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Methodist minister challenges Oklahoma license plate

Should the Minister be able to get another plate without additonal charge?

  • Yes, but he may still have to pay a charge still to be "fair"

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .

Shadow Serious

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Very basically he is changing due to the image on the license plate has a religious interpretation and is offensive to his Christian beliefs.

the article is here.




When Oklahoma looked to redesign its license plate five years ago, the iconic image of a young Apache warrior shooting an arrow skyward depicted in Allen Houser's "Sacred Rain Arrow" statue was a clear choice of a public that looked at more than 40 designs that featured Native American art, cowboy images and western and wildlife themes.

...


But a Methodist minister claims the plate is an affront to his Christian beliefs, and a federal appeals court ruled last week that the minister's case can proceed.


"I think it's important to understand that whether it was a Native American symbol or a symbol of any other faith, the issue would be the same," said Keith Cressman, pastor at the St. Marks United Methodist Church in Bethany.


I decided to make this a poll. Do you think that the Minister has a point and that he should be able to get another plate without additional charge?
 

soccerboy22

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No I don't think he has a point. Being offended by something does not give you the right to get a different license plate for free.
 

jamesrage

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A depiction of an Indian is not government endorsing or prohibiting religion. Its stupid as hell when atheist get all butt hurt over this and sue,its just as stupid when religious people do the same ****.
 

notquiteright

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Very basically he is changing due to the image on the license plate has a religious interpretation and is offensive to his Christian beliefs. I decided to make this a poll. Do you think that the Minister has a point and that he should be able to get another plate without additional charge?

I was born in Oklahoma and once out of the service I came back here. I doubt he will get a new plate, some folks have a problem separating culture from religion, a sand painting would be banned, our state flag would be banned, much of what we use symbolically for Native American Culture would be banned. I guess that leaves only heaps of massacred 'Ingins' and unpainted tee pees. The Buffalo is out on coins, the Eagle is prized for it's feathers so that's out for our national symbol. Well damn near every critter you can think of is in native American 'religion'. I think we are left with the ant as our national symbol. :roll:
 

Sarcogito

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A depiction of an Indian is not government endorsing or prohibiting religion.

I agree, however in looking into this story a bit apprantly this PARTICULAR image "features a warrior shooting the arrow skyward as part of a ritual involving a prayer for rain".

So can see where the argument is coming from.The question for me is whether or not the court draws a distinction between a religious icon and an image of someone DOING something religious. It isn’t like any Native Americans worship this statue. It is just a statue of someone DOING something religious in nature.
 

Kanstantine

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Its Oklahoma, for Christ's sake.

The last place that the USA declared would be Native American land, before the Sooners were allow to trash that idea.

This minister should do some thinking.
 

notquiteright

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I agree, however in looking into this story a bit apprantly this PARTICULAR image "features a warrior shooting the arrow skyward as part of a ritual involving a prayer for rain". So can see where the argument is coming from.The question for me is whether or not the court draws a distinction between a religious icon and an image of someone DOING something religious. It isn’t like any Native Americans worship this statue. It is just a statue of someone DOING something religious in nature.

I see the argument behind that but at that rate so would a picture of the rain cannons white folks used to try and break the drought, lots of prayer revolved around that activity.

I really don't think 99% of Oklahomans knew/cared what the image stands for, it was the winner of a state wide contest. Would be an interesting decision- will of the people of Oklahoma vs the strictest of applications of separation.

I liked the old plate with the state symbol of the Osage war shield but my Comanche kin sure didn't. maybe we can have a rotation of tribal symbols from here on out.

After all, it is Native America.... :peace
 

Shadow Serious

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I was born in Oklahoma and once out of the service I came back here. I doubt he will get a new plate, some folks have a problem separating culture from religion, a sand painting would be banned, our state flag would be banned, much of what we use symbolically for Native American Culture would be banned. I guess that leaves only heaps of massacred 'Ingins' and unpainted tee pees. The Buffalo is out on coins, the Eagle is prized for it's feathers so that's out for our national symbol. Well damn near every critter you can think of is in native American 'religion'. I think we are left with the ant as our national symbol. :roll:

I spent most of my life here and I consider calling the icon on the license plate respecting a establishment of religion a bit of a stretch. (I love understatement)
 

VanceMack

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No I don't think he has a point. Being offended by something does not give you the right to get a different license plate for free.
No...it gives you the right to file lawsuits and ban the vast majority from doing that thing you find offensive.
 

Monserrat

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Very basically he is changing due to the image on the license plate has a religious interpretation and is offensive to his Christian beliefs.

the article is here.







I decided to make this a poll. Do you think that the Minister has a point and that he should be able to get another plate without additional charge?
This is another "people are just too ****ing sensitive" topics. Native american culture is a part of our natural heritage, it's nothing to cry about it just is.

(directed at those who are offended by this) Do you people really care all that much or are you just angry that liberals go all ape **** any time anything christian pops up anywhere?
 

nota bene

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I agree, however in looking into this story a bit apprantly this PARTICULAR image "features a warrior shooting the arrow skyward as part of a ritual involving a prayer for rain".

So can see where the argument is coming from.The question for me is whether or not the court draws a distinction between a religious icon and an image of someone DOING something religious. It isn’t like any Native Americans worship this statue. It is just a statue of someone DOING something religious in nature.

I wonder just how many people pay attention to license plates anyway. How many might see that plate and not think any further (I might be among them) than, "Oh, neat--a Native American shooting an arrow" or "Nice how Oklahome is celebrating its Native American heritage"?

So long as whatever's depicted or written isn't profane or obscene, I don't have a problem.
 

ChezC3

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I believe this type of "sensitivity" is what gets Christians in the trouble they're in.

At base what is this Apache Archer? A symbol. Symbols are interpreted in different ways. It is the meanings we attach in which they derive their value. Simply put, it is up to the individual to determine what meaning they put -- if any -- on any given symbol.

For instance, the cross, for a non-Christian seeing a cross on the street-side can just as easily mean "The road's closed". Yet some pretend, no, we won't say pretend, we shall say choose, to give meaning to that symbol, they choose to get offended, or find solace, depending, and they allow themselves, again, they choose to work themselves all into a lather because the cross or the Apache Archer -- offends them!!!

This Wesleyan -- whatever his motives, should, instead of getting offended, take that energy, and that extra $15 dollars or whatever and be pleased in all of his righteousness that he is afforded the opportunity to pay more for the privilege to get a license plate which reads "In God We Trust".

People really don't know how to choose their battles these days, I swear...
 

iliveonramen

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Honestly I have no problem with him challenging this in court. That's the purpose of the courts.

I think it's pretty telling though! I think a lot of times the movements to put religion back into X public space isn't about religion it's about Christianity.
 

Superfly

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I wonder if this guy went to the Pat Robertson school of thinking? Come onnnn..... lighten up and quit being so butthurt about everything. If you don't like the license plate, get off your wallet and spend $35 whole dollars to get another one. Sheesh. :roll:
 

Superfly

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clownboy

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Someone needs to tell the press that not everything is news.

I'm okay with him taking it to court, but only if when he loses, we can all line up and kick the guy in the nards. What an idiot.
 

notquiteright

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I wonder if this guy went to the Pat Robertson school of thinking? Come onnnn..... lighten up and quit being so butthurt about everything. If you don't like the license plate, get off your wallet and spend $35 whole dollars to get another one. Sheesh. :roll:

Well Edmond, OK is a bedroom community for OKC. It is also a Religious hot spot with Evangelical broadcast stations, religious educational institutions, so it isn't a huge surprise the preacher is based there. Don't forget in the Eastern part of the State we have Oral Roberts University. That guy climbed into his tower and said GAWD would take him by thisnsuch a date if he didn't raise a big amount of money. GAWD as an extortionist! :roll:

Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto GAWD what is GAWD's. Pay for the tag and glue a fish on your trunk. :roll:
 

Hard Truth

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Are Apaches still shooting arrows for the rain gods? If yes, its arguably religious. If no, then its just a reference to a defunct historic practice, similar to the statues of the goddesses of liberty and justice.
 

notquiteright

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Are Apaches still shooting arrows for the rain gods? If yes, its arguably religious. If no, then its just a reference to a defunct historic practice, similar to the statues of the goddesses of liberty and justice.

I had never heard of the arrow shooting thing. I live in SW OK and that was the Kiowa, Comanche, Apache Reservation. my second Cuz is Comanche and i have attended several Kiowa/Comanche pow-wows, they do rain dances. After a few beers I can do the Prairie Chicken with the best of 'em.

On the interwebz there is no mention of arrows, just Apache rain dances.

Who knows, I am betting an Oral Roberts U save me buck neither does the Preacher....
 

radcen

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This crap comes up every so often, and this crap is why I think states shouldn't be in the business of selling boutique license plates to begin with. Just a single standard plain plate that everybody gets.
 

Dapper Andy

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This isn't any different from the nonsense that always surrounds Christianity but I think that's silly so I choose the third option.
 
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