Merkel: multiculturalism has failed

[cpwill]

Attempts to build a multicultural society in Germany have "utterly failed", Chancellor Angela Merkel says.

She said the so-called "multikulti" concept - where people would "live side-by-side" happily - did not work, and immigrants needed to do more to integrate - including learning German.

The comments come amid rising anti-immigration feeling in Germany...

A recent survey suggested more than 30% of people believed the country was "overrun by foreigners"...

There has been intense debate about multiculturalism in Germany in recent months.

Correspondents say Mrs Merkel faces pressure from within her CDU and its allies to take a tougher stance and require immigrants to do more to adapt to German society.

Earlier this week, Horst Seehofer, the leader of the CDU's Bavarian sister party, the CSU, said it was "obvious that immigrants from different cultures like Turkey and Arab countries, all in all, find it harder" to integrate...

The debate first heated up in August when Thilo Sarrazin, a senior official at Germany's central bank, said that "no immigrant group other than Muslims is so strongly connected with claims on the welfare state and crime". Mr Sarrazin has since resigned.

Such recent strong anti-immigration feelings from mainstream politicians come amid an anger in Germany about high unemployment, even if the economy is growing faster than those of its rivals, our correspondent says.

 

[Gardener]

Attempts to build a multicultural society in Germany have "utterly failed", Chancellor Angela Merkel says.

She said the so-called "multikulti" concept - where people would "live side-by-side" happily - did not work, and immigrants needed to do more to integrate - including learning German.

The comments come amid rising anti-immigration feeling in Germany...

A recent survey suggested more than 30% of people believed the country was "overrun by foreigners"...

There has been intense debate about multiculturalism in Germany in recent months.

Correspondents say Mrs Merkel faces pressure from within her CDU and its allies to take a tougher stance and require immigrants to do more to adapt to German society.

Earlier this week, Horst Seehofer, the leader of the CDU's Bavarian sister party, the CSU, said it was "obvious that immigrants from different cultures like Turkey and Arab countries, all in all, find it harder" to integrate...

The debate first heated up in August when Thilo Sarrazin, a senior official at Germany's central bank, said that "no immigrant group other than Muslims is so strongly connected with claims on the welfare state and crime". Mr Sarrazin has since resigned.

Such recent strong anti-immigration feelings from mainstream politicians come amid an anger in Germany about high unemployment, even if the economy is growing faster than those of its rivals, our correspondent says.

Multiculturalism runs counter to liberalism and is little more than an easy excuse for talking out of both sides of one's mouth. If a person has any ideals whatsoever, they should support those ideals for ALL people rather than indulding in all the obvious double standards multiculturalism demands.

How any intelligent person could think multiculturalism is anything but a recipe for conflict is beyond me.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

assimilation is a two way street, the immigrant has to want to assimilate and the people in the country has to allow the person to assimilate. Germany has not done its part in helping immigrants to assimilate. The turks brought in in the 50-60's as cheap labour were not generally allowed to become German citizens, as such the turks had no reason to become " german". If I recall correctly even their childern if born in Germany were not German citizens.

Germany and much of Europe does not view immigrants as being fully "french" or fully "german", which makes it difficult for those who could not pass as being french or german physically to assimilate in the society.

Canada on the other hand, views its immigrants as being Canadian, which is easier for Canada then Germany as we do not have an ethnic identity with being Canadian, which does allow any immigrant to be viewed as being Canadian. This will allow any immigrant to start the assimilation process, some will stick to ethnic enclaves that have always formed in Canada. From Little Italy's to Chinatowns to the various other ethnic enclaves that have formed in Canada even the US over the last 120 years or so.

Canada has always been Multicultural in practice, and the moronic, immoral attempts to enforce a single culture on Canadians resulted in one of the worst periods in Canadian history (Native Canadians and the residential schools)

 

[Manc Skipper]

Reading a little beyond the headline, we find...

"But the headline does not tell the whole story.

She added a softening caveat: "We should not be a country either which gives the impression to the outside world that those who don't speak German immediately or who were not raised speaking German are not welcome here. That would do great damage to our country.

"Companies will go elsewhere because they won't find the people to work here anymore."

In other words, her basic message is that integration has not worked - but it needs to. And immigrants have to accept that, in particular, they need to learn the language."

BBC News - Germany's charged immigration debate

Half-truths and cherrypicking from the right, why are we not surprised?

 

[Ben K.]

Multiculturalism runs counter to liberalism and is little more than an easy excuse for talking out of both sides of one's mouth. If a person has any ideals whatsoever, they should support those ideals for ALL people rather than indulding in all the obvious double standards multiculturalism demands.

How any intelligent person could think multiculturalism is anything but a recipe for conflict is beyond me.

Not sure I agree with that. It's just one of the paradoxes of liberalism. Many cultures can be completely different and cherish the rights of western democracy, hence why Chinese ethnic enclaves are generally not problematic in society. Other cultures may be hostile to the host culture. Tolerance is a paraddoxical liberal ideal too, works most of the time and is essential to liberalism, but runs into problems when considering whether one should tolerate the intolerant.

 

[Tashah]

Half-truths and cherrypicking from the right, why are we not surprised?

Moderator's Warning:

Let's discuss without ramping up the partisanship rhetoric

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

I agree. The truth and sticking to the topic is what counts.

Multiculturalism has failed because people refuse to move out of the 'comfort zone' of their own community, academics have warned.

The study said the Left-wing doctrine had ignored the dangers of religious fundamentalism and should be scrapped


Read more: Why the dogma of multiculturalism has failed Britain | Mail Online

Why the dogma of multiculturalism has failed Britain | Mail Online

A senior Tory has called for a "grown-up" debate on immigration after a race equality campaigner said the pursuit of 'multiculturalism' should be ditched.

BBC NEWS | UK | Politics | Debate call on 'multicultural' UK

This week Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality (CRE), denounced multiculturalism.

spiked-culture | Article | Backlash against multiculturalism?

..Yes, that's THE Trevor Phillips of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission, a body partisan enough for the Taxpayers' Alliance to call for its abolition.

(However, rabid lefties learn no lessons when some of their PC crusader brothers are influenced just a touch by real life: Ken Livingstone says Trevor Phillips so right-wing he could join the BNP! )



Multiculturalism has NOTHING to do with foreigners and ALL to do with noxious Left Wing social engineering.

 

[namvet46]

the Brittles and EU are being out populated. what immigration ??? but they claim the US Empire will collapse first. over population is the Muslim plan for world conquest. its no secret.

Germany Going Islam: link

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Same in Britain. No-Go areas are common in inner-cities (and not just the Islamic variety).

Multiculturalism means traditional cultures being elbowed off the table. The space created by such barging and repression is filled by the over-glorification of the likes of Third World cultures, claiming them to be as British/European as our own. (In some places Christmas and St. George's Day celebrations would be downplayed or cancelled because they would get in the way of the latest foreign fashions.)

Worse, liberal-leftists in the new Establishment enforce their new morality as part of it - such as teaching schoolboys how to have sex, that traditional culture is too racist or supremacist, that the nation and people are 'too white', that criminals are not to be properly punished because they're 'misunderstood', or that everyone but them are car-driving and holiday flight-taking criminals guilty of raping Mother Earth and thus worthy of heavy punishment.





Bishop of Rochester receives death threats for pointing out No-Go threats in Left-Wing Britain!

'Make way for the Muslims', order barmy Liberals who 'cancelled' Christmas, as it interfered with EID celebration!

Never mind the Islamo-mentalists, it's our own loony tunes doing the REAL damage: Shrieking Left Wing fury against schoolgirl who refused to dress as a Muslim on visit to mosque!


Community Cohesion our masters call it! But whose community must be meshed to whose we often wonder!!!!

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Reading a little beyond the headline, we find...

-- "Companies will go elsewhere because they won't find the people to work here anymore."

In other words, her basic message is that integration has not worked - but it needs to. And immigrants have to accept that, in particular, they need to learn the language." --

Pretty straightforward really isn't it? Industry needs skilled labour and if people wish to migrate and work in another country, they need to make an effort to integrate. Germany isn't about to banish or prevent foreign skilled workers moving to Germany to work - unless they are happy to see major companies relocate even faster.

assimilation is a two way street, the immigrant has to want to assimilate and the people in the country has to allow the person to assimilate. Germany has not done its part in helping immigrants to assimilate. The turks brought in in the 50-60's as cheap labour were not generally allowed to become German citizens, as such the turks had no reason to become " german". If I recall correctly even their childern if born in Germany were not German citizens.

Hi, you mention the example of multiculturalism in Canada (I believe the US also has a pretty good track record with assimilating legal immigrants) - do you print information notices for citizens in a range of languages? (Regarding local Govt services / health etc?) Do you have any kind of citizenship test too?

I'm asking because some elements of multiculture here have been consigned to history - examples such as printing documents in a range of languages, providing translators at local Govt cost for immigrants etc.

Germany and much of Europe does not view immigrants as being fully "french" or fully "german", which makes it difficult for those who could not pass as being french or german physically to assimilate in the society.

The French far right has a strange record if I recall, I once saw a program where the local head of the Front Nationale in Marseilles was a black guy of French Guyanan origin. He had abandoned his entire background culture to become "French" and thus was approved.

There is somewhere a middle ground - on one side you have the lunatic fringe calling for all immigrants to be sent home and on the other side you have another lunatic fringe calling for the resident culture to be abandoned or sidelined so that other peoples can feel at home and set up their enclaves and ghettoes.

Integration is a two way process, we are not a liberal democratic or fair society when we make demands that migrants abandon their past to somehow become black or ethnic versions of "little Englanders" or "Little Deutchlanders."

We have benefitted from migrant culture - certainly our music and entertainment industry for one. I'm happy we have rock, blues and popular music as well as - as opposed to having a diet of morris dance, wagner or opera only.

 

[zimmer]

...the people in the country has to allow the person to assimilate.

Not true, especially when you're talking 2nd and later generations. The only thing stopping most 1st generation immigrants (legal or otherwise) from being seen as native, is a noticeable akzent.

.

 

[Gardener]

Not true, especially when you're talking 2nd and later generations. The only thing stopping most 1st generation immigrants (legal or otherwise) from being seen as native, is a noticeable akzent.

.

When I was a kid, one of the families with whom I was closest was Lebanese. When very young, I noticed that the mom spoke with an accent, but the kids didn't, and it didn't even dawn on me that they were any "different" until I was old enough to be more aware of world politics and culture. The same goes with some Chinese friends in that nobody I knew SAW any sort of difference, cared about any sort of difference or made any sort of difference an issue. That is because of our melting pot approach to society.

What the multiculturalists so often fail to understand is that multiculturalism is all about PRESERVING all that which separates people. A melting pot approach does not demand that people just forget about their ethnicity, abandon all of their customs or all act as perfect automatons, but it DOES mean that people will have a basis for commonality. Without that commonality, society can only become balkanized and disintegrate as separate groups remain separate and mutually exclusive by very definition.

As I grew up to know more about my friends, I was fascinated about their families histories. I asked questions, they shared. I knew more about Lebanon as a twelve year old than I would ever have known by reading the papers. I knew more about Chinese culture than I would have known if kept separate. What so many of these dogmatic multiculturalists fail to realize, so busy they are in their witch hunts looking for the politically incorrect, is that the melting pot approach is the very vehicle for eliminating much of the potential bigotry they think they are opposing. By preserving differences, they build a wall between people. By supporting he most regressive elements within a population, they prevent modernization. What these dogmatic people are actually preventing is the very sort of communication and acceptance that can only be brought about when people have that shared basis to begin with.

 

[donsutherland1]

TheBBC article at the beginning of the thread states:

She said the so-called "multikulti" concept - where people would "live side-by-side" happily - did not work, and immigrants needed to do more to integrate - including learning German.

It is incumbent both on the immigrants and the society that they have joined to facilitate a viable integration process. Immigrants should be willing and eager to learn the skills necessary to function effectively in their new country. At the same time, the country needs to provide incentives for successful integration ranging from a “fast track” to citizenship to educational opportunities e.g., language teaching, etc.

At the same time, all parties need to recognize that there is balance between what is essential for the immigrants to function in society vs. immigrants’ cultural heritage that needs to be respected. Approaches that focus on either integration at the sacrifice of most of the immigrants’ cultural heritage or full preservation of immigrants’ cultural heritage at the expense of integration are both extreme and doomed to failure. In the former case, identity issues are so basic that they cannot be overcome. In the latter, ethnic enclaves that are disconnected from the larger society take root. Indeed, the latter approach is not too dissimilar conceptually from the flawed idea that “separate but equal” communities can prosper within a given society. In the end, those two outcomes benefit neither the immigrants nor the larger society.

 

[zimmer]

When I was a kid, one of the families with whom I was closest was Lebanese. When very young, I noticed that the mom spoke with an accent, but the kids didn't, and it didn't even dawn on me that they were any "different" until I was old enough to be more aware of world politics and culture. The same goes with some Chinese friends in that nobody I knew SAW any sort of difference, cared about any sort of difference or made any sort of difference an issue. That is because of our melting pot approach to society.

What the multiculturalists so often fail to understand is that multiculturalism is all about PRESERVING all that which separates people. A melting pot approach does not demand that people just forget about their ethnicity, abandon all of their customs or all act as perfect automatons, but it DOES mean that people will have a basis for commonality. Without that commonality, society can only become balkanized and disintegrate as separate groups remain separate and mutually exclusive by very definition.

As I grew up to know more about my friends, I was fascinated about their families histories. I asked questions, they shared. I knew more about Lebanon as a twelve year old than I would ever have known by reading the papers. I knew more about Chinese culture than I would have known if kept separate. What so many of these dogmatic multiculturalists fail to realize, so busy they are in their witch hunts looking for the politically incorrect, is that the melting pot approach is the very vehicle for eliminating much of the potential bigotry they think they are opposing. By preserving differences, they build a wall between people. By supporting he most regressive elements within a population, they prevent modernization. What these dogmatic people are actually preventing is the very sort of communication and acceptance that can only be brought about when people have that shared basis to begin with.

Hear, hear!
:applaud:applaud:applaud

.

 

[William Rea]

Reading a little beyond the headline, we find...

"But the headline does not tell the whole story.

She added a softening caveat: "We should not be a country either which gives the impression to the outside world that those who don't speak German immediately or who were not raised speaking German are not welcome here. That would do great damage to our country.

"Companies will go elsewhere because they won't find the people to work here anymore."

In other words, her basic message is that integration has not worked - but it needs to. And immigrants have to accept that, in particular, they need to learn the language."

BBC News - Germany's charged immigration debate

Half-truths and cherrypicking from the right, why are we not surprised?

Merkel is in a very difficult position with this one so she had to temper her speech but it is true to say that the concept of the "Guest Worker" hindered Germany's ability to integrate and offer immigrants an incentive to Germanise.

That said, I find that all the Germans, without question, I have ever personally encountered in business or friendship have been some of the most rational and socially based people I ever met. They will overcome this without resorting to a rightward swing. I am sure of that.

 

[Djoop]

The failure of the multikul, or at least the problems it creates are known for what, 20 years or so?! That's why popular polticians hammered on integration in the 90s. The Netherlands (and I think Germany as well) have always been melting pots, tolerant to refugees and different cultures, That's the part that's worth keeping in my view. All we have to do to prevent these problems is stop the mass migration and keep the migration numbers in proportion. We should help/motivate the newcomers to take part in society, instead of segregating into ghetto's where they speak their own language, get their own education and never take part in society because they are considered outcasts. I understand that Merkel has to respond to a new right wing party in Germany, but she's at least 10 years late into an old discussion.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- The only thing stopping most 1st generation immigrants (legal or otherwise) from being seen as native --

-- At the same time, the country needs to provide incentives for successful integration ranging from a fast track; to citizenship to educational opportunities e.g., language teaching, etc--

The country in this case (Germany) did not offer the incentives or the opportunities - hoping that gasstarbeiter would go home once they either were unable to work anymore or had earned enough to go back and build lives in their countries of origin.

 

[kaya'08]

At least somebody admitted it.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Multiculturalism may not have done much good for the Tories either.....

Regardless of party allegiance, a Nigerian in parliament winning purely on merit and not because of her relatives or by buying the election will be amazing.

naijablog: Kemi Adegoke for parliament

..it is mainstream Britain which needs to integrate more with the British Asian way of life, not the other way around.

David Cameron: What I learnt from my stay with a Muslim family | Comment is free | The Observer

Such is easy to say when you find some nice ones of any community to ingratiate into, me old mate Dave.



Tory Leader: Conservatives Will Up Foreign Aid to £14 Billion and Increase Aid to Nuclear Pakistan

LABOUR MIS-LED BY EXAMPLE:

In maths and science, key Muslim contributions such algebra and the number zero will be emphasised to counter Islamophobia.

New curriculum will 'make every lesson politically correct' | Mail Online

(However, the repugnant Islamic propaganda that Muslims invented algebra and the number zero are wicked wicked lies (amongst many others). The Romans understood the number zero and the Babylonians used algebra millenia before. ...But you don't want to buck Multiculturalism by being Iswamophobic and admitting the truth now, do you?)


Multiculturalism, based as it is on dogma and hyperbole, slows down integration and fragments the host society. Having new foreign citizens mix in is way different to imposing a set of competing systems vying for supremacy and takeover.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Not true, especially when you're talking 2nd and later generations. The only thing stopping most 1st generation immigrants (legal or otherwise) from being seen as native, is a noticeable akzent.

.

How many turks look german?

2nd or third generation poles will look and talk like a large number of Germans, and as such be accepted as being German, a 5 th Generation turk who speaks perfect german, and does whatever the average German does will not be seen by some Germans as being German.

In Canada and the US is it different as there is no "ethnic" Canadian or American, especially now as the traditional english ethinic dominance in Canada has decreased. This allows for many different ethnic groups to be seen as being canadian or American to a far larger degree then many different ethnic groups in Europe. Overall Europe is about 50-60 years behind Canada or the US when it comes to visiable minority immigration and the difficulties in having them assimilate, and having society accept the minorities as being part of the country.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- (However, the repugnant Islamic propaganda that Muslims invented algebra and the number zero are wicked wicked lies (amongst many others). The Romans understood the number zero and the Babylonians used algebra millenia before. ...But you don't want to buck Multiculturalism by being Iswamophobic and admitting the truth now, do you?)

Just to be clear that nobody is being a "wevisionist" - could you point out a recognised mathematics source that backs your claim up that the Romans either had a concept for zero or for its use please?

As for algebra - the babylonians were way before Isalm but... from the same area of origin. Anyhow, I seem to remember that Egypt before this (again now a Muslim country) had algebra before the Babylonians.

 

[kaya'08]

How many turks look german?

I wouldn't say they all do, but not many Greeks look German either. Are Greek second or third generations accepted as Germans? Its more of a religious intolerance than a racial one imo.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I wouldn't say they all do, but not many Greeks look German either. Are Greek second or third generations accepted as Germans? Its more of a religious intolerance than a racial one imo.

Are second and third generation Greeks viewed as being German?

 

[kaya'08]

Are second and third generation Greeks viewed as being German?

No idea i was asking you.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Just to be clear that nobody is being a "wevisionist"

Maybe not on this board but certainly where 'education' of children is concerned.

...could you point out a recognised mathematics source that backs your claim up that the Romans either had a concept for zero or for its use please?

No. I can do better than that and give you a link about the Olmecs of Mexico, using representations of the number zero before the birth of Jesus, with a proper number zero used by 357 AD.

Numbers and their Meanings - Crystalinks

Maya numerals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Bad luck Left. Looks like you'll need to pretend your current flavour-of-the-month minority invented something else! As indeed happens when we're told that Muslims invented the windmill, or armour and surgery which was used by the Romans, or makeup which was used by ancient Greeks and Egyptians:


10 Greatest Inventions by Muslims - English pravda.ru

Windmill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , etc. It's easy to Google for the truth.


The world being what it is, there's bound to be something invented by some Muslims somewhere. But it's the Multi-Culti lie machine always giving them credit where it's not deserved which rankles my chains!