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Media Bias and Mis-information

Well is there some where to verify that. I'm not buying it.
It is very recent, so maybe the story in on the CNN web site.
 
Pacridge said:
What reciepts? Where did you read this? News Max? World Net Daily? Again. The Duelfer Report http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/ shows Saddam was not making Chemical Weapons. Even the Bush White House has admitted this at this point.

I will kindly bow out. I had not read that report, but could have sworn I read it on reuters (yahoo).

This is good stuff... amazing what is found in hindsite...also what is also amazing is that perception is everything.
 
vauge said:
I will kindly bow out. I had not read that report, but could have sworn I read it on reuters (yahoo).

This is good stuff... amazing what is found in hindsite...also what is also amazing is that perception is everything.

It's not perception when they just make stuff up. That's called lying.
 
Hi Parc. What are you refferring to when you say MAKE THING UP ?

!NO SPELL CHECK TODAY!

Are you talking about the letter from YOUR BUDDY / LOVER BUSH national guard service !. Even if you can say it was a lie or forged dociments
Dan Rather has been a news man for 50+ years or so !.

So of course he MAY have made a FEW mistakes but I'll put his record as well as Peter Jenning & Tim Russert & Ted Kopal etc.This news man have 40 -50 + years of experince each and I'll put them againest ANYBOBY in the news bussiness

So bring it on! :D If you can ! Or are you all talk? Or can your walk you talk news businessd

Debating is the most fun a person can have and still have their pants on

FREDOM OF THE PRESS
FREEDOM69
 
Freedom69 said:
Hi Parc. What are you refferring to when you say MAKE THING UP ?

!NO SPELL CHECK TODAY!

Are you talking about the letter from YOUR BUDDY / LOVER BUSH national guard service !. Even if you can say it was a lie or forged dociments
Dan Rather has been a news man for 50+ years or so !.

So of course he MAY have made a FEW mistakes but I'll put his record as well as Peter Jenning & Tim Russert & Ted Kopal etc.This news man have 40 -50 + years of experince each and I'll put them againest ANYBOBY in the news bussiness

So bring it on! :D If you can ! Or are you all talk? Or can your walk you talk news businessd

Debating is the most fun a person can have and still have their pants on

FREDOM OF THE PRESS
FREEDOM69

My comment was directed at FNC and their constantly reporting that Saddam did have and was making WMD's. Which the CIA and the US government now know isn't accurate. Fox keeps reporting that they did, even though the Deulfer report clearly states there's no evidence to support that claim. FNC keeps reporting this BS even though they know it’s BS. Which, I think, is the main reason conservatives still believe the WMD BS. They watch Fox, Fox feeds them BS and they eat the BS up.
 
Which, I think, is the main reason conservatives still believe the WMD BS. They watch Fox, Fox feeds them BS and they eat the BS up.
I think you need to give people a little more credit, Pacridge. We aren't all as stupid as Al Franken says we are. The left likes to believe it to make themselves feel superior I suppose, but it isn't true.
 
Squawker said:
I think you need to give people a little more credit, Pacridge. We aren't all as stupid as Al Franken says we are. The left likes to believe it to make themselves feel superior I suppose, but it isn't true.
The left likes to feel superior (to the 'common people', I assume you mean)? I see no evidence of this. And what of the right? Is lowering taxes on the rich helping the common man? Is further deregulation and privatisation helping the common man? Are more and more power to businesses and less to labor unions helping the common man? Is globalization (a byproduct of the ever-expanding 'free' market) helping the common man? This is right wing rant and, as one leftist author points out, a tactic of the new market populism. The goal of modern Republicans is to hide the economic from the public while showering the public with patriotism and Christian morals, things the Republicans are said to have 'more of'.
 
Squawker said:
I think you need to give people a little more credit, Pacridge. We aren't all as stupid as Al Franken says we are. The left likes to believe it to make themselves feel superior I suppose, but it isn't true.
I have no problem giving people credit- where credit is due. But when it comes to people who constantly and consistently look a fiction and claim it's fact- then look at fact and refuse to acknowledge it as such. Then my credits going to be severely limited.
 
But when it comes to people who constantly and consistently look a fiction and claim it's fact- then look at fact and refuse to acknowledge it as such. Then my credits going to be severely limited.
Ahh, you mean the Facts as Al Franken presents them? If this is an example of his "facts", I think I'll pass.
I think columnist Jonah Goldberg has it absolutely right. Writing for the website Townhall.com, Goldberg says of Franken, "He's schizophrenic; unwilling to decide whether he's a comedian or political commentator. This is different from being a funny commentator or a political comedian. Franken wants to be both, which often makes him fail at both because he's too serious to be one and not funny enough to the other."

My own experience with Franken demonstrates the point Goldberg was making. Franken and I were both on the first TV version of "Politically Incorrect". Bill Mahrer was the moderator. Without any provocation from me, Franken went on the attack, "You conservatives are big on war. You always want a military solution," he roared. Then he turned to me and looking directly at me shouted, "Where were you during the Viet Nam War?"

"Taking care of my children," was my truthful reply. The audience cheered. It stunned Franken. Mahrer said it was time to move on. But as soon as we went to a break, Franken lit into Mahrer, "Why did you let him attack me?" Franken asked - referring to me. Mahrer said, "He didn't attack you. You attacked him."

Franken replied, "Well, you made me look bad by letting his statement stand."

Mahrer shot back, "How you look is not my responsibility."

Source

It seems even liberals don't care much for Al Franken.
Liberal writer Justin Felux griped that Air America had taken over an outlet in New York, WLIB-1190 AM, which is owned by the Inner City Broadcasting Corporation and served the black community. He quoted a black activist as saying that Air America could not speak to the local community and its needs. "Of course," said Felux, "most white liberals are too busy bubbling over with joy to give a [darn]." Felux noted that Franken now has his own show on Air America, The O'Franken Factor. He added, "Somehow I doubt black people will be tuning in to hear Al Franken deliver cheesy one-liners about Bill O'Reilly."
Another activist said the new network was too white. "As far as I've heard," the activist said to the Sacramento Observer, "they've got a couple of Whites who just really want to go after Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly and all the others. You can't convince me that that's going to be something good for Black and Hispanic people."
Source

Fox isn't perfect by any means, but compared to the liberal/left wing news outlets they look pretty darn good.
 
Don't confuse Franken with news...most of what he says is strictly entertainment. He does, however, get some things right. One of these was his documentation of Ann Coulter's lies. But don't confuse his anti-conservative rant as 'left wing news'. He is an entertainer. Some of his stuff is backed by facts, some isn't. Here's a good site if you really want left wing perspective news: cursor.org .
 
Don't confuse Franken with news...most of what he says is strictly entertainment.
Trust me Anomaly, I don't. I am not an Ann Coulter fan either.
 
Squawker said:
Trust me Anomaly, I don't. I am not an Ann Coulter fan either.
Very glad to hear that!
 
Squawker said:
Ahh, you mean the Facts as Al Franken presents them? If this is an example of his "facts", I think I'll pass.


Source

It seems even liberals don't care much for Al Franken.

Source

Fox isn't perfect by any means, but compared to the liberal/left wing news outlets they look pretty darn good.

Wow! you found people who dislike Franken. Spend a lot time on that? Maybe I could further the debate by finding sources, writers and pundits who dislike Fox, Hannity, Rush or Coulter. I'm sure that would take me just as long. But really what does that prove?

It doesn't change that he backs up his claims and so far everything you've presented goes absolutely nowhere. Facts are fact whether Franken presents them or someone else. Claiming "the Facts as Al Franken presents them" means nothing when you don't back it up with some facts. Using the methodology you're using to claim Franken is lying I can prove aliens not only exist but they been holding high level meetings and negotiations with every President since Truman. Just don’t do what I did with the cites you’ve provided- you know fact check them.

.
 
anomaly said:
Don't confuse Franken with news...most of what he says is strictly entertainment. He does, however, get some things right. One of these was his documentation of Ann Coulter's lies. But don't confuse his anti-conservative rant as 'left wing news'. He is an entertainer. Some of his stuff is backed by facts, some isn't. Here's a good site if you really want left wing perspective news: cursor.org .

Do you have a site that has some of his stuff that doesn't fact check out? I used to have one and now I can't find it. It was called something like "Franken Watch" or "Al Franken Watch" I had it and lost my book mark when I caught a virus and lost all my book marks. I was in the process of fact checking it and some of it was looking pretty good as far a backing up the claims they were making. Their position was that Franken was lying about some stats he was providing and some bills and who was voting for those bills. That kind of stuff. All their stuff was solely based on what he said. They weren't trying to claim he's lying when he exposes someone else's lies. I.E. they weren't trying to claim Coulter's/O'Reilly?Hannity are not lying and Franken is. I've gone through about four or five sites that try that and they go no where. "Franken's lying about O'Reilly!- oh, and so's O'Reilly's own mother." Priceless.

Anyway, I'm sure it had "Watch" in it's name and now I can't goggle it or find it anywhere. If you know of it or another cite I'm interested.
 
anomaly said:
The left likes to feel superior (to the 'common people', I assume you mean)? I see no evidence of this. And what of the right? Is lowering taxes on the rich helping the common man? Is further deregulation and privatisation helping the common man?.
"Lowering taxes on the rich"is a phrase that the Dems where successful at getting out there.This is an example of how Dems play class warfare pitting the have nots against the haves, they do it all the time.Tax cut was all across the board.Lower income got a rebate even though they don't pay income taxes at all. The tax cut was not ment to help people but stimulate economy be spending/investing the money.Our economy is based on consumer confidence.People spending more money creates jobs.
 
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Wow! you found people who dislike Franken. Spend a lot time on that?
Are you saying you “fact checked” already and none of it is true?
Franken lit into Mahrer, "Why did you let him attack me?" Franken asked - referring to me. Mahrer said, "He didn't attack you. You attacked him."
If this isn’t an example of an outright lie, what is?
"they've got a couple of Whites who just really want to go after Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly and all the others.
Why do you suppose he focused his attention on Fox? Obviously, you have more time to “fact check” than I do, if you run down every instance where someone said Franklin lied, and proven it to be false. I guess ya got me then Pac. Franken doesn’t lie and everyone else does, especially Fox who lie all the time. I got it now, thank you.
 
Hey Squawker What in the hell are you talking about NOW.......!

If you are talking about Al Franken well please say so......

FOX and BILL O'LIELY/ Reilly Sean Hannity really got you brain washed because.....!

1) Al Fran ken does not speak for me or 75%-90 of Progressives / liberals /
however it's EXTERMLY easy to see when
I watch FOX and friends i.e BILL ,SEAN , etc how their fans really think people LIKE AL Franken does speak for all Progressives it's because .

THEY i.e FOX and friends... TELLS he does speak for all PROGRESSIVE!.... And because they do not know any better they believe IT

Unlike like most people I get my NEWS from ABC, CBS ,NBC , FOX , I'm a news JUNKIE I listen to the left the right and the MIDDLE then I make up my OWN mind . I find very few people who pay as much attention to the news than I do !. PLUS a lot of TALK shows

Most people ( because they work 50-60-70 + hours per week PLUS every thing it takes to run a family ) Do not have time TIME to watch more than MAY Be 1-2 hours of NEWS per week !. , Others do not care. Others only want to hear the LEFTside , Others only want to hear the RIGHT side ,

So I say again Bill Sean FOX did an AWESOME job on brain washing you and a LOT of other AMERICAN out their ............ Most of whom either never / little watch the news !.

Please take my test comming very soon TITLE the news media


POWER TO THE PEOPLE
FREEDOM69
 
Freedom69 said:

FOX and BILL O'LIELY/ Reilly Sean Hannity really got you brain washed because.....!
[/B]
1) Al Fran ken does not speak for me or 75%-90 of Progressives / liberals /
however it's EXTERMLY easy to see when
I watch FOX and friends i.e BILL ,SEAN , etc how their fans really think people LIKE AL Franken does speak for all Progressives it's because .

THEY i.e FOX and friends... TELLS he does speak for all PROGRESSIVE!.... And because they do not know any better they believe IT

Unlike like most people I get my NEWS from ABC, CBS ,NBC , FOX , I'm a news JUNKIE I listen to the left the right and the MIDDLE then I make up my OWN mind . I find very few people who pay as much attention to the news than I do !. PLUS a lot of TALK
...So let me get this straight. You listen to some of the same talk and news that squawker does but since he agrees with conservative shows then he is brainwashed btu only you are smart enough to know the difference between fact and political bias?
 
Squawker said:
Are you saying you “fact checked” already and none of it is true?

They present 20 some cases where they claim Franken lies. I got tried after 9 lead me no where. So it's possible that the other 11 are accurate. I honestly don't know. I do know the 9 I checked lead no where. They all were like the two I detailed. I.E. the Levittown and the mis-quote of O'Reilly's own mother. After I had to stop back at the library to check and see if the Franken quote was indeed in his book and it wasn't I gave up.

Squawker said:
If this isn’t an example of an outright lie, what is?

How is this a lie again? It looks to me like he's bit*hing at Bill Maher for not supporting him on something where he thought Mr. Maher would have been on his side and Maher basically told him to fight his on battles.


Squawker said:
Why do you suppose he focused his attention on Fox? Obviously, you have more time to “fact check” than I do, if you run down every instance where someone said Franklin lied, and proven it to be false. I guess ya got me then Pac. Franken doesn’t lie and everyone else does, especially Fox who lie all the time. I got it now, thank you.

Honestly, I think he focused on Fox because they lie and they lie a lot. Plus it's not too difficult to document their lies, they do it on camera and at times on their web site. Plus, he's a left wing pundit- who's he going to pick on CBS?

As for "Franken doesn't’ lie and everyone else does." I haven't said that and you keep putting that on me. I've said all along that I think they all lie. I simply have done a bit of fact checking when it comes to his claims that several right wing pundits are lying, near as I can tell his facts check out. I was more then willing to accept that he was lying concerning what Hume said regarding Social Security. Then when I got a tape of the broadcast it turns out Hume and Fox are trying to put words in Franken's mouth. As it turns out Franken never claimed on his show that Hume said "replace." What Franken claimed was Hume took FDR's statements out of order, which Hume certainly did do. What I've said is the sources you've cited have lead me no where.

Now if you're interested in one that actually does seem to lead somewhere try this one:
http://www.optimist123.com/optimist/2005/02/excuse_me_the_c.html

It details some stats that Franken gives in his book that simply do not add up the way he presents them. Near as I can tell in this case he is indeed lying.

I've always been willing to accept this guy might be lying. You, however don't seemed to be even willing to admit that Fox even slants the right. Near as I can tell you look at the Fox BGH suit and seem to think Fox didn't lie at all. Yet a jury found they had indeed lied and tried to force a couple of reporters to lie as well. The only reason that case ended up going in their favor was due to a technicality on appeal. Or as the appeal ruling states:

"Because the FCC’s news distortion policy is not a “law, rule, or regulation”​

Just because they won on a technicality doesn't mean they didn't lie.
 
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alienken said:
"Lowering taxes on the rich"is a phrase that the Dems where successful at getting out there.This is an example of how Dems play class warfare pitting the have nots against the haves, they do it all the time.Tax cut was all across the board.Lower income got a rebate even though they don't pay income taxes at all. The tax cut was not ment to help people but stimulate economy be spending/investing the money.Our economy is based on consumer confidence.People spending more money creates jobs.

Where are you getting this information? I've tried to find anything that says that low income non-tax paying people were given a rebate and I can't find it anywhere. Not saying it's not true, just that I can't verify it. FactCheck.Org has an article that speaks to lower income people receiving no tax cut benefits.

http://www.factcheck.org/article145.html

But nothing in regards to rebates.
 
Tax cuts for the rich are real (alien, you're right that there were tax cuts 'across the board', but the rich did receive a much higher tax cut than lower classes), they are supposed to stimulate the economy through 'trickle down' measures. This entails giving tax cuts to the rich assuming that this extra money will go down to the lower classes. Of course, this rarely happens. If you look at the Gini index (or my new thread in the economics forum), you'll see that lower taxes and deregulation/privatisation create higher inequality. Actually, if you look at what fuels the US economy (cheap foreign labor), you'll see that what we have is a trickle up effect, as the workers in foreign lands (and most workers in America) never see much wage increase when their companies bring in a higher profit. Workers produce tremendous amounts of goods to be sold, and this profit then goes to their CEOs.
 
Pacridge said,
I've always been willing to accept this guy might be lying. You, however don't seemed to be even willing to admit that Fox even slants the right. Near as I can tell you look at the Fox you left out “affiliate” BGH suit and seem to think Fox didn't lie at all. Yet a jury found they had indeed lied and tried to force a couple of reporters to lie as well. The only reason that case ended up going in their favor was due to a technicalityon appeal. Or as the appeal ruling states:

"Because the FCC’s news distortion policy is not a “law, rule, or regulation”

Just because they won on a technicality doesn't mean they didn't lie

I reject the premise that because you, or Franken can find a few examples (ten or twenty) over the last ten years or so, of what you call “lies” that the entire network is worthless. If I put as much effort into critiquing CBS , NBC, or Air America, the percentage rate of misinformation would be much higher than any other news agencies out there. I don’t think Fox slants to the right, I think they allow the right to have a voice which the left seems to have a problem with. Chris Wallace, Tony Snow, Geraldo, Linda Vester, John Gibson, Gretta Van Susteren, Laurie Dhue, and even Brit Hume have some excellent guests from both sides, discussing all topics. If they seem unbalanced on one show, it is evened out on the next one. I do agree that O’Reilly is a general piece of crap, but then he leans left most of the time. Hannity is a propagandist, I will even admit that. Just because they have a few bad apples, that doesn’t make them all bad. I get more information at Fox than from the left wing Networks. To trust and depend on one source of information is never a good idea, but as a Republican, I do not wish to listen to reporters/entertainers degrading my country, and my President, every day. If Air America ever had something positive to say about Republicans, I would take them as a credible source. “Fox lies” is left wing propaganda that the left does not seem to recognize.
 
Squawker said:
Pacridge said,


I reject the premise that because you, or Franken can find a few examples (ten or twenty) over the last ten years or so, of what you call “lies” that the entire network is worthless. If I put as much effort into critiquing CBS , NBC, or Air America, the percentage rate of misinformation would be much higher than any other news agencies out there. I don’t think Fox slants to the right, I think they allow the right to have a voice which the left seems to have a problem with. Chris Wallace, Tony Snow, Geraldo, Linda Vester, John Gibson, Gretta Van Susteren, Laurie Dhue, and even Brit Hume have some excellent guests from both sides, discussing all topics. If they seem unbalanced on one show, it is evened out on the next one. I do agree that O’Reilly is a general piece of crap, but then he leans left most of the time. Hannity is a propagandist, I will even admit that. Just because they have a few bad apples, that doesn’t make them all bad. I get more information at Fox than from the left wing Networks. To trust and depend on one source of information is never a good idea, but as a Republican, I do not wish to listen to reporters/entertainers degrading my country, and my President, every day. If Air America ever had something positive to say about Republicans, I would take them as a credible source. “Fox lies” is left wing propaganda that the left does not seem to recognize.

You're right I left "affiliate" out. I did so out of ignorance, not arrogance. I honestly hadn't heard of the BGH suit until the other poster brought it up. That case was solely related to a local station in Tampa. So, I think you're right that the Fox national network can't be held accountable for the actions of a local affiliate.

As for: find a few examples (ten or twenty) over the last ten years or so, of what you call “lies” Again, lies are lies. And if it were a case of ten or twenty I'd simply say- Ok, these guys don't necessarily lie- they're just really bad at this journalism thing.

But it isn't a few. It's on going and it's all the time. Plus the lies all go in one direction. I think the Hume statement where he rearranged FDR statement to make it sound like FDR would have approved of Bush plan for privatized accounts is a good example of this. I mean If he's not lying why did he take FDR's statement and arrange the sentences? Then when he got caught he and Fox used the tried and true tactic of misdirection. "I'm not lying, they said I said replace, I never said replace, see here's a video clip that clearly slows I never said replace." So people get caught up looking at whether or not he said "replace" and forget that he completely rearranged FDR's statement to make it appear that FDR said something he clearly did not. Plus never mind that "they" never claimed Hume said "replace" to begin with. It's all smoke and mirrors.

As for: If Air America ever had something positive to say about Republicans, I would take them as a credible source. “Fox lies” is left wing propaganda that the left does not seem to recognize. Fox does lie and they do it all the time. I rarely watch them I when I do turn them on I almost always hear lies. So if you want to believe their being honest with you, believe away. But you're wrong.

As for Air America I don't listen to them either. It used to be that I didn't listen to them because I couldn't. I don't get a lot of radio where I live. I get two stations one has "Rush" on in the afternoon, trust me they're not playing any Air America before or after the "Rush." The other's a country music station and they won't even play the "Dixie Chicks" anymore, so I doubt they're going to start playing Al Franken anytime soon either. I recently got DSL and someone told me I can get Air America over the internet since I have a faster connection now. But I'm not interested in being lied to by them any more then I am in being lied to by Fox. As I pointed out in the above link I provided, I certainly think Franken's lying as well at times. He's doing the same thing Fox does, he inserts misinformation in information. Which makes the misinformation difficult to identify.

But I know from a tape I recently had to purchase that at least Air America comes right out and says they're a liberal network, that they are biased. They're not trying to make the claim they're "Fair and Balanced."

Personally I'm down to reading my local and statewide papers and watching my local newscasts. I try tune out any and all political news. For political news I get updates from Mega Vote and when I can stay awake for it I watch C-Span.
 
Fox does lie and they do it all the time. I rarely watch them I when I do turn them on I almost always hear lies. So if you want to believe their being honest with you, believe away. But you're wrong.
I say the same thing about CNN. I can’t stand it. CNN does lie also and they do it all the time. Lol This is where the great “divide” in our country comes from. There was an accusation that President Bush was a divider, not a unifier, but the true source is the media, IMHO. Obviously, it is not an intellectual divide, because you and I are not stupid or easily duped. It seems to more of an ideological and “team competition” mentality. I do give you credit for being more “fair” to the other side than I am. I’ll have to work on that.
 
Squawker said:
I say the same thing about CNN. I can’t stand it. CNN does lie also and they do it all the time. Lol This is where the great “divide” in our country comes from. There was an accusation that President Bush was a divider, not a unifier, but the true source is the media, IMHO. Obviously, it is not an intellectual divide, because you and I are not stupid or easily duped. It seems to more of an ideological and “team competition” mentality. I do give you credit for being more “fair” to the other side than I am. I’ll have to work on that.


What examples of CNN's lying can you give?
 
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