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Meanwhile in China

fortune

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fortune

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I can't figure what you mean re: 70 years. The the Indian Navy was and remains the the keeper of the most of the Indian Ocean. They have the the 6th largest navy on the planet. They (as the Royal Indian Navy) ran those waters for 300 years before that even.

They can and will plug the Malacca from their islands there.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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I can't figure what you mean re: 70 years. The the Indian Navy was and remains the the keeper of the most of the Indian Ocean. They have the the 6th largest navy on the planet. They (as the Royal Indian Navy) ran those waters for 300 years before that even.

They can and will plug the Malacca from their islands there.


India became independent about 70 years ago, before that it was a British colony for the most part with some small sections belonging to Portugal. The Mughal Empire while large was not exactly a naval power.


The Royal Indian navy before that time would have had British commanders and would have ben under British leadership
 

fortune

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India's navy is quite competitive as well.
I should not have responded with any reference to the British so I would not be dissed by the Trampoline. Live and Learn :)
 

dirtpoorchris

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Either China will try to take over the mountainous regions of India on teh border and we will go help India, or they dont and eventually one day American politics becomes friends with China. I dont really see any other thing leading to war.
 

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Meh. Easy meat for ocean-going drones. This is a classic example of planning for the last war.
 

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What "ocean going drones"?
The US and China are both developing unmanned naval vessels both surface and submarines. The ones I have seen are small for naval vessels
 

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Luce

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Interesting you should mention that



Won't help when a submersible drone blows the keel off of the bastard. And we know for certain that submersible, autonomous drones are a thing.
 

Luce

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The US and China are both developing unmanned naval vessels both surface and submarines. The ones I have seen are small for naval vessels

The submersible one that made the news could have carried 500 kg of RDX, enough to put paid to almost any existing ship. It's also got a composite hull that MAD and sonar can't see worth damn.
 

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Beijing's islands in the South China Sea are vulnerable while most of 'em whether artificial or natural are indefensible in the event of a conflict or war. Lines are few that could supply, support, reinforce, communicate in a coherent or effective defense whether it be a single island or a group of islands claimed by Beijing.

Someone in Beijing ratted out the CCP DictatorTyrants in Beijing by confirming this from the Chinese side. The culprit is known however and is none other than Naval and Merchant Ships, a Beijing based industrial magazine published by the China State Shipbuilding Corporation, which supplies the PLA Navy. So someone is trying to speak up in support of the Chinese saps who are stuck out there on the assorted collection of tombstone islands flung far and wide.


Beijing may have built bases in the South China Sea, but that doesn't mean it can defend them, report claims​


China has built island bases that are "lonely in the distant sea," far from the Chinese mainland and other islands

https%3A%2F%2Fprod.static9.net.au%2Ffs%2F333a3301-2576-4138-b315-ee6f58878b34

DigitalGlobe imagery of the Subi Reef in the South China Sea, a part of the Spratly Islands group in the southernmost Sea off Indonesia and claimed by Beijing. (Getty) Indonesia has deployed a naval fleet of 40 ships to the area that are based at nearby Indonesian ports.


But while the distant bases expand Beijing's control over the area, they are also far from any help in the event of military action. Naval and Merchant Ships gave the example of Fiery Cross Reef, which is 1000km from Sanya, a city on Hainan island, just off the southern Chinese coast, and 800km from the Paracel Islands [in the Vietnam EEZ], also controlled by Beijing. The bases, the report added, are highly vulnerable to ambush, given their remote locations, and could be targeted by both US and Japanese long-range missile systems, or by naval forces in the region. And even were the islands themselves not attacked, they would be simple to blockade, starving forces of their supplies.

https%3A%2F%2Fprod.static9.net.au%2Ffs%2Fcb603012-03c3-4016-ba69-6a106325f6a3

Satellite image of Woody Island in the Paracel island chain in the South China Sea taken in November, 2017, shows two Chinese Y-8 military transport aircraft. (AAP)


Malcolm Davis, a senior analyst in defence strategy and capability at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, said, "Island shelters lack vegetation, natural rock and soil and other coverings, and the altitude is low, while the groundwater level is high. Personnel and resources cannot be stored underground for a long time," adding that any shelters built on the bases would have "very limited" anti-strike capabilities. "The harsh environmental conditions in the South China Sea - salt water corrosion, poor weather - make it almost impossible to deploy anything on the islands in a manner that could allow them to defend these bases," he said. Davis said that while some islands may be effective as shooting platforms, they would be among the first targets if a conflict was to occur in the South China Sea, and it is "just physically impossible to build an island that is essentially defensible" given the type of reefs and sandbars originally there. "But it is becoming evident that they're actually not a practical step in the long term because they can't actually defend those bases."




The SCS is a closed off Chinese lake as things are. That is, India controls the Malacca Strait access route to the west. U.S. and Japan control the only two direct routes of the PLA Navy to the open western Pacific, the Bashi Channel between Taiwan and the Philippines, and the Miyako Strait just north of Taiwan in the Ryukyu island chain that further encloses China between Taiwan and Japan. Which leaves the PLA Navy enclosed in the SCS and enclosed along the continental shelf north to Shanghai and Dalian at the East Sea and Japan again with SK.
 

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Hence why they have their eyes set on Taiwan
 

Court Jester

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Cool. More targets for the U.S. Navy.

You mean U.S. Airforce. Hypersonic missile fight is coming, and we aim to have the upper hand.;)
 

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I can't figure what you mean re: 70 years. The the Indian Navy was and remains the the keeper of the most of the Indian Ocean. They have the the 6th largest navy on the planet. They (as the Royal Indian Navy) ran those waters for 300 years before that even.

They can and will plug the Malacca from their islands there.
In 2015 when Ashton Carter was SecDef India and the U.S. signed a strategic partnership agreement that gave USA armed forces full access to Indian armed forces bases and facilities to include actions by the U.S. against a third party. China is of course third party #1.

Oil tankers to China from the ME need to pass the southern tip of the Indian subcontinent which means that in any conflict or war the tankers will be either seized or sunk.
 
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Meh. Easy meat for ocean-going drones. This is a classic example of planning for the last war.

What “ocean going drones”? Do you mean “torpedos”?
 

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The US and China are both developing unmanned naval vessels both surface and submarines. The ones I have seen are small for naval vessels
And they are designed almost uniformly as sensor platforms, though some of the submersible ones are intended to carry an ASW torpedo.
 

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The submersible one that made the news could have carried 500 kg of RDX, enough to put paid to almost any existing ship. It's also got a composite hull that MAD and sonar can't see worth damn.

That’s literally just a rebranded torpedo.
 

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Hence why they have their eyes set on Taiwan

Taiwan is a pot of gold at both ends of a rainbow for the CCP DictatorTyrants in Beijing.

PLA Navy has only two direct routes to the open western Pacific and one of 'em, the Miyako Strait is immediately north of Taiwan while the other, the Bashi Channel is immediately south of Taiwan flanked to its south by the U.S. formal mutual defense treaty ally the Philippines.

U.S., Japan, Taiwan have both routes covered.

Miyako is heavily mined and netted with missiles all over the islands of the Strait that is controlled totally by the three navies: USN, Japan Maritime Self Defense Force, Taiwan navy and AF. Likewise for the Bashi Channel. USAF from Guam and USN fly recon planes over the Strait and the Channel almost daily.

Given Beijing's increasing and frequent violations of Taiwan air space and its navy consistently crossing the center line of the Strait, USAF and USN have taken the radical change to the "one country" nonsense by flying directly over Taiwan land areas instead of flying over only waters. This has set the Boyz in Beijing hopping mad given that, under the "one country two systems" nonsense, Taiwan is a part of China, just as China is a part of Taiwan.

In Beijing USAF and USN flying over Taiwan land areas from Miyako to Bashi as each has begun doing is in fact flying over PRChina sovereign airspace. The next step coming soon is a USAF and USN aircraft landing at a Taiwan AF base. It would be to Beijing like a USAF or USN aircraft landing at the military area of Beijing airport. On Taiwan the USAF/USN crews would stop in the base lounge for a quick coffee and sandwich then take off again. Drive the CCP Boyz in Beijing arm flapping nutso.

The Taiwan Defense Act introduced in the Congress for the first time last year calls for a Pentagon assessment of using nukes to defend Taiwan, to include hitting the mainland across from Taiwan. This is the direct consequence of Xi Jinping saying publicly that Taiwan will be officially and finally incorporated as mainland by the time he, Xi, goes to his grave. Xi said this. Still, the only clear thing about it is that Xi will indeed go to his grave.
 
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In 2018 the PLA Navy sub that had been tracked continuously by the Japanese for two dayze and nights finally surfaced, showed the flag and returned to base. If it had been wartime the flag would have been white.

n-chinaships-a-20180116-870x535-1517253804.jpg

Are China’s Nuclear Subs Too Noisy for Their Own Good?​

An incident in the East China Sea has observers wondering if China’s nuke boats have a noise problem.

JAN 29, 2018

In 2003, all 70 Chinese sailors aboard a Chinese diesel electric submarine died during a training accident. The submarine reportedly drifted for days before a fishing boat came upon the lifeless vessel. Regardless, the fact that Japanese forces were able to track China’s latest nuclear attack submarine continuously for two days does not exactly instill confidence in the submarine’s abilities.



Chinese subs continue to do what they need to do, ie, improve.
they are improving
a lot of people think it is their Nuc. subs we need to watch but with the new developments in batteries the newer Diesel electric subs only have to surface and run their diesel eng. once every three or four days and not for that long to recharge and can go a very long distance on their batteries
have a nice night
 

Lord Tammerlain

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they are improving
a lot of people think it is their Nuc. subs we need to watch but with the new developments in batteries the newer Diesel electric subs only have to surface and run their diesel eng. once every three or four days and not for that long to recharge and can go a very long distance on their batteries
have a nice night
It is the AIP submarines which are among the best now, they can last I believe 2 and a half weeks underwater
 

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they are improving
a lot of people think it is their Nuc. subs we need to watch but with the new developments in batteries the newer Diesel electric subs only have to surface and run their diesel eng. once every three or four days and not for that long to recharge and can go a very long distance on their batteries
have a nice night

The PRC armed forces are an extension of the CCP and as such are subordinate to the Party, just as the CCP-PRC state is subordinate to the Party. In other words the Chinese armed forces are the armed forces of the Communist Party.

From the company level up through the units from battalion, regiment, brigade, fleet, wing, submarine force and so on there are two co-commanders of each unit. One officer is the military officer while the other co-commander is the political officer. While the two are called co-commanders the political officer who is far less educated and trained in tactics, strategy, operations, is the senior commander who has the final word.


The increasing number of ships and submarines in the PLA Navy merits our attention for several reasons among them being the fact quantity has a quality all of its own. So underestimating the steady progress of the Chinese navy would also reflect a serious miscalculation. Nonetheless, the professionalism, consistent at-sea experience, combat readiness, and command and control capabilities of any navy are paramount considerations. So while we continue to witness the ongoing increase in the size of the Chinese navy, we should also more fully account for their ability to harness these platforms effectively,

China's historic riverboat only navy of a single paddleboat here and another single boat there is a shallow history for the PLAN to draw on regionally and globally. Mao got China's first submarine from the Soviet Russians in 1953 and Beijing has continued to buy Russian export model subs and Russian export limited designs. Several years ago Beijing reactivated retired Naval NCO due to a personnel shortage yet shipboard officers, nco and enlisted personnel alike continue to rely on their manuals since no one has the experience or the expertise of modern naval technology and warfare, to include aircraft carrier strike groups.

The Nuclear Threat Initiative notes that while PLAN ships continue to be commissioned, ship construction and plans continue to be slowed and revised due to budget and personnel constraints. CCP Boyz in Beijing cringe at the kind of personnel costs of their armed forces that the USA has for both active duty and retired forces, hence the pay and benefits of a career in the CCP armed forces are meager.

Moreover, of the 60 PLAN subs only 17 have Chinese designed AIP. Add to this Japan's naval focus is ASW in support of surface ships to repel an invader's amphibious force land, air, sea and we get a better idea of why the last thing CCP Boyz in Beijing want presently or foreseeably is a conflict of any kind, much less a war -- Taiwan included.
 

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Interesting you should mention that



CCP is constructing a 300 meter aircraft carrier that is expected to have the CATOBAR system of catapult launching and an aircraft recovery system of arrestor gear, meaning it should be able to carry planes that are more heavily armed than the existing two carriers that are something like 270 meters long at the waterline and their ski ramps.

The CCP snafu however is that Chinese still can't build a nuclear powered carrier so this sucker will have a small operational range and reach while relying heavily on replenishment at sea. Chinese engineers are moreover still struggling over whether it can use advanced electric drive, ie, integrated electric propulsion. And the engineers are nervous about the Type-003 EMALS electro-magnetic aircraft launch system given the headaches it caused on the new Ford class carrier of the USN. Nuclear powered Ford btw is 317 meters and ready now to kick arse at any time.

So Your Beloved CCP Boyz in Beijing and their PLA Naval engineers have hit a brick wall on this one. They're in over their head trying to make that one single and meaningless propaganda and psyche ops carrier that approaches the Ford.
 

fortune

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CCP is constructing a 300 meter aircraft carrier that is expected to have the CATOBAR system of catapult launching and an aircraft recovery system of arrestor gear, meaning it should be able to carry planes that are more heavily armed than the existing two carriers that are something like 270 meters long at the waterline and their ski ramps.

The CCP snafu however is that Chinese still can't build a nuclear powered carrier so this sucker will have a small operational range and reach while relying heavily on replenishment at sea. Chinese engineers are moreover still struggling over whether it can use advanced electric drive, ie, integrated electric propulsion. And the engineers are nervous about the Type-003 EMALS electro-magnetic aircraft launch system given the headaches it caused on the new Ford class carrier of the USN. Nuclear powered Ford btw is 317 meters and ready now to kick arse at any time.

So Your Beloved CCP Boyz in Beijing and their PLA Naval engineers have hit a brick wall on this one. They're in over their head trying to make that one single and meaningless propaganda and psyche ops carrier that approaches the Ford.
You I believe are a good source of Naval information so help me out please.
I read in Janes within the last year that some or all or new carriers are now using three wires instead of four. Some of that reasoning was the arresting gear took up way more room below decks. So eliminating one gave them more space. But I do not know if the new EMALS (i literaley laughed aloud after typing that and you know why).. if you know how much space was saved there? More aircraft?
 

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You I believe are a good source of Naval information so help me out please.
I read in Janes within the last year that some or all or new carriers are now using three wires instead of four. Some of that reasoning was the arresting gear took up way more room below decks. So eliminating one gave them more space. But I do not know if the new EMALS (i literaley laughed aloud after typing that and you know why).. if you know how much space was saved there? More aircraft?
Hey I was Army although my kid brother went Navy and served on the Big John CV 67 in ASW and then later on a nuclear repair flying team that dealt with emergencies on subs wherever it was happening.

Three landing arrestor wires rather than four on a carrier such as the Ford reduces redundancy more than anything about space below decks. Although some space is freed up the location and surroundings are not anywhere you'd want to park a single additional super hornet.

Four arrestor wires are 40ft between 'em so when you've got 4 of 'em sprawled out you're eating up 160ft of the ship's most narrow deck space and this is when virtually every pilot connects to the second wire. If you put only two wires pilots would connect to the second wire.

For all Ford's troubles -- Navy decided to put all its coming generations of technology into the one carrier ready or not -- naval engineers do wonders. EMALS sucks up for instance 100 million kilowatts on a 3-second launch. While it takes the local power company an acre of equipment to produce that strength of volume naval engineers put the whole system into an orange crate to fit it on board. They're working on a shoebox now btw.
 
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