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Medical mistakes kill over 200K a year

TurtleDude

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based on a local report on our nightly news. Only heart disease and cancer kill more. 30 times more than all firearms homicides combined. Yet many of the biggest advocates for gun bans are liberal doctors.

Heal thyself doctor before claiming guns
 

digsbe

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The medical system is pretty screwed. I'm biased but I honestly think medication related deaths and poor outcomes could be fixed with enhanced pharmacist involvement. I can't tell you how many incorrect medication regimens I've seen or med errors made.
 

TurtleDude

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The medical system is pretty screwed. I'm biased but I honestly think medication related deaths and poor outcomes could be fixed with enhanced pharmacist involvement. I can't tell you how many incorrect medication regimens I've seen or med errors made.

well the good news is that unlike many posts and posters who complain about a problem and expect others to do something about it-you are in a position to actually make a difference

best of luck
 

digsbe

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well the good news is that unlike many posts and posters who complain about a problem and expect others to do something about it-you are in a position to actually make a difference

best of luck

If empowered, I'd hope too.

I kinda do have a vision even if it's a tad far out... I've had a plethora of rotations and been in some innovative places. I know people like to talk trash about the VA, but when it comes to pharmacist services they're actually really good. I did 2 rotations with the VA, one in the inpatient psychiatric ward and one in the oncology department. The psych pharmacist saw patients, could prescribe drugs to help with their conditions. We'd have team meetings every day and we tailored their med regimen and tried to make it as safe as possible. We also caught some concerns like using certain anti psychotics in patients with heart problems and got to lead treatment team discussions with patients and counsel them on their meds, among other things. We did a lot of innovative stuff.

My last rotation was at an ambulatory care clinic for lower-income or uninsured patients. We had a clinical pharmacist specialized in ambulatory care on site and 2 NP's. As a student I got to do the physicals on the patients, assess their labs, modify their medication regimens and set them back on the right path again. I'd show my work to the NP for approval (since it at to be done under their name) and through my preceptor, but we were doing the work and doing it well. We were mainly managing chronic condistions while the NPs saw acute illness or had to do procedures like ingrown toe nail removals. We were fully trained and capable of managing their diagnosed conditions and doing it well, and it did turn out well.

My internal medicine rotation was a little different. We'd get assigned floors to review those patients charts and make recommendations on what was wrong (and there were many medication errors or improper meds). We'd catch medication errors and alert the prescriber, we'd manage certain things like anticoagulation (ordering labs and giving the drugs to anti-coagulate a patient).

My oncology rotation wasn't what I hoped it would have been, but we did see chemo patients and assess their health status and prescribe meds to help. Mainly anti-nausea meds or medications to help with bone marrow counts if their counts were going down. I worked with the stem cell transplant pharmacist later on and we worked mounds around what I did on this rotation.

My Stem cell rotation was pretty innovative too. The clinical pharmacist would round with the hematologist and their NPs. NPs would do the physical abd prescribed the meds and run their report by the physician. He'd make his changes and make decisions like changes in chemo regimen or if they think things were working. We would manage all the meds they were playing with and many times their secondary conditions. We'd manage the lab values associated with the meds, if meds were safe to use together, if one is better than the other... etc. We were a good resource that would change around doses of a drug based on how it's drug levels came back on a lab (we have to physically change tings and make adjustments under the NPs name). Not to mention counselling patients inpatient and outpaitnet.

In my first hospital I was tasked with discharge counselling for a full floor as well as working to make sure every patient was anticoagulated properly. And of course I was reviewing over every persons case on my floor each day to make sure it was all good.

I'll never forget though. One of our patients had chronic kidney disease, diabetes, heart failure, dislipidemia, and none of it controlled. Their meds were a ****storm and I spent an hour fixing him. This patient needed an ACE/ARB for their blood pressure and kidney function. They needed to be on a high intensity statin like with atorvastatin 40mg. They were already on motoprolol which was fine. However, they were on invokana which is a diabetic medicine that helps you pee urine out. With the patient having shot kidneys this drug was only hurting them and we advocated taking it off and adding another medicine for their insulin.

All what we did got shot down. The only thing to change was the metoprolol was swapped to carvedilol. I'll never forget that day.
 

ludin

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The medical system is pretty screwed. I'm biased but I honestly think medication related deaths and poor outcomes could be fixed with enhanced pharmacist involvement. I can't tell you how many incorrect medication regimens I've seen or med errors made.

I think this is because doctors are getting a cut of pushing certain medications compared to others.
I know people that pop 20 different pills a day. stupid if you ask me.

we as a society are just over medicated.
 

TurtleDude

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I think this is because doctors are getting a cut of pushing certain medications compared to others.
I know people that pop 20 different pills a day. stupid if you ask me.

we as a society are just over medicated.
having dealt with doctors who were passing out opium based pain killers as if it was candy corn on a halloween night, I agree with you
 

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having dealt with doctors who were passing out opium based pain killers as if it was candy corn on a halloween night, I agree with you

those things are a plague. I witnessed first hand a family get destroyed because a doctor wouldn't listen to the guys wife and kept giving him those damn pills.
 

TurtleDude

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those things are a plague. I witnessed first hand a family get destroyed because a doctor wouldn't listen to the guys wife and kept giving him those damn pills.

pain management is one of the most complex and vicious issues facing the medical community. I have watched three very good attorneys-two I tried cases against and a third I grew up with, ruin their lives and practices due to addictions to pain killers. NONE Of the three were "recreational drug users" but rather people who were hurt-one was a College football player, another as some sort of other athlete and the last in an accident-and got addicted
 

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pain management is one of the most complex and vicious issues facing the medical community. I have watched three very good attorneys-two I tried cases against and a third I grew up with, ruin their lives and practices due to addictions to pain killers. NONE Of the three were "recreational drug users" but rather people who were hurt-one was a College football player, another as some sort of other athlete and the last in an accident-and got addicted

he really got his hand messed up working on a pool. he had an addictive past before but the doctor kept giving him those stupid pills.
he just went 100% south. lost his wife, daughter, and eventually I think died or committed suicide one of the two.
 

TurtleDude

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he really got his hand messed up working on a pool. he had an addictive past before but the doctor kept giving him those stupid pills.
he just went 100% south. lost his wife, daughter, and eventually I think died or committed suicide one of the two.

sadly, not a rare story but rather common
 

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at least doctors attempt to save lives. Can't say that for gun nuts at all

i can see in your land of terror you're holding a surgeon at gunpoint while he operates on you, commanding which nerve ending he is to severe....expect you have no ****ing idea because unlike him you're not a doctor

put the random gun nut in charge of surgeries and see what happens

btw, how many fewer do you think heart disease or cancer would kill without medical intervention?
 

TurtleDude

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at least doctors attempt to save lives. Can't say that for gun nuts at all

i can see in your land of terror you're holding a surgeon at gunpoint while he operates on you, commanding which nerve ending he is to severe....expect you have no ****ing idea because unlike him you're not a doctor

put the random gun nut in charge of surgeries and see what happens

btw, how many fewer do you think heart disease or cancer would kill without medical intervention?

your anti gun hysteria appears to get worse and worse each week.. this post of yours is non responsive and is fueled by what i have described before-an irrational hatred of gun owners without having any facts whatsoever to support your hoplophobic positions.

the bit of holding a surgeon at gun point is one of the most idiotic bits of psychobabble I have ever seen and has absolutely nothing to do with this thread
 

chromium

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your anti gun hysteria appears to get worse and worse each week.. this post of yours is non responsive and is fueled by what i have described before-an irrational hatred of gun owners without having any facts whatsoever to support your hoplophobic positions.

the bit of holding a surgeon at gun point is one of the most idiotic bits of psychobabble I have ever seen and has absolutely nothing to do with this thread

this thread had nothing at all to do with the issue of medical mistakes to begin with. Your dissent into your hard on for guns, it's like you tried from the start to destroy your own thread with useless diversions. You truly will grasp at anything in order to make it about guns. So you can't expect any kind of 'logic' when you derail to hell a valid subject such as deadly medical errors with nonsense about guns. Do you wish to bring guns with you into the operating room and this will somehow prevent those errors? No? Then WTF are you on about

so i leave you with more logic worthy of this thread: If doctors weren't so busy cleaning out their GUNS during open heart surgery, there'd be fewer fatal medical errors
 

TurtleDude

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this thread had nothing at all to do with the issue of medical mistakes to begin with. Your dissent into your hard on for guns, it's like you tried from the start to destroy your own thread with useless diversions. You truly will grasp at anything in order to make it about guns. So you can't expect any kind of 'logic' when you derail to hell a valid subject such as deadly medical errors with nonsense about guns. Do you wish to bring guns with you into the operating room and this will somehow prevent those errors? No? Then WTF are you on about

so i leave you with more logic worthy of this thread: If doctors weren't so busy cleaning out their GUNS during open heart surgery, there'd be fewer fatal medical errors

that's just hysterical nonsense. its nothing more than lies and dishonesty that are the product of someone who has no real understanding of firearms issues but has decided that you don't like most gun owners because they are perceived by you and your fellow travelers to be hostile to the gay agenda
 

beerftw

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pain management is one of the most complex and vicious issues facing the medical community. I have watched three very good attorneys-two I tried cases against and a third I grew up with, ruin their lives and practices due to addictions to pain killers. NONE Of the three were "recreational drug users" but rather people who were hurt-one was a College football player, another as some sort of other athlete and the last in an accident-and got addicted

Pain killers are extremely addictive, and non opiod pain killers are junk. I used to get tramadol, the non narcotic painkiller, and now I refuse to take it after a violent siezure, which is an extremely known side effect. Vicodin gives me the warm and fuzzies, but is way too addictive, I tell doctors not to give it to me unless my pain is at 10, otherwise I just brave it because the withdrawel symptons are really extreme, like severe anxiety and breathing problems.


The only non opiod pain killer I have seen work well is marijuana, but the federal govt still bans it, but allows vastly more dangerous drug to be given.
 

MickeyW

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based on a local report on our nightly news. Only heart disease and cancer kill more. 30 times more than all firearms homicides combined. Yet many of the biggest advocates for gun bans are liberal doctors.

Heal thyself doctor before claiming guns

Yes indeed!

The medical system is pretty screwed. I'm biased but I honestly think medication related deaths and poor outcomes could be fixed with enhanced pharmacist involvement. I can't tell you how many incorrect medication regimens I've seen or med errors made.

So have I......
 

MickeyW

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at least doctors attempt to save lives. Can't say that for gun nuts at all

i can see in your land of terror you're holding a surgeon at gunpoint while he operates on you, commanding which nerve ending he is to severe....expect you have no ****ing idea because unlike him you're not a doctor

put the random gun nut in charge of surgeries and see what happens

btw, how many fewer do you think heart disease or cancer would kill without medical intervention?

Seriously dude, you are watching way too much TV and that subscription to Bad Living Magazine, is filling your head with silliness.

your anti gun hysteria appears to get worse and worse each week.. this post of yours is non responsive and is fueled by what i have described before-an irrational hatred of gun owners without having any facts whatsoever to support your hoplophobic positions.

the bit of holding a surgeon at gun point is one of the most idiotic bits of psychobabble I have ever seen and has absolutely nothing to do with this thread

Yep...psychobabble for sure! :thumbs:

this thread had nothing at all to do with the issue of medical mistakes to begin with. Your dissent into your hard on for guns, it's like you tried from the start to destroy your own thread with useless diversions. You truly will grasp at anything in order to make it about guns. So you can't expect any kind of 'logic' when you derail to hell a valid subject such as deadly medical errors with nonsense about guns. Do you wish to bring guns with you into the operating room and this will somehow prevent those errors? No? Then WTF are you on about

so i leave you with more logic worthy of this thread: If doctors weren't so busy cleaning out their GUNS during open heart surgery, there'd be fewer fatal medical errors

Dude...both of your posts are non-nonsensical. I mean they have no validity, or place in reality! No adult in their right mind, would try and connect any of those dots! :2sick1:

that's just hysterical nonsense. its nothing more than lies and dishonesty that are the product of someone who has no real understanding of firearms issues but has decided that you don't like most gun owners because they are perceived by you and your fellow travelers to be hostile to the gay agenda

Mega dittos TD....Mega dittos!
 
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Cameron

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based on a local report on our nightly news. Only heart disease and cancer kill more. 30 times more than all firearms homicides combined. Yet many of the biggest advocates for gun bans are liberal doctors.

Heal thyself doctor before claiming guns
Would probably be a lot more if the medical profession weren't so highly regulated.
 

ajn678

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at least doctors attempt to save lives. Can't say that for gun nuts at all

i can see in your land of terror you're holding a surgeon at gunpoint while he operates on you, commanding which nerve ending he is to severe....expect you have no ****ing idea because unlike him you're not a doctor

put the random gun nut in charge of surgeries and see what happens

btw, how many fewer do you think heart disease or cancer would kill without medical intervention?

Many "gun nuts" are ex military who have given their own lives and saved many lives themselves. I can't really answer your next sentence because I don't understand how you got from one point to the other. No one is asking "gun nuts" to be given surgical tools to operate on people. How many people do you think would become addicted to opiates if many doctors weren't getting kickbacks from the drug companies to keep the pills pushed? The medical industry as a whole has moved away from helping people, to making sure their pockets are lined with tons of cash. No matter what it does to the patient. Oftentimes, if you can't be sold a pill, they don't care about your problems.

But yea, pull out your gun statistics that include all gun violence like it was equal. The likelihood that a person who doesn't hang around with criminals in urbanized areas to randomly be shot and killed is so statistically low, it doesn't even register. Let me know when guns start crippling 2% of the entire population of the United States like painkillers do. Then, you might have a point.
 

Crimefree

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at least doctors attempt to save lives. Can't say that for gun nuts at all

i can see in your land of terror you're holding a surgeon at gunpoint while he operates on you, commanding which nerve ending he is to severe....expect you have no ****ing idea because unlike him you're not a doctor

put the random gun nut in charge of surgeries and see what happens

btw, how many fewer do you think heart disease or cancer would kill without medical intervention?

Your question is an emotional loaded question that has no relevance. How many lies would be saved if doctors did not over prescribe and incorrectly prescribe medication is the correct question. You know the answer yet cannot point to anything doctors are doing to reduce that horrific figure they mask and accept no responsibility for.

So in all history you have no record of firearm owners coming to the rescue of others. Now you try and claim this is the norm. Let me assure you because the media does not hype such events does not mean they do not occur. In ever school shooting where such people have intervened lives have been saved. There are thousands of others.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/2/11/gun-owners-to-the-rescue/
 
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