• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Message to all fellow Liberals: Please support Terri Schiavo's right to live

craigfarmer

Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Messages
175
Reaction score
6
We should support Terri Schiavo's right to live. It is the right thing to do. As liberals we are always trying to protect the most vulnerable in society. In this case, there really isn't any viable other side of the argument. There's no evidence that she's in pain or suffering. Even were she, that would indicate medication not DEATH.

I believe in the power of God. If it is God's will to "wake" her up in 10 or 20 years, we should be apart of that process.

The sad reality is that once again it is the Republicans taking a novel approach to a situation to advance their cause.

The House of Representatives is planning on using its' power to investigate her case to prevent removal of her feeding tube. This may bring about a clash of the Separation of Powers between Congress and the Courts. It is a just battle.

Technology and human knowledge is ever-changing. Today we have conquered many diseases that terrorized humankind just a few years ago.

I don't know all the facts.

I do know, I want to be on the side of hope, technology, and prayer.

Let's join together and support this woman's humanity.


Craig Farmer
making the word "liberal" safe again!
 

Schweddy

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
11,901
Reaction score
6,021
Location
Plano, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I cannot support this.
You're right - we do not know all the facts!

My wife and I have an agreement.
If one of us was in this type of situation we will pull the plug and find another partner.

If her family tries to get in the way - I would take them to court and fight it with everything I could muster.

I am not saying that he is in the right, but I am saying that I understand IF that is his motivation.

This should fall on the legal system and not emotions.
 

craigfarmer

Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Messages
175
Reaction score
6
without any undisputable evidence, she should live.


Even with that evidence of a living will , I would make sure there was truly NO,NO hope for a recovery, but then I would adhere to her wishes.


Either way on the politics,

Republicans have found another winner, either way.

Democrats, we need to choose our battles better:

we fight on issues like:

to block an amendment that says "marriage is between one man and one woman" because it is writing discrimination in the Const. say some

while the republicans are fighting to save Terri's life, because all life is valuable and sacred.


Hmmm. I wonder why my side is in the minority.
 

Kenneth T. Cornelius

Active member
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
255
Reaction score
4
while the republicans are fighting to save Terri's life, because all life is valuable and sacred.
A mosquito is alive. Do you swat mosquitos? Some lives are evidently not "valuable and sacred."
 

Schweddy

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
11,901
Reaction score
6,021
Location
Plano, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
craigfarmer said:
I would make sure there was truly NO,NO hope for a recovery, but then I would adhere to her wishes.
The woman is brain dead. Doctors have said there is no hope. She does indeed have very limited movement, but they are incoherent reflexes.

The media is using the same strategy that Bush was accused of during this last election. Pull on the heart, moral, and religious themes to gain an edge and market share.

Hmmm. I wonder why my side is in the minority.
I believe my position is the minority actually.
 

Batman

Active member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
407
Reaction score
7
Location
Fulton, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
vauge said:
The woman is brain dead. Doctors have said there is no hope. She does indeed have very limited movement, but they are incoherent reflexes.

The media is using the same strategy that Bush was accused of during this last election. Pull on the heart, moral, and religious themes to gain an edge and market share.


I believe my position is the minority actually.
I hate to disagree with you - but a person who follows people around the room with their eyes can't be brain dead. I can't see how that is a muscle reflex either. I just saw a report where a doctor said it could take up to two weeks to die after the tube is removed. It's not starving - it's dehydration he said. He admitted that there could be discomfort but it can be treated with water spray to sooth the tongue and lip balm to keep the lips from cracking. Other than that it's peaceful.
Kentucky arrested people for shooting dogs at at a pound as a means of putting them down. What would happen if they did this to a dog?
 

Schweddy

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
11,901
Reaction score
6,021
Location
Plano, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Batman, didn't think it would happen. :(

Here is an interesting read...

http://www.rangelmd.com/2003/10/terri-schiavo-case.html

Most people seeing this case for the first time on the news have seen the video clips of Terri that her family has released. What you see is a smiling woman reaching for her mother. There is no possible way that this woman could be in a "persistently vegetative state" as the court and doctors say she is! Right? The problem here is that people are confusing the concept of "coma" where a patient is completely unresponsive to stimuli with "persistent vegetative state" where the patient has intact reflexes (such as movements and facial expressions) but no awareness or conscious thought. In hearing testimony from five physicians (two for Michael, two for Terri's parents, and one independent), the court concluded that there was no convincing evidence that Terri was capable of any conscious thought;

At first blush, the video of Terry Schiavo appearing to smile and look lovingly at her mother seemed to represent cognition. This was also true for how she followed the Mickey Mouse balloon held by her father. The court has carefully viewed the videotapes as requested by counsel and does find that these actions were neither consistent nor reproducible. For instance, Terry Schiavo appeared to have the same look on her face when Dr. Cranford rubbed her neck. Dr. Greer testified she had a smile during his (non-videoed) examination. Also, Mr. Schindler tried several more times to have her eyes follow the Mickey Mouse balloon but without success. Also, she clearly does not consistently respond to her mother. The court finds that based on the credible evidence, cognitive function would manifest itself in a constant response to stimuli.

Even though there is no technical way to measure or evaluate conscious thought there is the additional evidence of the CAT scan of Terri's brain that proves that the critical areas of the brain necessary for conscious thought (the cortex) is either gone or severely damaged. This scan is consistent with Terri's clinical presentation. She has intact reflexes (purposeless movements, breathing, digestion, temperature regulation) that only require the most basic structures of the brain, the brain stem, and the spinal cord to be intact in order to function. Given the evidence of the clinical exam and the head scans and the fact that she has been in this state for over 10 years without any change, the likelihood that Terri has any self awareness or conscious thought to any extent is slim to none.

We don't know for sure because there is no direct way of measuring this and conservatives and "right-to-life" proponents will cling to this uncertainty as their argument for keeping these patients alive. But this is a closed argument because it cannot be currently proven 100% that there is no "Terri" inside her body despite the large amount of evidence that makes this highly unlikely.
 

Strangelove

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
74
Reaction score
1
Location
simi valley
...Many interesting angles here...

I find myself agreeing with a liberal, disagreeing with a conservative (I think).


also, the issue of guardianship. Who has ultimate control of Terri's care, the parents or the husband? If it was my daughter, I'd be at her husband's throat.

any lawyers in here?

Some facts:
-the husband was awarded 1.7 million dollars to care for here. The shorter her life, the more money he has to himself.
-the husband is now with another woman.
-an anonymous donor has put up I million dollars to care for her, yet the husband still wants her to die a slow, miserable death
-in 50 states, you will be charged with a crime if you starve an animal. Is Terri's life worth less than an animal's?
 

Schweddy

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
11,901
Reaction score
6,021
Location
Plano, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
She has no brain activity, so is she alive?
 

freedom69714

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2005
Messages
211
Reaction score
2
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
How sad the sick republican wacko are making a political issue out of this woman miserable situation a Little common sense goes a long way i agree with Vauge ........I know if I was anywhere near this poor woman situation I would want to pull the plug .......I stand with her husband he has been offer up to $10 million to allow her to live so I know his motivation is not money.

Your right the low life republican party is sick enough to make a issue out of any sick issue

Just the facts
Freedom69
 

Batman

Active member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
407
Reaction score
7
Location
Fulton, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
"no brain activity" Terri's brother said there has been no CT scan or MRI. Who and how did they come to that conclusion.

The parents have said they will bear all financial burdens - there was even a guy who offered a million dollars to the husband to walk and let the parents have her to take care of.

The brother of Terri was on Hannity - they think the husband could have abused her and put her in this state. What if she were to wake up and say "Yeah he did it." Could explain the husband's reason for wanting her dead.
And that judge should have his butt ran up a flag pole for making this order and not obeying a congressional subpoena that gives Terri protective rights.
 

Squawker

Professor
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
4
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The brother of Terri was on Hannity - they think the husband could have abused her and put her in this state. What if she were to wake up and say "Yeah he did it." Could explain the husband's reason for wanting her dead.
I don't think I believe that one. I heard she was bulimic, so the potassium deficiency would follow, which caused her condition.
 

anomaly

Anti-Capitalist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
1,020
Reaction score
6
Location
IN
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Batman said:
"no brain activity" Terri's brother said there has been no CT scan or MRI. Who and how did they come to that conclusion.

The parents have said they will bear all financial burdens - there was even a guy who offered a million dollars to the husband to walk and let the parents have her to take care of.

The brother of Terri was on Hannity - they think the husband could have abused her and put her in this state. What if she were to wake up and say "Yeah he did it." Could explain the husband's reason for wanting her dead.
And that judge should have his butt ran up a flag pole for making this order and not obeying a congressional subpoena that gives Terri protective rights.
Sometimes relentless optimism is not the best policy. Medical experts have consistent;y said that there is zero chance of her 'waking up'. The husband seems to have been taking care of here well for almost 15 years, isn't it time to give him his freedom from her? And doesn't she have a right to die, instead of being a mindless body in a wheel chair to be carted around? It would be nice if she could make her own mind up, but she's braindead. So why not give the choice to the man she chose to share her life with, her husband, rather than some insane members of the GOP, or worse yet, Sean Hannity?
 

Batman

Active member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
407
Reaction score
7
Location
Fulton, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
anomaly said:
Sometimes relentless optimism is not the best policy. Medical experts have consistent;y said that there is zero chance of her 'waking up'. The husband seems to have been taking care of here well for almost 15 years, isn't it time to give him his freedom from her? And doesn't she have a right to die, instead of being a mindless body in a wheel chair to be carted around? It would be nice if she could make her own mind up, but she's braindead. So why not give the choice to the man she chose to share her life with, her husband, rather than some insane members of the GOP, or worse yet, Sean Hannity?
Bill Frist has spoke to one of the doctor's who says she could make improvement with therapy.

The husband has been offered his 'freedom' from her by the parents and by someone offering him a million dollars to walk away.

I "cart around" mindless bodies in wheelchairs to school everyday. You are an insensitive ass.
 

Hoot

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
1,686
Reaction score
18
Location
State of Confusion
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
craigfarmer said:
while the republicans are fighting to save Terri's life, because all life is valuable and sacred.
Please forgive me if I appear rude, but I got a good laugh out of this line.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying...."(to the republicans) all life is valuable and sacred?"

As far as Teri...let her go.
 
Last edited:

Repubteen

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
56
Reaction score
1
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
craigfarmer said:
As liberals we are always trying to protect the most vulnerable in society
:bs

And yet you guys dont stand up for the un born child ?
 

anomaly

Anti-Capitalist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
1,020
Reaction score
6
Location
IN
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Batman said:
Bill Frist has spoke to one of the doctor's who says she could make improvement with therapy.

The husband has been offered his 'freedom' from her by the parents and by someone offering him a million dollars to walk away.

I "cart around" mindless bodies in wheelchairs to school everyday. You are an insensitive ass.
You cart around brain dead people? If they're brain dead, why are they in school. Do not compare mentally challenged people to brain dead people, or you may deserve your title you so lovingly give me. And what's wrong with the husband's decision to end her misery? Remember, this is the man she gave her life to, as some may say. Since we're calling each other names now, you are an idiot, and an asshole who supports a war, but is outraged at giving a braindead woman the right to die. Hypocrisy is often what we see with those on the right, however, maintaining a publically pro-life stance while also maintaining a pro-war stance.
 

Batman

Active member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
407
Reaction score
7
Location
Fulton, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
anomaly said:
You cart around brain dead people? If they're brain dead, why are they in school. Do not compare mentally challenged people to brain dead people, or you may deserve your title you so lovingly give me. And what's wrong with the husband's decision to end her misery? Remember, this is the man she gave her life to, as some may say. Since we're calling each other names now, you are an idiot, and an asshole who supports a war, but is outraged at giving a braindead woman the right to die. Hypocrisy is often what we see with those on the right, however, maintaining a publically pro-life stance while also maintaining a pro-war stance.
The girl I refer to, cannot feed herself, has no voluntary movement, and cannot communicate. Pretty much the same as Terri. A brain dead person cannot breathe on their own. Bodily functions often do not operate.
Since Terri can do those things - she is not brain dead. She needs no artificial means to sustain life. She must be fed through a tube to get nourishment just like the girl I transport. But since the all knowing "I try so hard to make myself look like an intellectual but can't realize what a buffoon I am" anomaly thinks that's brain dead, I guess we'll have to kill her.

braindead - Irreversible brain damage and loss of brain function, as evidenced by cessation of breathing and other vital reflexes, unresponsiveness to stimuli, absence of muscle activity, and a flat electroencephalogram for a specific length of time.

cessation - A bringing or coming to an end.

Who's the idiot little guy?
 

Batman

Active member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
407
Reaction score
7
Location
Fulton, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
ABCNEWS.COM
March 19, 2005 — House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said that he and other Republican members of Congress would continue to work through the weekend to come up with a bill to force doctors to reinsert Terri Schiavo's feeding tube.

After a heated legal and political battle, the brain-damaged woman's feeding tube was removed Friday afternoon, despite a last-ditch effort by Congress to prevent it.
Brain damaged - NOT BRAINDEAD.
Wow! Even according to ABC NEWS, little guy got it wrong.
 

ShamMol

Only Way Round is Through
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
1,988
Reaction score
10
Location
Pasadena, California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Repubteen said:
:bs

And yet you guys dont stand up for the un born child ?
not a child, it is a fetus until it can conciously think for itself and be viable outside of the womb

She is in a permenant vegatative state. this means she will make little to no improvement and still not be able to speak, still not be able to move coherently, still not be able to realize what is going on around her. That isn't life.

The decision to take someone off life support is a very personal one, one that my family has had to make twice. You realize once a person is gone, they are gone. The decision should not be politicized by Republicans as it has. The Dem senator (can't remember who it was) got it right, it was decided correctly by the courts and the husband made the decision for his wife because he had that right according to the courts (EVERY one that this has gone before)
 

Batman

Active member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
407
Reaction score
7
Location
Fulton, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
ShamMol said:
The decision to take someone off life support is a very personal one
Food and water. A necessity for every living human being - is now defined as 'life support.' :cry:
 

ShamMol

Only Way Round is Through
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
1,988
Reaction score
10
Location
Pasadena, California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Batman said:
Food and water. A necessity for every living human being - is now defined as 'life support.' :cry:
well, in this case, the court, which is the thing that matters, it is life support

and don't f-ing trivialize what i went through. did you ever have to help decide whether a living person dies? have you? Dont trivilize it and realize that it is personal and extremely hard for everyone to do it.
 

Batman

Active member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
407
Reaction score
7
Location
Fulton, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
ShamMol said:
well, in this case, the court, which is the thing that matters, it is life support

and don't f-ing trivialize what i went through. did you ever have to help decide whether a living person dies? have you? Dont trivilize it and realize that it is personal and extremely hard for everyone to do it.
I find it f-ing odd that someone who, according to the courts, is not of legal age, helped 'decide' whether someone lives or dies.
 

anomaly

Anti-Capitalist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
1,020
Reaction score
6
Location
IN
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Batman said:
I find it f-ing odd that someone who, according to the courts, is not of legal age, helped 'decide' whether someone lives or dies.
Why do you on the right believe the husband is doing this then? If it is not because of the woman's own wishes, then why? If he just some evil liberal who is mistaken in his beliefs? It doesn't make any sense! Why are you on the right so willing to save the life of a brain-damaged (severely brain damaged-there you go Batman) woman's life, while at the same time applauding the deaths of so many young people in Iraq (by applauding, I mean supporting a war effort that has killed 1500 young men and women)? This is the hypocrisy of the 'pro-life' position.
 
Top Bottom