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Mich. school practices 11 p.m. to 4 a.m.

Renae

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DEARBORN, Mich. -- A Michigan high school football team is holding preseason practices in the middle of the night to help its Muslim players practice both faith and football. The predominantly Muslim squad from Dearborn says the nocturnal regimen is a way for players to eat and drink while observing the holy month of daytime fasting known as Ramadan that started last week. The August heat also played a factor in Fordson High coach Fouad Zaban's proposal to reverse the clock for a week of two- ...
ESPN - Conversations: Mich. school practices 11 p.m. to 4 a.m.

So how long till the ACLU sues the School on "Separation of Church and State" grounds?

This is just disgusting, a school holding official events based around religion, in the USA? Where we have rules against such!!!

Double-Standard PC BULL**** was responsible for this outrage.
 

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It sounds like the situation is mutually agreeable to everyone, especially since the team is predominantly Muslim as the article states.

Why would the ACLU get involved if there is no complaint being filed?

Another pointless and baseless attack on Islam.
 

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ESPN - Conversations: Mich. school practices 11 p.m. to 4 a.m.

So how long till the ACLU sues the School on "Separation of Church and State" grounds?

This is just disgusting, a school holding official events based around religion, in the USA? Where we have rules against such!!!

Double-Standard PC BULL**** was responsible for this outrage.
If you can find examples where a school was sued for holding practices mon-sat in order to make it easier for kids to go to church or sun-fri in order to allow kids to observe the sabbath, you'd have a strong argument. I'm not aware of any cases where this occurred, but I could very well be wrong.
 

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considering it says the team is mostly Muslim, it'd be pretty stupid to hold practice without them.
 

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It sounds like the situation is mutually agreeable to everyone, especially since the team is predominantly Muslim as the article states.

Why would the ACLU get involved if there is no complaint being filed?

Another pointless and baseless attack on Islam.

OH WTFEVER dude.

When I play HS Football, we started EACH GAME with a prayer. We cannot do that anymore. Didn't matter if it was "mutually agreeable to everyone" some worthless asshat in one town ruined it for all of us.

You sir, are a dishonest poster, wherein my post did I "attack Islam"? NO WHERE. I attacked the double standard that has people scared ****less of "offending" Islam or being seen as being "anti-Islamic".

Sorry bud, I hope someone, just one person sues the school, and their lawyer uses the "School Prayer" judgment to force them to practice during the day.
 

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If you can find examples where a school was sued for holding practices mon-sat in order to make it easier for kids to go to church or sun-fri in order to allow kids to observe the sabbath, you'd have a strong argument. I'm not aware of any cases where this occurred, but I could very well be wrong.
I'm using the "No Prayer Before" games to angle that this is a RELIGIOUS move, using state property/resources. Wasn't that the basis for banning prayer before games? I'm still pissed as hell about that.
 

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Last time I checked, Muslims are allowed to do their daily prayers at school just as Christians are allowed to read the Bible. There is no hypocrisy here. Changing the football practice time to accommodate Ramadan is hardly a double standard, especially when the team is mostly Muslim.
 

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Stop whining for God's sake. I don't know the circumstances around your inability to pray before a football game now, but regardless of whether that ban was right or wrong there's obviously nothing wrong with these high school students practicing the way they are.

Do you really feel the need to take away something from someone else just because something was taken from you? Its childish spite, and worse than that its spite directed at another group entirely innocence and unrelated to whatever stopped you from praying before games. So please grow up.

This is like tattling on your friend for doing exactly what you were doing just because you were angry you got caught and would feel better if someone else suffered the same treatment for something you obviously didnt think was wrong otherwise you wouldnt be doing it in the first place.
 

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OH WTFEVER dude.

When I play HS Football, we started EACH GAME with a prayer. We cannot do that anymore. Didn't matter if it was "mutually agreeable to everyone" some worthless asshat in one town ruined it for all of us.

You sir, are a dishonest poster, wherein my post did I "attack Islam"? NO WHERE. I attacked the double standard that has people scared ****less of "offending" Islam or being seen as being "anti-Islamic".

Sorry bud, I hope someone, just one person sues the school, and their lawyer uses the "School Prayer" judgment to force them to practice during the day.
There's a fairly significant difference between a team actually conducting an organized prayer on-field and a team agreeing to schedule their practices at times that will allow their players to meet off-field religious obligations.

This is the equivalent of a team agreeing to practice only mon-sat in order to allow kids to go to church on sunday.
 

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Last time I checked, Muslims are allowed to do their daily prayers at school just as Christians are allowed to read the Bible. There is no hypocrisy here. Changing the football practice time to accommodate Ramadan is hardly a double standard, especially when the team is mostly Muslim.
You should check US Laws, since we are talking about the USA. What happens in Canada is Canada's business.
Florida school district bans Bibles on Religious Freedom Day – The Religion World – Orlando Sentinel

Maitland-based Liberty Counsel filed a lawsuit Thursday to overturn a ban on Bible distribution on public school campuses in Collier County. According to the Liberty Counsel, the Collier County School Board allowed World Changers to distribute free Bibles to students during off-school hours on Religious Freedom Day, but now the school officials claim that Bibles do not provide any educational benefit to the students and the distribution should stop.
Florida school district bans Bibles on Religious Freedom Day – The Religion World – Orlando Sentinel

For Example

Today's Schools without Prayer:
The ACLU then started using the courts to change school policy. In 1948 the Supreme court used the "Separation of Church and State" argument to outlaw a time for school prayer. In 1962 the Supreme Court again declared that prayer in school was unconstitutional. In 1963 the Warren Court stopped schools from allowing Bible reading in classes. In 1980 the Supreme Court declared that posting the Ten Commandments in a school classroom violated the Constitution of the United States.
School Prayer in America, Separation of Church and State

These are just fast google search to give you something to refute. If you can do this stuff, with more then just a personal opinion from you, then maybe I am wrong.

And for you, Wiki:
Main articles: Education in the United States and Religion in the United States
In the United States, public schools are prohibited from sponsoring religious observances such as daily prayer. Prayer itself is not forbidden while at school. Regarding the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment, the courts have consistently ruled that students' expressions of religious views through prayer or otherwise cannot be abridged unless they can be shown to cause substantial disruption in the school.
[edit]Controversy in United States
The issue has been controversial in the United States since the early 20th century. In the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries, school days, in some parts of the country, customarily opened with an oral prayer or Bible reading.[1] From time to time, religious minorities would object to the particular observance performed in the local schools. For instance, in the Edgerton Bible Case (Weiss v. District Board [1890]), the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled in favor of Catholics who objected to the use of the King James Bible in Wisconsin public schools. This ruling was based on the state constitution and only applied in Wisconsin, but, like other challenges elsewhere in the country, provided a precedent for federal rulings to come later.[2]
Those rulings were two landmark Supreme Court decisions, Engel v. Vitale [1962] and Abington School District v. Schempp [1963] (which included the well publicised case of Murray v. Curlett), establishing the current prohibition on state-sponsored prayer in schools. Following these two cases came the Court's decision in Lemon v. Kurtzman [1971]. This ruling established the so-called "Lemon test" which states that in order to be constitutional under the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment any practice sponsored within state run schools (or other public, state sponsored activities) must:
Have a secular purpose;
Must neither advance nor inhibit religion as its primary effect, and;
Must not result in an excessive entanglement between government and religion.
[edit]Attempts at reinstatement
Reinstatement of state-sponsored prayer has been attempted in different forms in a number of areas of the U.S. Some jurisdictions have introduced a "moment of silence" or "moment of reflection" when a student may, if he or she wishes to, offer a silent prayer.
Since the 1990s, controversy in the courts has tended to revolve around prayer at school-sponsored extracurricular activities. Some courts have allowed student prayers from the podium at graduation exercises[citation needed], but, in Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe [2000], the Supreme Court upheld a lower court ruling invalidating prayers conducted over the public address system prior to high school games at state school facilities before a school-gathered audience.
Proponents of school-sponsored prayer are largely, but not exclusively, Christians of various denominations; however, some major Christian denominations are opposed to the practice. Many of the key cases against government-sponsored school prayer have been filed by Christians in regions of the country where they are a minority, such as the Catholic and LDS (Mormon) families who filed in Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe in the overwhelmingly Southern Baptist Texas Gulf Coast.
School prayer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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Stop whining for God's sake. I don't know the circumstances around your inability to pray before a football game now, but regardless of whether that ban was right or wrong there's obviously nothing wrong with these high school students practicing the way they are.

Do you really feel the need to take away something from someone else just because something was taken from you? Its childish spite, and worse than that its spite directed at another group entirely innocence and unrelated to whatever stopped you from praying before games. So please grow up.

This is like tattling on your friend for doing exactly what you were doing just because you were angry you got caught and would feel better if someone else suffered the same treatment for something you obviously didnt think was wrong otherwise you wouldnt be doing it in the first place.
No, it's the "State" giving preference to a religion in an extra-curricular activity. You live in Az, that's why there is no prayer before a game bud.
 

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Muslims can't eat or drink anything during the day during Ramadan, does that include water? If it does than it could be a safety hazard to have these kids doing anything physical on empty stomachs, and lacking hydration. Especially during August heat. I don't think this is putting Islam on some greater pedestal than other religions, just may be a safety precaution.
 

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There's a fairly significant difference between a team actually conducting an organized prayer on-field and a team agreeing to schedule their practices at times that will allow their players to meet off-field religious obligations.

This is the equivalent of a team agreeing to practice only mon-sat in order to allow kids to go to church on sunday.
Not really Right.
Both are instances of the "state" giving preference to a "religion". And using "state" resources to accommodate said religion. Further more, all it will take is one player to file a lawsuit, claiming he felt intimidated into agreeing to these late night practices for Islam...
 

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Muslims can't eat or drink anything during the day during Ramadan, does that include water? If it does than it could be a safety hazard to have these kids doing anything physical on empty stomachs, and lacking hydration. Especially during August heat. I don't think this is putting Islam on some greater pedestal than other religions, just may be a safety precaution.
Rationalizing allowing Religion to affect school decisions. (I know, 2 a days are REALLY rough, and yes, you NEED to drink water. I won't argue that at all)

Look, I really DON'T care, however it's the double standard that has me ticked off. Could you imagine a school changing Baseball Practice to accommodate Lent? You think there would be all this "understanding and defense" of it? I think not.
 

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Rationalizing allowing Religion to affect school decisions. (I know, 2 a days are REALLY rough, and yes, you NEED to drink water. I won't argue that at all)

Look, I really DON'T care, however it's the double standard that has me ticked off. Could you imagine a school changing Baseball Practice to accommodate Lent? You think there would be all this "understanding and defense" of it? I think not.
Well what are you gonna do? Not have practice? You can't have the kids have practice when they can't drink water, or eat. It's either not have practice, or have practice at night. The school chose to have practice at night.
 

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No, it's the "State" giving preference to a religion in an extra-curricular activity. You live in Az, that's why there is no prayer before a game bud.
No its not the state, its a school board or more likely a single principal and the foot ball coach. This isn't a state or federal policy, its a few local leaders making a decision about how to best accommodate their students and the local people. They are staying out of your way, so stay outta there's.

Have you considered that by advocating these students should not be allowed to have this kind of practice you are in fact taking the exact same position as those who removed your pre-game pray. You ARE exactly what you hate.
 

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Well what are you gonna do? Not have practice? You can't have the kids have practice when they can't drink water, or eat. It's either not have practice, or have practice at night. The school chose to have practice at night.
For religious reasons. What about the kids that aren't Muslim? Why should they be forced to do this? Do they not matter?
 

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No its not the state, its a school board or more likely a single principal and the foot ball coach. This isn't a state or federal policy, its a few local leaders making a decision about how to best accommodate their students and the local people. They are staying out of your way, so stay outta there's.

Have you considered that by advocating these students should not be allowed to have this kind of practice you are in fact taking the exact same position as those who removed your pre-game pray. You ARE exactly what you hate.
I'm pointing out hypocrisy, tyvm. And PC craptasticness
 

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For religious reasons. What about the kids that aren't Muslim? Why should they be forced to do this? Do they not matter?
Have practice be optional? I don't know, but you can't have these kids practice during the day.
 

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Not really Right.
Both are instances of the "state" giving preference to a "religion". And using "state" resources to accommodate said religion. Further more, all it will take is one player to file a lawsuit, claiming he felt intimidated into agreeing to these late night practices for Islam...
How is the state giving preference to a religion or otherwise using state resources to accomodate that religion? Again, how is this any different than choosing not to hold practice on Sundays?
 
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How is the state giving preference to a religion or otherwise using state resources to accomodate that religion? Again, how is this any different than choosing not to hold practice on Sundays?
One Question Right, WHY have the moved the practice to 1100PM?

Wait for it...


Religion. No if's and's or butts about it.
 

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One Question Right, WHY have the moved the practice to 1100PM?

Wait for it...


Religion. No if's and's or butts about it.
V, you can't really win here. You can either, not have practice because of religion, or change the time because of religion. Either way the school has to accommodate, these students religious practices. Unless you want to cut all the Muslims off of the team, but that would be because of their religion, so I'm assuming you would be opposed to that as well.
 

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V, you can't really win here. You can either, not have practice because of religion, or change the time because of religion. Either way the school has to accommodate, these students religious practices. Unless you want to cut all the Muslims off of the team, but that would be because of their religion, so I'm assuming you would be opposed to that as well.
Nope, they'll have to bend to a secular society and adapt. That means drinking water to practice, or not playing football.

Society has, through the courts, made it clear that there is no place for Religion in our schools. Why is that true for Christians, but not Muslims? Are THEIR rights more important then everyone elses?
 

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One Question Right, WHY have the moved the practice to 1100PM?

Wait for it...

Religion. No if's and's or butts about it.
Why do you not have classes on a Sunday?

Wait for it...

Religion. So clearly its hypocritical that you can't pray at football, this school lets its Muslims players practice at 11pm, and students dont go to classes on Sunday, despite the fact that going to school for an extra day would mean that much more learning and be much more efficient.

Or maybe its that we don't go to school on Sunday for the reason they pratice at 11pm, because a large number of people have a religious obligation and tradition and so we build our society and community around that. Regarding sunday classes its a national consideration, regarding the Muslim holy month its only a local one at a single high school, but the only difference between the two is scale.

Would you then be suggesting its hypocritical for the ACLU or whoever your boogey-men are to not be advocating for the removal of Sunday from the weekend and as a designated "rest day?" It sounds to me like you see all issues or questions which involve religion even in the slightest to all have one universal answer, and to make considerations for one of these issues but not another is hypocrisy.

Anyone can see the issues are more complex than that.
 

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Why do you not have classes on a Sunday?

Wait for it...

Religion. So clearly its hypocritical that you can't pray at football, this school lets its Muslims players practice at 11pm, and students dont go to classes on Sunday, despite the fact that going to school for an extra day would mean that much more learning and be much more efficient.

Or maybe its that we don't go to school on Sunday for the reason they pratice at 11pm, because a large number of people have a religious obligation and tradition and so we build our society and community around that. Regarding sunday classes its a national consideration, regarding the Muslim holy month its only a local one at a single high school, but the only difference between the two is scale.

Would you then be suggesting its hypocritical for the ACLU or whoever your boogey-men are to not be advocating for the removal of Sunday from the weekend and as a designated "rest day?" It sounds to me like you see all issues or questions which involve religion even in the slightest to all have one universal answer, and to make considerations for one of these issues but not another is hypocrisy.

Anyone can see the issues are more complex than that.
Traditionally YES, that's why Sunday was a day off. Now it's just Tradition. You= :failpail:
 
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