• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Men are falling behind in our society.

the makeout hobo

the makeout hobo

Rockin' In The Free World
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
7,102
Reaction score
1,504
Location
Sacramento, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Now this is something that I've been giving a lot of thought to... Our society has been turning into one that favors females over males. It's not happening through any preferential treatment or through the wiles of those evil feminists or any conscious decisions- it's just that our modern knowledge economy and the way our education system are set up just favor female skill sets. Your average male is great at lots of things, and many of these skills we have the advantage of (spatial thinking, navigation, physical labor, assertiveness) were king in preindustrial and industrial times. But women, who are better at networking and multitasking and being patient, now have the advantage and are either outperforming men or are quick on their way to doing so in almost any field you want to name. (I'll ferret out articles or studies for anyone who wants the point proven)
Short story is, women just do better than men now days. Yes, there are still the vestiges of the patriarchy but I'd be surprised if that outlasts Generation X. What can we do to stop boys from falling behind? It's going to happen and it's already happening that women are graduating college at a higher rate than men. If nothing's done we're going to end with a generation of boys growing up feeling marginalized and left behind in a society that isn't suited for them. I really only see this leading to depression and giving up, or anger and violence- neither of which are a good sign.
 
the makeout hobo said:
Now this is something that I've been giving a lot of thought to... Our society has been turning into one that favors females over males. It's not happening through any preferential treatment or through the wiles of those evil feminists or any conscious decisions- it's just that our modern knowledge economy and the way our education system are set up just favor female skill sets. Your average male is great at lots of things, and many of these skills we have the advantage of (spatial thinking, navigation, physical labor, assertiveness) were king in preindustrial and industrial times. But women, who are better at networking and multitasking and being patient, now have the advantage and are either outperforming men or are quick on their way to doing so in almost any field you want to name. (I'll ferret out articles or studies for anyone who wants the point proven)
Short story is, women just do better than men now days. Yes, there are still the vestiges of the patriarchy but I'd be surprised if that outlasts Generation X. What can we do to stop boys from falling behind? It's going to happen and it's already happening that women are graduating college at a higher rate than men. If nothing's done we're going to end with a generation of boys growing up feeling marginalized and left behind in a society that isn't suited for them. I really only see this leading to depression and giving up, or anger and violence- neither of which are a good sign.
Click to expand...

Just something to point out, multitasking is not efficient.
 
Being able to efficiently juggle a variety of different tasks and focuses of attention is a skill that is increasingly important in the modern economy, and is something women do better than men.
 
Just to clarify, I don't mean "iron while talking on the phone and watching TV", I mean "do a variety of different jobs and tasks at the office, all efficiently, often all together in a compressed time span". You might not do any one single task quite as well, but you're be of more value to your company.
 
the makeout hobo said:
Now this is something that I've been giving a lot of thought to... Our society has been turning into one that favors females over males. It's not happening through any preferential treatment or through the wiles of those evil feminists or any conscious decisions- it's just that our modern knowledge economy and the way our education system are set up just favor female skill sets. Your average male is great at lots of things, and many of these skills we have the advantage of (spatial thinking, navigation, physical labor, assertiveness) were king in preindustrial and industrial times. But women, who are better at networking and multitasking and being patient, now have the advantage and are either outperforming men or are quick on their way to doing so in almost any field you want to name. (I'll ferret out articles or studies for anyone who wants the point proven)
Short story is, women just do better than men now days. Yes, there are still the vestiges of the patriarchy but I'd be surprised if that outlasts Generation X. What can we do to stop boys from falling behind? It's going to happen and it's already happening that women are graduating college at a higher rate than men. If nothing's done we're going to end with a generation of boys growing up feeling marginalized and left behind in a society that isn't suited for them. I really only see this leading to depression and giving up, or anger and violence- neither of which are a good sign.
Click to expand...

Men and children first? I can live with that.
 
the makeout hobo said:
Just to clarify, I don't mean "iron while talking on the phone and watching TV", I mean "do a variety of different jobs and tasks at the office, all efficiently, often all together in a compressed time span". You might not do any one single task quite as well, but you're be of more value to your company.
Click to expand...

It really doesn't work.
I know semantics but still.

Multitasking Doesn't Work | Information overload and why multitasking doesn't work - Los Angeles Times
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Nah, but I think some things seen as a positive, aren't actually a positive.
One would be multitasking.
Click to expand...

Either way, and maybe I have the root causes wrong, but women are outperforming men at the modern knowledge economy. A man will quite often be a better factory worker (perhaps one reason politicians always talk about trying to bring those blue collar jobs back), and better at engineering or jobs that require craft skills, but studies and statistics are showing that women are better at the kind of work people do nowdays.
 
the makeout hobo said:
Either way, and maybe I have the root causes wrong, but women are outperforming men at the modern knowledge economy. A man will quite often be a better factory worker (perhaps one reason politicians always talk about trying to bring those blue collar jobs back), and better at engineering or jobs that require craft skills, but studies and statistics are showing that women are better at the kind of work people do nowdays.
Click to expand...

While I'm sure things are changing, I'm not sure I agree that women are necessarily better.
Some things seem to be more suited for women, but that doesn't necessarily make them better at it.
It's hard to explain.

Just from observation, women seem more adept at handling institutionalized things, like formal schooling.
Attendance and drop out rates sorta correlate with this.
 
What can we do to "fix" this? Very simple.... stop providing the disincentives to males for being prototypical Men by returning society to its proper boundaries and borders. We can move back towards the traditional nuclear family and away from the affirmative action, anti-values type of society that is so prevailant these days.
 
Here's something interesting.
I think this can be attributed to the problems of men falling behind, at least in some parts of education.

Why Women Read More Than Men : NPR

In school, k-12, nearly all the assigned reading materials are for fiction.
I personally hated reading fiction and thought it sucked greatly.
When we went to the school library, I'd hunt down a non fiction, even if the assignment was for fiction.
Which is almost always was.
 
What you're referring to is based on statistical data since the recession began in 2007/08 - it's not an accurate 'base line' to draw from and sometimes statistics are such a small 'picture' of an issue they could be considered completely misleading.

Because of this downturn: men should stop relying on menial wage, labor-based jobs for adequate income. I think that's where we're seeing significant issues - men suffer a higher rate of unemployment because manufactoring, production and harvesting cuts in those related industries. Women don't aspire to be mechanics and plumbers - thus - they have more recession resistant career paths. Not to say they're untouched, though.

And women also are more likely to graduate highschool and college. I don't know what goes on in the life and mind of a teen boy - but it's usually not education-first. And in this way - many men tend to get degrees in those industries that hit rock-bottom. Over the decades I've seen an increase in the positives towards 'smart women' and a lagging increase towards the 'smart male' - I honestly think some guys look at studying, reading and overall education as being 'nerdy' and not 'masculine' . . . thus: many men just don't put theirself to it when it's necessary.

The further up the economic-earnings ladder you go: the less this is evident - and at the top: there are more male CEOs and Executives, still.

So - want your sons to be successful in life? Teach them the value of education, how ot study and do well in school, and that they don't have to settle for being a wrench monkey - and sometimes just because you want to do something doesn't mean it's a good, solid career path.

Women have a lot to prove - there's still a strong factor in society that pushes women to be stay at home moms and so on . . . in order to avoid this lot in life: you have to have a good, strong solid career under you. The default in this type of family-life is the woman stays home - man works . . . women have to work a lot harder to flip this around and have her husband stay home instead.
 
Last edited:
Aunt Spiker said:
What you're referring to is based on statistical data since the recession began in 2007/08 - it's not an accurate 'base line' to draw from and sometimes statistics are such a small 'picture' of an issue they could be considered completely misleading.

Because of this downturn: men should stop relying on menial wage, labor-based jobs for adequate income. I think that's where we're seeing significant issues - men suffer a higher rate of unemployment because manufactoring, production and harvesting cuts in those related industries. Women don't aspire to be mechanics and plumbers - thus - they have more recession resistant career paths. Not to say they're untouched, though.

And women also are more likely to graduate highschool and college. I don't know what goes on in the life and mind of a teen boy - but it's usually not education-first. And in this way - many men tend to get degrees in those industries that hit rock-bottom. Over the decades I've seen an increase in the positives towards 'smart women' and a lagging increase towards the 'smart male' - I honestly think some guys look at studying, reading and overall education as being 'nerdy' and not 'masculine' . . . thus: many men just don't put theirself to it when it's necessary.

The further up the economic-earnings ladder you go: the less this is evident - and at the top: there are more male CEOs and Executives, still.

So - want your sons to be successful in life? Teach them the value of education, how ot study and do well in school, and that they don't have to settle for being a wrench monkey - and sometimes just because you want to do something doesn't mean it's a good, solid career path.

Women have a lot to prove - there's still a strong factor in society that pushes women to be stay at home moms and so on . . . in order to avoid this lot in life: you have to have a good, strong solid career under you.
Click to expand...

Actually, what I've been finding out with this short session in reading, is that the education sector is designed more to the benefit of girls than boys.
It's not that boys don't value education, it's that they don't process information in the same way as girls.

Interesting stuff.
Supports the idea of separate gender education.

How Boys and Girls Learn Differently | Reader's Digest
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Here's something interesting. I think this can be attributed to the problems of men falling behind, at least in some parts of education.
Click to expand...

I think the article points out some things that are important to this discussion. Women tend to be more adaptable and better in dealing with a changing world around them. Men on the other hand tend to be better in situations where things are known and pre-determined. Guys just aren't generally as adaptable. We're set in our ways. We expect things to be a certain way and when they aren't, we often have trouble dealing with them. We're more about answers than emotions. The new society is not based on set rules or traditions, it's based on feelings and emotions. That puts Men at a significant disadvantage.
 
Tigger said:
I think the article points out some things that are important to this discussion. Women tend to be more adaptable and better in dealing with a changing world around them. Men on the other hand tend to be better in situations where things are known and pre-determined. Guys just aren't generally as adaptable. We're set in our ways. We expect things to be a certain way and when they aren't, we often have trouble dealing with them. We're more about answers than emotions. The new society is not based on set rules or traditions, it's based on feelings and emotions. That puts Men at a significant disadvantage.
Click to expand...

I disagree.
Men typically make a lot of the changes in society (at least when it comes to technology).
To me it's that we've been inundated that boys and girls are the same, must learn the same way, else one may be slighted.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Actually, what I've been finding out with this short session in reading, is that the education sector is designed more to the benefit of girls than boys.
It's not that boys don't value education, it's that they don't process information in the same way as girls.

Interesting stuff.
Supports the idea of separate gender education.

How Boys and Girls Learn Differently | Reader's Digest
Click to expand...

Yeah - they could divide the genders up and have better success in some areas, I agree. My kids don't seem to be suffering from a coed learning environment, though (3 males - 1 female). . .but does it *favor* female development how it currently is? The things mentioned that females atune to: warmer rooms, circular desk arrangement, standing teacher, textures and warm colors.

Is this the only thing present in our classroom environments?

And this seems ot suggests that it favored the male-learning and ignored the female-learning in the past . . . and I don't think that's true, either. what was true in the past was a disfavor - socially - of girls being educated and employable.

I think our teaching environment - everything from poor time management, inadequate cirriculuum, and a lack of engaging activities - overall it's just inadequate.
 
Last edited:
Aunt Spiker said:
Yeah - they could divide the genders up and have better success in some areas, I agree. My kids don't seem to be suffering from a coed learning environment, though (3 males - 1 female). . .but does it *favor* female development how it currently is? The things mentioned that females atune to: warmer rooms, circular desk arrangement, standing teacher, textures and warm colors.

Is this the only thing present in our classroom environments?

And this seems ot suggests that it favored the male-learning and ignored the female-learning in the past . . . and I don't think that's true, either. what was true in the past was a disfavor - socially - of girls being educated and employable.

I think our teaching environment - everything from poor time management, inadequate cirriculuum, and a lack of engaging activities - overall it's just inadequate.
Click to expand...

Another thing I was reading says that since boys have lower serotonin levels and high metabolisms, that they need to move more often.
(I don't know how true that is or not.)

Assuming it is true, I think the environment is poor from day 1.
Because 90% of the time, the child is supposed to remain seated.
 
jambalaya said:
The way the article reads he is basically instructing us on how to multitask more efficiently. I think that he is saying multitasking CAN be inefficient not that it is not a good skill to have.
Click to expand...

I kind of read it like, work on one subject at a time.
Then proceed to the next subject, which I guess could be a type of multitasking.

I always think the general idea of multitasking is, handling several different things at nearly the same time.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I disagree. Men typically make a lot of the changes in society (at least when it comes to technology). To me it's that we've been inundated that boys and girls are the same, must learn the same way, else one may be slighted.
Click to expand...

Changes to society are not made by the AVERAGE person (male or female). Look at the average guy or gal, not the ones at either extreme. The average guy is going to tend to be better with the logic driven items whereas the woman will tend to be better with the emotional or creative types of things. Since our society no longer has hard and fast RULES for anything, guys are tending to fall behind.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Another thing I was reading says that since boys have lower serotonin levels and high metabolisms, that they need to move more often.
(I don't know how true that is or not.)

Assuming it is true, I think the environment is poor from day 1.
Because 90% of the time, the child is supposed to remain seated.
Click to expand...

No - kids are constantly active. . . how often they're active might change in different school districts - but my kids are always on the go and this lessens only as they grow older.

This article addresses anotehr approach: using exercise balls as seats to enable students to 'dissipate' their physical energy while in the classroom
Exercise balls in kids' classrooms are used for learning, not fun - Chicago Tribune
 
Aunt Spiker said:
No - kids are constantly active. . . how often they're active might change in different school districts - but my kids are always on the go and this lessens only as they grow older.

This article addresses anotehr approach: using exercise balls as seats to enable students to 'dissipate' their physical energy while in the classroom
Exercise balls in kids' classrooms are used for learning, not fun - Chicago Tribune
Click to expand...

Well honestly, anything is better than, "sit straight, face forward, no talking, no fidgeting."

I think we're still stuck in antiquated times, in terms of educating any child.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom