Medicare For All is fasted way to fix healthcare.

[OlNate]

The United States isn't Canada... Nor should it be...

Nor can it be... But don't put forward the notion that universal healthcare cannot be paid for by the richest, most powerful country in the world. You've simply given healing people less priority than killing people and making money. Own that, don't make excuses.

 

[Hedgology]

Nor can it be...

Correct. Our economy is way too large, advanced and sophisticated to ever do anything insignificant that Canada has ever attmpted in history.

But don't put forward the notion that universal healthcare cannot be paid for by the richest, most powerful country in the world. You've simply given healing people less priority than killing people and making money. Own that, don't make excuses.

Medicare for All is projected to cost more than $32.6 Trillion over 10 years. If we confiscated all the wealth from everyone on the Forbes list, we wouldn't even cover 10% of the Federal Deficit.

I don't even care if you want socialized medicine, but it's time to face facts: you're not going to pay for it with a more progressive tax structure. The only way to do it is with a more regressive tax structure. This means raising taxes on the poor and middle class.

 

[James972]

Nor can it be... But don't put forward the notion that universal healthcare cannot be paid for by the richest, most powerful country in the world. You've simply given healing people less priority than killing people and making money. Own that, don't make excuses.

being richest doesn't help if you waste all the money. We have Democrats handling and wasting $7000 per person per year now on health care. Empower them further with universal authority and maybe the number jumps to $15,000 per person, enough to cause lots and lots more poverty. USSR and Red China were rich but govt wasted so much 120 million slowly starved to death. Do you understand?

 

[James972]

Medicare for All is projected to cost more than $32.6 Trillion over 10 years..

so what?? that also exactly projected cost of the current system!!

 

[OlNate]

Correct. Our economy is way too large, advanced and sophisticated to ever do anything insignificant that Canada has ever attmpted in history.



Medicare for All is projected to cost more than $32.6 Trillion over 10 years. If we confiscated all the wealth from everyone on the Forbes list, we wouldn't even cover 10% of the Federal Deficit.

I don't even care if you want socialized medicine, but it's time to face facts: you're not going to pay for it with a more progressive tax structure. The only way to do it is with a more regressive tax structure. This means raising taxes on the poor and middle class.

lmao...well, we insignificant Canadians have universal health care, while tens of millions of your citizens are at risk because they don't have health insurance of any kind.

How you like living in the 3rd world, anyway? :lol:

I jest, of course. Though I am left scratching my head how little old us figured it out, and you guys can't. I expect is has more to do with what I said than what you said.

 

[OlNate]

being richest doesn't help if you waste all the money. We have Democrats handling and wasting $7000 per person per year now on health care. Empower them further with universal authority and maybe the number jumps to $15,000 per person, enough to cause lots and lots more poverty. USSR and Red China were rich but govt wasted so much 120 million slowly starved to death. Do you understand?

Not really, you're all over the place. How did we get onto USSR and China starving people to death?

I think political parties on both sides have allowed the cost of health care in America to balloon to ridiculous levels, if that helps...?

Sorry, I'd rather just chat than try to decipher rants...

 

[James972]

It's easy, actually... Stop trying to take over the world, cut back your military significantly, and you'll have oodles of money. Worked for Canada...

You could cut back the military 50% to save $300 billion and year to pay for only 10% of yearly healthcare which would not make a dent, but then the world would have no policeman. Ever seen a world or city without a police force?

 

[James972]

Not really, you're all over the place. How did we get onto USSR and China starving people to death?
.

our liberals loved USSR and spied for it because they had universal health care and universal everything. Every one starved to death. We have close to univeral health care now and it is most badly managed industry we have by far. Imagine if liberals ran more?? Do you understand?

 

[James972]

I think political parties on both sides have allowed the cost of health care in America to balloon to ridiculous levels, if that helps...?
.

totally naive and ignorant. Only liberals have supported more and more soviet control of our healthcare and so the levels of waste and inefficiency are at liberal soviet levels. Do you understand?

 

[James972]

Sorry, I'd rather just chat than try to decipher rants...

if there is something you do't understand tell us what it is and I"ll explain it to you.

 

[OlNate]

totally naive and ignorant. Only liberals have supported more and more soviet control of our healthcare and so the levels of waste and inefficiency are at liberal soviet levels. Do you understand?

No...I don't. Soviet control of your healthcare? Liberal soviets?

I mean, it sounds cool...but no, I don't understand.

 

[OlNate]

our liberals loved USSR and spied for it because they had universal health care and universal everything. Every one starved to death. We have close to univeral health care now and it is most badly managed industry we have by far. Imagine if liberals ran more?? Do you understand?

Everyone starved to death? That's can't be right, Russia has a population of 144 million. You sure about that?

 

[Hedgology]

so what?? that also exactly projected cost of the current system!!

Um, no. Basic math shows why you're wrong. Total health care spending in the US was $3.5 Trillion in 2017; ten years ago, total U.S. Health Care spending was $2.3 Trillion. That is a 10-Year CAGR of 4.8%.

That means that if Health Care spending grew at a rate of 4.8% every year, forever, total U.S. health care spending would reach $32.1 Trillion by 2064.

This is the part where I get to the math you probably understand: From 2019 -> 2064 is not 10 years. If will be if we implemented Medicare for all.

 

[James972]

Though I am left scratching my head how little old us figured it out, and you guys can't.

you didn't figure it out you just copied Europe and they copied us since we invented the health care you deliver to your citizens. If USA had socialism medical care would be 100 years behind. Do you see innovative products coming out of Europe? Now you know why. 70% of recent medical patents are held by American capitalist system.

 

[OlNate]

you didn't figure it out you just copied Europe and they copied us since we invented the health care you deliver to your citizens. If USA had socialism medical care would be 100 years behind. Do you see innovative products coming out of Europe? Now you know why. 70% of recent medical patents are held by American capitalist system.

Are you able to provide any credible sources to back that assertion up? I'm not doubting American innovations...just curious to see some sort of break out. I assume, given the strength of your assertion, that you can put your hands on some easily?

 

[James972]

Um, no. Basic math shows why you're wrong. Total health care spending in the US was $3.5 Trillion in 2017; ten years ago, total U.S. Health Care spending was $2.3 Trillion. That is a 10-Year CAGR of 4.8%.

That means that if Health Care spending grew at a rate of 4.8% every year, forever, total U.S. health care spending would reach $32.1 Trillion by 2064.

This is the part where I get to the math you probably understand: From 2019 -> 2064 is not 10 years. If will be if we implemented Medicare for all.

so what? future is a wild guess. We spend $3 trillion now and universal is projected to cost $3trillion. therefore paying for universal is not the problem. Do you understand?

 

[Hedgology]

lmao...well, we insignificant Canadians have universal health care, while tens of millions of your citizens are at risk because they don't have health insurance of any kind.

Canada has a population of $36 million, smaller than our two largest states. Canada has an economy that is barely larger than the market cap of our two largest MNC.

How do we get the style of cost effective Canadian Style health care with those factors?

How you like living in the 3rd world, anyway? :lol:

I jest, of course. Though I am left scratching my head how little old us figured it out, and you guys can't. I expect is has more to do with what I said than what you said.

We've already figured it out. Economist (one particular economist named Peter H. Lindert) has researched social welfare states for generations and has found that what all these welfare states have in common is that they fund their welfare states by structuring regressive taxes that is efficient at collecting tax revenue, without inhibiting economic growth.

As mentioned before, this means increasing taxes on the poor and middle class, not so much the wealth. It's more politically popular to increase taxes on the wealth. It's ineffective, but it's popular.

 

[Hedgology]

so what? future is a wild guess. We spend $3 trillion now and universal is projected to cost $3trillion. therefore paying for universal is not the problem. Do you understand?

No, it is unclear how you are projecting only $3 Trillion for Universal Health care.

 

[James972]

No, it is unclear how you are projecting only $3 Trillion for Universal Health care.

3 trillion is what we pay now. universal should be 1/3 the cost at $1 trillion a year

 

[James972]

As mentioned before, this means increasing taxes on the poor and middle class,

who cares with universal everyone would pay 2/3 less to pay for health care

 

[Hedgology]

who cares with universal everyone would pay 2/3 less to pay for health care

Exactly. Once everyone is okay with increasing their taxes, I don't think we will have any issue with having universal health care.

 

[Hedgology]

3 trillion is what we pay now. universal should be 1/3 the cost at $1 trillion a year

How are you arriving at that figure?

 

[James972]

How are you arriving at that figure?

Europe pays about 1/3 what we pay, obviously!!!!

 

[James972]

Exactly. Once everyone is okay with increasing their taxes, I don't think we will have any issue with having universal health care.

it would decrease taxes and expenses since universal would be 1/3 the cost.

 

[Hedgology]

Europe pays about 1/3 what we pay, obviously!!!!

Africa, South America and Asia also pays less. You're not saying anything that makes sense.