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Men and women do not have equitable parental options

Celebrity

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Pregnant women, or just any women are a hot topic in modern politics. We love to discuss women, how stereotypes affect them and what we must do to accommodate them. When we talk about men's rights, we risk being accused of misogyny or we are told that we didn't care about men's rights until feminism came into the picture. How does this affect parental rights? Well, men are typically seen as the "breadwinners." Today that is not the case, but the excuse of gender bias rings true in legal settings and extralegal settings alike.

Men retain custody in cases that go to trial less often than do women. That means that women are more likely to get custody than men, in alignment with their traditional gender roles. Some women want men-at-large to start participating in home activities more, thereby advancing women's role in the home to include tasks other than menial chores, like scrubbing, dusting and accounting. But when it comes to parental rights, women-at-large seem to want to be primary caregivers. Not only do women want to share time with their children, women are willing to accept a situation in which there is an exchange of money for services eight times as often as men.

Now, we can accuse men of not "stepping up," or we can recognize the inherent bias that exists in the system which threatens and disenfranchises men. The reason why there are fewer men who have custody of their children is not because there is "something wrong with men," but because there is something very wrong with the process by which men are forced through the legal system. We can see that the census data has changed very little, and very slowly. The number of women with custody has slightly decreased, and the number of men with custody has slightly increased over the past two decades (there was a net decrease over the past decade).

Part of the reason why I believe there is a problem with the system is that men do not have a choice in the matter, as women often do. We see from the 2013 census data under row "Average child support due," that women on average are due less child support than are men. Now, I do not think it is likely that adoptive families play a significant role in this, however the data on men who receive child support is based on a substantially lesser number of men, and is therefore less robust. It's possible that same sex couples play a role in that figure, hence, men who pay child support to men. Therefore my next statement should be taken with a grain of salt, wealthy women have the option to choose to pay child support instead of having custody and instead of having an abortion.

Why do men not have the same amount of choice, or the same amount of parental options? It seems that women are being given priority in family court, yet women who argue for equal pay do not expect this to change, nor will these feminists make any concessions even though they expect women to "advance in the home."
 

trouble13

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Pregnant women, or just any women are a hot topic in modern politics. We love to discuss women, how stereotypes affect them and what we must do to accommodate them. When we talk about men's rights, we risk being accused of misogyny or we are told that we didn't care about men's rights until feminism came into the picture. How does this affect parental rights? Well, men are typically seen as the "breadwinners." Today that is not the case, but the excuse of gender bias rings true in legal settings and extralegal settings alike.

Men retain custody in cases that go to trial less often than do women. That means that women are more likely to get custody than men, in alignment with their traditional gender roles. Some women want men-at-large to start participating in home activities more, thereby advancing women's role in the home to include tasks other than menial chores, like scrubbing, dusting and accounting. But when it comes to parental rights, women-at-large seem to want to be primary caregivers. Not only do women want to share time with their children, women are willing to accept a situation in which there is an exchange of money for services eight times as often as men.

Now, we can accuse men of not "stepping up," or we can recognize the inherent bias that exists in the system which threatens and disenfranchises men. The reason why there are fewer men who have custody of their children is not because there is "something wrong with men," but because there is something very wrong with the process by which men are forced through the legal system. We can see that the census data has changed very little, and very slowly. The number of women with custody has slightly decreased, and the number of men with custody has slightly increased over the past two decades (there was a net decrease over the past decade).

Part of the reason why I believe there is a problem with the system is that men do not have a choice in the matter, as women often do. We see from the 2013 census data under row "Average child support due," that women on average are due less child support than are men. Now, I do not think it is likely that adoptive families play a significant role in this, however the data on men who receive child support is based on a substantially lesser number of men, and is therefore less robust. It's possible that same sex couples play a role in that figure, hence, men who pay child support to men. Therefore my next statement should be taken with a grain of salt, wealthy women have the option to choose to pay child support instead of having custody and instead of having an abortion.

Why do men not have the same amount of choice, or the same amount of parental options? It seems that women are being given priority in family court, yet women who argue for equal pay do not expect this to change, nor will these feminists make any concessions even though they expect women to "advance in the home."
I find that men who try to fight their way into the home are often mocked and attacked in reward for their efforts.

Women are receptive to men doing the tasks inside the home that women find undesirable to do themselves and men are often praised like a dog for doing them. You get a pat on the head and told your a good boy.

But when it comes to men taking a leadership role inside the home women turn very nasty.

I already mentioned how objectionable women are toward their home being decorated in the mans tastes but since you are making this thread centric to parenting i will limit my gender bias observations to how it pertains to parenting.

Women have no objection to the man taking the children clothes shopping or for a haircut provided they return with clothes and hairstyle that she approves of.

In circumstances of seperated parents women do very little to accomidate and provide opprotunities for men to have a relationship with his kids. Many times they hold the ability to have a relationship with his children hostage. They make his opprotinities conditional on him acquiescing to her demands. It is often rooted in vindictiviness.

Women seem to think they are entitled to crap all over men and men should happily accept this dicotomy as if its fair. Like we somehow deserve the abuse because she said so.

No thanks to all that jazz.

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Dragonfly

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err merr gerd..... white men are so oppressed ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


it's not fair................................................ the po' po' white man....................................aggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh






:roll:


jesus....are you related to Gathomas by any chance?
 

Bodi

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err merr gerd..... white men are so oppressed ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


it's not fair................................................ the po' po' white man....................................aggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh






:roll:


jesus....are you related to Gathomas by any chance?

Straw Man and Ad Hom.



The only one I see getting mad is you... Perhaps you should instead counter their points with logical refutations?
 

Winchester

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The only one I see getting mad is you... Perhaps you should instead counter their points with logical refutations?

To be fair the post came across a little whiney.
 

Bodi

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Women seem to think they are entitled to crap all over men and men should happily accept this dicotomy as if its fair. Like we somehow deserve the abuse because she said so.

This is often the case and was the case with my ex. I am helping a few men right now that were blindsided by their ex-wives. These two women, not happy with their man who worked hard, provided, are great fathers and love their wives were treated worse and worse by their wives until the women eventually cheated on their husbands, justifying this action in that they were not happy. After the women divorced their husbands each attempted to relocate from the father with their children to live with the new cheat partner in another city, 5 hours away. The women are in the process of taking the men to Court to gain this right. They treat the man with open hostility now as well, acting with vile contempt at the once loving man who is now supposedly ruining her life. It is disgusting behaviour and the women openly act this way in front of their children as well.

I know that every situation is different and this lady bugs the crap out of me a bunch but she wrote a great GREAT ****ing book called "the Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" and talks about this on her show as well. Dr Laura Schlessinger. She challenges women who dump on their man. Who treat him with unfair expectations. Etc. Her book is like she watched my marriage for years, in fact, as well as many other men.
 

Bodi

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To be fair the post came across a little whiney.

Maybe, but she still did not counter anything... she was just mean for no reason, unless she feels guilty about something.
 

Celebrity

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Women who constantly try to leverage their assets find that the real glass ceiling is equality itself. In an (ideally) equitable relationship such as marriage, this can be especially challenging for women who feel smothered. They might describe their partner as "overbearing" or "insensitive." The same is true for men, but I think that men more readily make small personal sacrifices, and women grudgingly make what appear to be large sacrifices. Although this thread is not about marriage, I think it's fitting to discuss how birth is leveraged by married couples. Married women who do not expect anything in exchange for birthing a child may feel cheated if they don't get what they want out of a relationship which leaves them physically torn and socially sidetracked.

When we talk about equitable parenting, or equitable parental roles, it's not a matter of inflicting an equal amount of pain on the other party. I think that the same people who expect care in proportion to the level of their pain they have experienced are the same people who dwell on pain. They might posture themselves as caregivers, or homemakers. So, it comes as a surprise when they work as hard as they can to achieve their vision of perfect harmony, and fail. Why do we blame the nearest person, or our friends or family? It is convenient, but not an investment in the same sense as buying someone a gift. Yes, going through a rough patch may be a normal part of a relationship. However, a critical failure such as divorce should not be cause for men and women to act as "gatekeepers," in order to deny a former sexual partner the social dignity of forming relationships with their children.

As a footnote, I think it's important for people to seek out partners of equal stature. The obvious reason is that if a married individual feels that they are doing more than their fair share, it will not be possible to force their partner to do more work if their partner is not capable of doing work. Case in point: I don't want you to do the dishes anyway, when you do them they still have food on them, which is why the drying rack has that weird crust on it. If a woman can't do it, she can get a man to do it for her, but that doesn't mean that she's entitled to exclusive parental rights, simply because men are busy washing dishes.
 

minnie616

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Women who constantly try to leverage their assets find that the real glass ceiling is equality itself. In an (ideally) equitable relationship such as marriage...

As a footnote, I think it's important for people to seek out partners of equal stature. The obvious reason is that if a married individual feels that they are doing more than their fair share, it will not be possible to force their partner to do more work if their partner is not capable of doing work. Case in point: I don't want you to do the dishes anyway, when you do them they still have food on them, which is why the drying rack has that weird crust on it. If a woman can't do it, she can get a man to do it for her, but that doesn't mean that she's entitled to exclusive parental rights, simply because men are busy washing dishes.

I think the fact that many people (especially the under 40 crowd today) think marriage should be 50-50 is one the main reasons so many marriages are falling apart.

My hubby and I have been happily married over 40 years.
Yes, there were a couple of rough spots but we worked through them.
Our marriage means a lot to us and any meaningful relationship means work along with pleasure and good times.

My husband and I have a 90-90 relationship.

We both work hard keeping the house in order and in taking pleasure in doing some activities together but giving the other the space and time to do things they like to do.

That also applies to child rearing too , when the children were young.

If I know something is import and to him , I support him 90 percent of the time
If he knows something is important to me , he supports me 90 percent of the time.

The 10 percent of the time ( actually, usually much less than that ) we have conflicts we will talk about it and work it out.
 
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Celebrity

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I think the fact that many people (especially the under 40 crowd today) think marriage should be 50-50 is one the main reasons so many marriages are falling apart.

My hubby and I have been happily married over 40 years.
Yes, there were a couple of rough spots but we worked through them.
Our marriage means a lot to us and any meaningful relationship means work along with pleasure and good times.

My husband and I have a 90-90 relationship.

We both work hard keeping the house in order and in taking pleasure in doing some activities together but giving the other the space and time to do things they like to do.

That also applies to child rearing too , when the children were young.

If I know something is import and to him , I support him 90 percent of the time
If he knows something is important to me , he supports me 90 percent of the time.

The 10 percent of the time ( actually, usually much less than that ) we have conflicts we will talk about it and work it out.

Minnie, that's why I included the footnote. I think it was very clear that I was not suggesting that marriage need be a bargaining chip, just that it should be equitable. I didn't say 50 - 50 because I didn't mean 50 - 50. 110% - 110% is still equitable.

So, support 90% of the time doesn't mean "more equal," however it does not mean that you should demand more support. Both you and your husband should ideally provide support 90% of the time, yet sometimes that doesn't happen.

For couples with irreconcilable differences, this is much more common. I don't think you or your husband will have any problems if you both independently provide the same amount of support to one another.
 
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Straw Man and Ad Hom.



The only one I see getting mad is you... Perhaps you should instead counter their points with logical refutations?

you think that is representative of anger?

nah, bad call

you seem to be handing out a lot of advice to some of us lately Anne Landers...;)

maybe you should stick to the points
 

Bodi

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you think that is representative of anger?

nah, bad call

you seem to be handing out a lot of advice to some of us lately Anne Landers...;)

maybe you should stick to the points

Insanity then...? That post has .special. written all over it. The type of special that gets doctors called. Now... care to address the point for a change?
 

_Sal

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Insanity then...? That post has .special. written all over it. The type of special that gets doctors called. Now... care to address the point for a change?

with you?

absolutely not, you have issues

I am enjoying the analysis and conclusions I am reaching though

play on buddy

and I'll search my soul :lol:
 

Bodi

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with you?

absolutely not, you have issues

I am enjoying the analysis and conclusions I am reaching though

play on buddy

and I'll search my soul :lol:

You wont address the point? Why are you even responding then?
 

trouble13

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You wont address the point? Why are you even responding then?
That seems to be a general theme by the opposition on this topic. Theres no reasoned debate to explain why the disparity is a judtifiable one.

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Bodi

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That seems to be a general theme by the opposition on this topic. Theres no reasoned debate to explain why the disparity is a judtifiable one.

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I am finding the blatant dishonesty and refusal to be reasonablr or polite worse on this subject than just about any other... ever.
 

Henrin

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To be fair the post came across a little whiney.

You mean like how women whined about abortion being illegal until they got the SC to change the law? I wonder if this forum section would even exist if women didn't whine about abortion all those decades ago.
 

Henrin

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Maybe, but she still did not counter anything... she was just mean for no reason, unless she feels guilty about something.

Dragonfly is a guy.
 

Henrin

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not to mention it's the third or fourth one

on the other hand

at least he is thematically consistent :mrgreen:

The lesson to be learned here is that women can complain about abortion being illegal from the 19th century all the way until the early 1970's, but men can't complain about child support three or four times.
 

Henrin

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okay

thanks for the summation :thumbs:

No thank you for saying men can't complain about something three or four times. So tell me, how many times are men allowed to complain about something?
 

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No thank you for saying men can't complain about something three or four times. So tell me, how many times are men allowed to complain about something?

I couldn't care less about how many times anyone complains about anything

whiners gonna whine

doers gonna do

responsible people gonna be responsible

losers are still losers...let them complain and wallow in their self pity :shrug:
 

trouble13

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No thank you for saying men can't complain about something three or four times. So tell me, how many times are men allowed to complain about something?
The misadrists will tell you never.

Whatever it is we are complaining about they are convinced we deserve and its unmanly not to happily accept our punishment.

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