling said schools cannot set aside time for prayer, the second, unlike what your source says, outlawed schools from "composing an official school prayer"(Engel v. Vitale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), the third case involved school sponsered bible reading(Abington School District v. Schempp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and the fourth said that displaying the ten commandments in public school is a violation of separation of church and state. None of those say children cannot pray in school(they can), cannot take bibles to school(they can), cannot read those bibles(again, they can). What they all say is that the school cannot sponsor a religion or religious activity.

These are just fast google search to give you something to refute. If you can do this stuff, with more then just a personal opinion from you, then maybe I am wrong.

And for you, Wiki:

School prayer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are in fact wrong, refutation done.

 

[ludahai]

It sounds like the situation is mutually agreeable to everyone, especially since the team is predominantly Muslim as the article states.

Why would the ACLU get involved if there is no complaint being filed?

Another pointless and baseless attack on Islam.

You mean like when they get involved when teams in strongly Christian communities have a team prayer prior to a game/match and no one on the team is complaining about it?

ACLU double standard if they don't get on this one...

 

[ludahai]

If you can find examples where a school was sued for holding practices mon-sat in order to make it easier for kids to go to church or sun-fri in order to allow kids to observe the sabbath, you'd have a strong argument. I'm not aware of any cases where this occurred, but I could very well be wrong.

Considering that school is in session on Monday through Friday, it is unsprising that team practices would also be those same days of the week.

Nice try, though...

 

[ludahai]

There's a fairly significant difference between a team actually conducting an organized prayer on-field and a team agreeing to schedule their practices at times that will allow their players to meet off-field religious obligations.

This is the equivalent of a team agreeing to practice only mon-sat in order to allow kids to go to church on sunday.

Actually, in my experience, the prayers are student led.

This IS organized. Good practices are HIGHLY organized by a faculty member of the school. That is far more organized than a short student-led prayer before a match...

 

[ludahai]

Muslims can't eat or drink anything during the day during Ramadan, does that include water? If it does than it could be a safety hazard to have these kids doing anything physical on empty stomachs, and lacking hydration. Especially during August heat. I don't think this is putting Islam on some greater pedestal than other religions, just may be a safety precaution.

It does include water. No nothing... You would have to ask Laila if there exceptions for the aged or ill (I hope there is)

I read about an NFL player last week who practices during the day during Ramadan... I think it is dangerous to practice like that in the heat of the day without water. It just doesn't make sense. During Lenten fasts, we are allowed to drink water during the fast. Even not eating after a rigourous workout is not smart (though I am speaking from the perspective of an endurance athlete -- I don't know about gridiron football players) but no water is just plain stupid.

 

[ludahai]

Well what are you gonna do? Not have practice? You can't have the kids have practice when they can't drink water, or eat. It's either not have practice, or have practice at night. The school chose to have practice at night.

Would they do the same and not have a game on Ash Wednesday or Holy Thursday/Good Friday for Catholics. I have heard of Christian schools forfeiting tournament games because the state interscholastic athletic authorities would NOT give such consideration for Christian teams.

 

[ludahai]

Have practice be optional? I don't know, but you can't have these kids practice during the day.

August practices can't be optional. It is the most important time of the season to prepare for the autumn sports schedule. I was a soccer player in high school and all of our core training and teamwork drills were developed in the summer. In season work was mostly about preparing for specific opponents, adjusting to the inevitable injury, or adjusting when things weren't working... You can't miss pre-season two-a-days and three-a-days... simply not an option...

 

[ludahai]

V, you can't really win here. You can either, not have practice because of religion, or change the time because of religion. Either way the school has to accommodate, these students religious practices. Unless you want to cut all the Muslims off of the team, but that would be because of their religion, so I'm assuming you would be opposed to that as well.

The Muslims would be cut from the team because they couldn't make the summer practice schedule, NOT because they were Muslim...

 

[ludahai]

And why would some schools avoid having practice on Sundays?

Because there is no school on Sundays?

 

[Redress]

Actually, in my experience, the prayers are student led.

This IS organized. Good practices are HIGHLY organized by a faculty member of the school. That is far more organized than a short student-led prayer before a match...

Yes, but they are not organized religious activities. An organized prayer in a situation where one has to draw attention to themselves to not take part is something else entirely. I believe that is the legal thought, that organized prayers, even when student led, that force students who wish to not take part to separate themselves are not allowed.

The difference in your example and this is that the prayers are organized religious activities, practice is an organized secular activity.

 

[Redress]

Because there is no school on Sundays?

And why is there no school on Sunday?

 

[ludahai]

Yes, but they are not organized religious activities. An organized prayer in a situation where one has to draw attention to themselves to not take part is something else entirely. I believe that is the legal thought, that organized prayers, even when student led, that force students who wish to not take part to separate themselves are not allowed.

The difference in your example and this is that the prayers are organized religious activities, practice is an organized secular activity.

I have not heard of students being forced to participate in them.

The scheduling of this even is based on religious considerations. The school I used to teach at told teachers not to schedule exams on Jewish holidays, but didn't give similar consideration for Catholics on Holy Thursday/Good Friday.

The hypocrisy regarding treatment of Christians vis a vis other faiths in public life in the U.S. is disgusting, and even more disgusting that many liberals support the hypocrisy...

 

[ludahai]

And why is there no school on Sunday?

Because society decided that it was a good idea for people to rest a couple of days each week? It was originally religious, but now it is a national custom observed by nearly everyong, Christian and non-Christian...

 

[Redress]

I have not heard of students being forced to participate in them.

The scheduling of this even is based on religious considerations. The school I used to teach at told teachers not to schedule exams on Jewish holidays, but didn't give similar consideration for Catholics on Holy Thursday/Good Friday.

The hypocrisy regarding treatment of Christians vis a vis other faiths in public life in the U.S. is disgusting, and even more disgusting that many liberals support the hypocrisy...

Ummm...good Friday is a school holiday, usually is also spring break...

 

[Redress]

Because society decided that it was a good idea for people to rest a couple of days each week? It was originally religious, but now it is a national custom observed by nearly everyong, Christian and non-Christian...

So there is a basis for scheduling around religious observations.

 

[hazlnut]

ESPN - Conversations: Mich. school practices 11 p.m. to 4 a.m.

So how long till the ACLU sues the School on "Separation of Church and State" grounds?

This is just disgusting, a school holding official events based around religion, in the USA? Where we have rules against such!!!

Double-Standard PC BULL**** was responsible for this outrage.

And that Christmas vacation and Easter break....:roll::roll: and all those Jews taking a day off for their high holiday...:roll::roll:

Vicchio, your comments are the highest form of bigotry and ignorance.... disgusting.

What are you so afraid of? How do these folks in Dearborn effect your life one bit?

Where's the double-standard?

 

[ludahai]

Perhaps in your school district, but not where I taught...

 

[ludahai]

And that Christmas vacation and Easter break....:roll::roll: and all those Jews taking a day off for their high holiday...:roll::roll:

Vicchio, your comments are the highest form of bigotry and ignorance.... disgusting.

What are you so afraid of? How do these folks in Dearborn effect your life one bit?

Where's the double-standard?

Christmas is a national holiday, in case you didn't remember, and more often than not, it is now called New Year vacation.

You get Easter Break? Really? I never did. And BTW, Easter falls on a Sunday.

 

[RightinNYC]

Considering that school is in session on Monday through Friday, it is unsprising that team practices would also be those same days of the week.

Nice try, though...

My point is that the fact that school is held monday through friday is convenient for those faiths that observe the sabbath on saturday or sunday. However, mere convenience does not rise to the level of an establishment of religion. I know that at my high school, we also practiced on saturdays (and had games on saturdays) but never on sundays. I just don't see how this is any different.

Actually, in my experience, the prayers are student led.

This IS organized. Good practices are HIGHLY organized by a faculty member of the school. That is far more organized than a short student-led prayer before a match...

I think that engaging in actual prayer is much different than simply practicing at a different time.

 

[Your Star]

The Muslims would be cut from the team because they couldn't make the summer practice schedule, NOT because they were Muslim...

Well, they would miss practice because of their faith. It's safe to assume that if these students were not muslim, that they wouldn't miss practice. You can't have these kids practice during the day, unless you want dead high school football player headlines in the news. The school is making the best out of a complicated situation.

 

[hazlnut]

Christmas is a national holiday, in case you didn't remember, and more often than not, it is now called New Year vacation.

You get Easter Break? Really? I never did. And BTW, Easter falls on a Sunday.

Think about it...

Why do schools either give the week before Easter or the week after Easter off? Spring break? It's all about the bunny.

Christmas (one day) is indeed a National Holiday... which schools observe with a two-week break. And most people still call that -- CHRISTMAS VACATION.

The point you seem to have missed is schools all over the country observe Christian holidays -- or schedule their semesters around the Christian tradition.

Adjusting 2-a-day FB practices so that all the team participants can make practice is hardly the big deal Vicchio and his far-right sources are trying to make it out to be.

 

[Tucker Case]

Because there is no school on Sundays?

There's no school on satrudays, but we practiced on Saturdays when I played high school football.

There's no school in the summer, but we practiced in teh summer when I played high school football.