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Merkel says German multiculturalism has failed

Demon of Light

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Germany's attempt to create a multicultural society has "utterly failed," Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Saturday, adding fuel to a debate over immigration and Islam polarizing her conservative camp.

Speaking to a meeting of young members of her Christian Democrats (CDU), Merkel said allowing people of different cultural backgrounds to live side by side without integrating had not worked in a country that is home to some four million Muslims.

Source: Reuters

Creating autonomous ethnic enclaves all across a country generally doesn't work. Anyone who has studied history or has a basic understanding of human behavior could tell you that.
 

Cold Highway

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Once again my hatred for Europe and Europeans is justified, Europe created their own problems because they thought that people who immigrated from the East were just going be cheap laborers who would do the simple jobs and then leave. Turns out when the immigrated country is alot better than the nation the said immigrant came from, they tend to stick around. Unfortunately for the immigrant, European societies will always regard them as the other. It also shows that the US as a whole is alot more immigrant friendly than people realize.
 

mikhail

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multiculturalism is a bad doctrine i hate the name for a start as it makes you sound like some kind of racist if you criticise it.The truth is the opposite is true your defining everyone from a certain contry or certain race religion whatever as all being the same.Culture isnt something set in stone it changes and adapts.Americans use to burn witches they dont anymore have they betrayed their culture?
 

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Once again my hatred for Europe and Europeans is justified, Europe created their own problems because they thought that people who immigrated from the East were just going be cheap laborers who would do the simple jobs and then leave. Turns out when the immigrated country is alot better than the nation the said immigrant came from, they tend to stick around. Unfortunately for the immigrant, European societies will always regard them as the other. It also shows that the US as a whole is alot more immigrant friendly than people realize.


I don't see how Merkel's scare tactic to help her keep power in an ever-liberalising Germany is an offense worthy of hatred of all Europeans.

In fact, I can't really think of anything that warrants hatred of all Europeans.

That just sounds like base bigotry to me.
 

mikhail

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Once again my hatred for Europe and Europeans is justified, Europe created their own problems because they thought that people who immigrated from the East were just going be cheap laborers who would do the simple jobs and then leave. Turns out when the immigrated country is alot better than the nation the said immigrant came from, they tend to stick around. Unfortunately for the immigrant, European societies will always regard them as the other. It also shows that the US as a whole is alot more immigrant friendly than people realize.

I dont think anything you have put is untrue however to just hate all europeans is unfair.
 

Cold Highway

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I don't see how Merkel's scare tactic to help her keep power in an ever-liberalising Germany is an offense worthy of hatred of all Europeans.

In fact, I can't really think of anything that warrants hatred of all Europeans.

That just sounds like base bigotry to me.

The amount of bitching Europeans do about their immigration problems that THEY created is only one of many things that warrents my hatred towards them.
 

Le Marteau

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The amount of bitching Europeans do about their immigration problems that THEY created is only one of many things that warrents my hatred towards them.

But the immigration problem that America created for itself and then consitently whines about is of no consequence to you?
 

Cold Highway

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But the immigration problem that America created for itself and then consitently whines about is of no consequence to you?

Ours arent as black and white, Europe treats their immigrants as "the other" and the US (for the most part) does not. Immigration shouldve been at forefront after 9/11 but it was largely ignored until 2006 when the Republicans were going to loose power then it became the wedge issue and has been going back and forth since. Even today the entire issue isnt even addressed, its all just about kicking them out. You rarely hear anti-illegal immigration/legal immigration people mention the issues of the entitlement systems which are unconstitutional. Its just "We dont need more welfare leechs" when in fact the welfare system itself is to blame.
 

Aunt Spiker

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You can't *create* multiculturalism . . . it's not something you can *write* - it is something that happens on it's own - and you either foster it and encourage it to happen more or you make decisions that flush it away.

But I can't really form an opinion, though - because the article goes into such little depth on the entire situation. It mentions what she said but doesn't do much more than that. After reading I'm still knowledgeless on what her actual opinion is - what do they think they've done to try to foster 'multiculturalism' - and how much do they really believe it's important?

According to this:
Merkel faces pressure from within her CDU to take a tougher line on immigrants who don't show a willingness to adapt to German society and her comments appeared intended to pacify her critics. . . . The debate over foreigners in Germany has shifted since former central banker Thilo Sarrazin published a book accusing Muslim immigrants of lowering the intelligence of German society.
it seems that a lot of people don't *want* multiculturalism which leads to it being discouraged and flushed away rather than fostered and encouraged to grow.
 
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Orion

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Multiculturalism works in Canada. I'm not saying there are no problems but :shrug:

It's always cons or neo-cons who say it doesn't work. Germany's problem is that the system is actively shutting out the Muslims (mainly Turks) because the privileged class wants to keep it that way; and who does the privileged class mostly consist of? Conservatives. If you want integration to happen then some must rise to become part of the aristocracy, otherwise they will just become second class citizens. But this isn't just about that... even on a basic work force level, there is systemic prejudice.

Enclaves happen because cultures have to stick together for survival reasons, and that partially happens because the system is not welcoming enough.
 

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Merkel is talking to her party, she is moving to defend her leadership against internal complaints that she isn't right-wing enough.
 
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mikhail

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Multiculturalism works in Canada. I'm not saying there are no problems but :shrug:

It's always cons or neo-cons who say it doesn't work. Germany's problem is that the system is actively shutting out the Muslims (mainly Turks) because the privileged class wants to keep it that way; and who does the privileged class mostly consist of? Conservatives. If you want integration to happen then some must rise to become part of the aristocracy, otherwise they will just become second class citizens. But this isn't just about that... even on a basic work force level, there is systemic prejudice.

Enclaves happen because cultures have to stick together for survival reasons, and that partially happens because the system is not welcoming enough.

You get people in enclaves because multiculturalism puts people in boxes of what culture they belong to.
 
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I'm curious what it means to be German when no two Germans need have anything in common with each other.
 

Grant

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[
QUOTE=Orion;1059044264]Multiculturalism works in Canada. I'm not saying there are no problems but :shrug:

No, it is not working iin Canada, Orion and I'm Canadian also. Unless Canada's policies towards Immigration soon change dramatically, or we fail to stick to the traditional rights we inherited from our forefathers, then we'll have the same problems as Europe. As evidence we can already see curtailments in place regarding free speech, a free press, and assembly.
It's always cons or neo-cons who say it doesn't work.

Or anyone with functioning powers of observation.
Germany's problem is that the system is actively shutting out the Muslims (mainly Turks) because the privileged class wants to keep it that way; and who does the privileged class mostly consist of? Conservatives. If you want integration to happen then some must rise to become part of the aristocracy, otherwise they will just become second class citizens. But this isn't just about that... even on a basic work force level, there is systemic prejudice.

I guess we have them in Canada too, folks.

Enclaves happen because cultures have to stick together for survival reasons, and that partially happens because the system is not welcoming enough.

Democracies have always accepted immigrants but it is part of the immigrants responsibility to adapt somewhat to their host country's culture, traditions and laws. Saying it is all the fault of the hosts is silly. It's wise to follow the "when in Rome" adage or resentments, and worse, tend to follow.
 

Grant

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Merkel is talking to her party, she is moving to defend her leadership against internal complaints that she isn't right-wing enough.

A politician listening to her constituents does appear to make some sense. What would your alternative be?
 

Grant

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You get people in enclaves because multiculturalism puts people in boxes of what culture they belong to.

That's exactly right, Mikhail.

Canadians, as we once knew Canadians and their culture to be, no long exist. We are now hyphenated Canadians, as in French Canadian, Chinese Canadian, and so on. This was the fastest way to destroy the Canadian culture that had previously existed, and which had welcomed peoples of all types from all over the world.

Now Canadians are viewed by politicians, among others, as various ethnic voting blocks and will openly court one against the other. Multicultural means that anything is acceptable, there are no standard or norms, and everything a country once stood for, believed in, and took pride in, crumbles away to nothing as a result.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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That's exactly right, Mikhail.

Canadians, as we once knew Canadians and their culture to be, no long exist. We are now hyphenated Canadians, as in French Canadian, Chinese Canadian, and so on. This was the fastest way to destroy the Canadian culture that had previously existed, and which had welcomed peoples of all types from all over the world.

Now Canadians are viewed by politicians, among others, as various ethnic voting blocks and will openly court one against the other. Multicultural means that anything is acceptable, there are no standard or norms, and everything a country once stood for, believed in, and took pride in, crumbles away to nothing as a result.

Which Canadian culture was that? The one that existed in rural Quebec, or the one that exists in Newfoundland, or perhaps that up north in the NWT. There has never been one Canadian culture, but many cultures, the main thing holding Canada togethe was and is the common set of laws that should apply equally
 

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I don't see how Merkel's scare tactic to help her keep power in an ever-liberalising Germany is an offense worthy of hatred of all Europeans.

In fact, I can't really think of anything that warrants hatred of all Europeans.

That just sounds like base bigotry to me.

You are very confused as to what the term "liberal" means.

Multiculturalism runs counter to liberalism, because it enshrines extremely illiberal practices as sacrosanct. Actual Liberalism is about individual rights, whereas multiculturalism demands that the violations thereof must be overlooked in certain populations as long as such violations are an ingrained aspect of such populations.

Multiculturalism = hypocrisy.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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You are very confused as to what the term "liberal" means.

Multiculturalism runs counter to liberalism, because it enshrines extremely illiberal practices as sacrosanct. Actual Liberalism is about individual rights, whereas multiculturalism demands that the violations thereof must be overlooked in certain populations as long as such violations are an ingrained aspect of such populations.

Multiculturalism = hypocrisy.

Depends on what you mean by multiculturalism


Typically in Canada it means being able to practice any cultural traditions you wish to, provided they do not break the law or the charter of rights. The laws themselves have to be in line with the charter of rights as well.\


So a woman can choose to wear a hijab all she wants, and be within the law, but if her husband forced her to wear it, it would and is illegal. A person can go to temple all they want, or read books in Yiddish, or speak in Yiddish all day long, and it would be fine

It is very liberal to accept people having different cultural practices as long as they still abid by the same set of laws that everyone else does, provided those laws are not discriminatory in nature
 

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A politician listening to her constituents does appear to make some sense. What would your alternative be?

A politician seeking to mollify rightwing activists in a conservative party might appeal to baser instincts, but not to the constituency at large.
 

Gardener

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Depends on what you mean by multiculturalism


Typically in Canada it means being able to practice any cultural traditions you wish to, provided they do not break the law or the charter of rights. The laws themselves have to be in line with the charter of rights as well.\


So a woman can choose to wear a hijab all she wants, and be within the law, but if her husband forced her to wear it, it would and is illegal. A person can go to temple all they want, or read books in Yiddish, or speak in Yiddish all day long, and it would be fine

It is very liberal to accept people having different cultural practices as long as they still abid by the same set of laws that everyone else does, provided those laws are not discriminatory in nature

Actually, the Multiculturalism practiced in Canada is heavily influenced by a fellow by the name of Will Kymlika, who proferred that John Rawls definitive work on the theories of social justice were actually some sort of display of western chauvenism, and that his universalist approach should not apply to the ingrained belief systems of other populations. In the example you gave of husbands forcing women into mummy suits, the LIBERAL viewpoint would be to assail it as an abrogation of individual rights. The multiculturalist approach, however, is to look the other way as long as the woman, herself, has accepted the practice of her own degradation due to the ingraned practice thereof as part and parcel of the culture in which she has been indoctrinated.

Multiculturalism, in this case, is clearly at odds with true liberalism.
 

Grant

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Which Canadian culture was that? The one that existed in rural Quebec, or the one that exists in Newfoundland, or perhaps that up north in the NWT. There has never been one Canadian culture, but many cultures, the main thing holding Canada togethe was and is the common set of laws that should apply equally

These "cultures" were, and are, all characteristics within the Canadian culture. Thus you could speak with a person from Quebec or Newfoundland and still recognize their "Canadianness". Thats true of people within any established nation. If you were to travel to Finland or India you might see some differences but there would be no denying their shared culture in each of these countries.

But what the Canadian government tried to do, and other governments tried the same during similar times, was to ignore Canadianess. In fact one Minister said that Canada had no culture and then sought out ways to destroy it.

Myths of Immigration

You are confusing an overall culture with facets within that culture, and they might be many. But culture necessarily includes a bond among the people of a nation, multiculturalism does not..
 

Grant

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Probably because Germany made little effort to accept them. They were just "guest" workers and cheap labour :roll:

You might have a point if it wasn't for the fact that the same thing is being repeated all over Europe.
 
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