McJobs and the Minimum Wage[W:123,226]

[j-mac]

Here is a though go try to servive on minimum wage in New York for a week and see how far that gets you maybe a couple of cab rides. So the right complains about people being on welfare, then they gripe when they do have a job and want a raise while the profits of these companies are in the 100 million range. GOP new slogan should be: Keep them poor, Get them sick, let them die quickly.

What is this? The Alan Grayson response? Come on now greengirl, if people can't survive on minimum wage, then they have to get a different job. If they don't possess the skills to get a higher paying job then get the training to do so. And as a conservative, while they are training to get that better job, I have no problem if they are on assistance while doing such. As long as they are bettering themselves while collecting it.

The faux issue you seem to have with a business making profit that YOU deem excessive, is really irrelevant. It isn't up to you to decide how much a business should make or not. And might I say how pretentious does one have to be to first assume what a business is making as profit, then assume that because you agreed to do a job for them, at a certain wage, that now in that job you have any right to claim their profit.

My suggestion to anyone trying to support a family on a job designed to introduce teenagers to what it means to work, that maybe they shouldn't vote in a President, and government that obviously thinks that these jobs are fine for that individual.

 

[P. Kersey]

Comical isn't it. Most every "right winger" has put more than their fair of time in along the minimum wage scale. We're the ones not standing in the welfare line, and we worked and scrapped our way out of those ranks.

Liberals don't understand money. It's not a "reward" for work. It's a measurement of value; it indicates how rare or unique something is. That's why a diamond costs more than a regular rock. That's why a brain surgeon makes more than a salesman, unless that salesman can outsell 10 other salespeople.

A third grader could work at McDonalds. Literally.

Well said, sir!

 

[Erod]

Here is a though go try to servive on minimum wage in New York for a week and see how far that gets you maybe a couple of cab rides. So the right complains about people being on welfare, then they gripe when they do have a job and want a raise while the profits of these companies are in the 100 million range. GOP new slogan should be: Keep them poor, Get them sick, let them die quickly.

LOL, no offense, but you have zero understanding of economics.

Fine, let's raise their pay to $15 an hour. You know what you've done? You've just devalued the dollar, so everything else is going to cost a lot more now because the dollar isn't worth as much.

The net is, that person isn't in any better shape than before. They have more numerical money in their pocket, but it has exactly the same value as the lesser amount before.

The market dictates. Always.

 

[Grand Mal]

Show me how more productivity occurs by paying the same worker twice as much to do the same thing. We can use running a cash register as an example of a "typical" minimum wage job. Crickets...

Look into a company called American Apparel and it's owner, Dov Charney.
American Apparel | Fashionable Basics. Sweatshop Free. Made in USA.
American Apparel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They make clothing in LA and pay over $30,000/year, compared to about $600 their competitors pay workers in Bangladesh. Management greed and incompetence is easily justified sometimes.

 

[SMTA]

McJobs and the Minimum Wage

Somebody didn't even read the freaking OP.

I did - I was addressing you.

If labor costs are 30%, then doubling them will result in a 30% increase in the final sales price.
No business owner can afford to absorb a 30% increase in labor cost.

This will drive away most customers.

It will also fuel inflation, which has averaged about 3.3% annually for the last decade or so.

Once inflation hits, then these workers loose all that buying power, the economy slows, and small businesses start laying off workers.

Great plan!

 

[Fenton]

Here is a though go try to servive on minimum wage in New York for a
week and see how far that gets you maybe a couple of cab rides. So the right complains about people being on welfare, then they gripe when they do have a job and want a raise while the profits of these companies are in the 100 million range. GOP new slogan should be: Keep them poor, Get them sick, let them die quickly.

Thats pathetic even by some of OUR Liberal posters.

Feel free to post relevent rebutals anytime you like.

Its encouraged here

 

[Erod]

This thread highlights the liberal doctrine of economics.

If you don't have enough money, then just print some more money so you have more money.

Hey, let's print a whole bunch of money, then we can all drive brand new Cadillacs!

 

[Fenton]

I did - I was addressing you.


If labor costs are 30%, then doubling them will result in a 30% increase in the final sales price.
No business owner can afford to absorb a 30% increase in labor cost.

This will drive away most customers.

It will also fuel inflation, which has averaged about 3.3% annually for the last decade or so.

Once inflation hits, then these workers loose all that buying power, the economy slows, and small businesses start laying off workers.

Great plan!

And then they will demand more money, because 15 dollars an hour is no longer a " livable wage".

 

[j-mac]

Look into a company called American Apparel and it's owner, Dov Charney.
American Apparel | Fashionable Basics. Sweatshop Free. Made in USA.
American Apparel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They make clothing in LA and pay over $30,000/year, compared to about $600 their competitors pay workers in Bangladesh. Management greed and incompetence is easily justified sometimes.

$85 for a pair of jeans? Are you kidding me? I can pick up a pair at WalMart for $10.

 

[sawdust]

What is this? The Alan Grayson response? Come on now greengirl, if people can't survive on minimum wage, then they have to get a different job. If they don't possess the skills to get a higher paying job then get the training to do so. And as a conservative, while they are training to get that better job, I have no problem if they are on assistance while doing such. As long as they are bettering themselves while collecting it.

The faux issue you seem to have with a business making profit that YOU deem excessive, is really irrelevant. It isn't up to you to decide how much a business should make or not. And might I say how pretentious does one have to be to first assume what a business is making as profit, then assume that because you agreed to do a job for them, at a certain wage, that now in that job you have any right to claim their profit.

My suggestion to anyone trying to support a family on a job designed to introduce teenagers to what it means to work, that maybe they shouldn't vote in a President, and government that obviously thinks that these jobs are fine for that individual.

The media is part of the problem. They say that McDonalds makes billions of dollars, which no doubt is true. They don't own that many stores though. Individual stores are owned by franchisees or franchise groups. They are not billionaires and have nothing to do with McDonalds making billions of dollars other than the rent they pay for their land leases and the six or seven percent franchise fee they pay to the franchisor.

The individual stores owned by the franchisees make about 10% net on sales that could range from a couple million dollars to five or six million for stores in extremely good locations. Without going into a bunch of restaurant accounting, 10% in not much when you look at the capital investment each store owner has to make in their buildings, and FF&E. That's not much room for error. A bad winter storm can take all of the profit out of one month.

Brazilians tell a joke about Argentineans. They say if you want to make a lot of money, buy an Argentinean for what he's worth and sell him for what he thinks he's worth. Same could be said for burger flippers evidently.

 

[j-mac]

The media is part of the problem. They say that McDonalds makes billions of dollars, which no doubt is true. They don't own that many stores though. Individual stores are owned by franchisees or franchise groups. They are not billionaires and have nothing to do with McDonalds making billions of dollars other than the rent they pay for their land leases and the six or seven percent franchise fee they pay to the franchisor.

The individual stores owned by the franchisees make about 10% net on sales that could range from a couple million dollars to five or six million for stores in extremely good locations. Without going into a bunch of restaurant accounting, 10% in not much when you look at the capital investment each store owner has to make in their buildings, and FF&E. That's not much room for error. A bad winter storm can take all of the profit out of one month.

Brazilians tell a joke about Argentineans. They say if you want to make a lot of money, buy an Argentinean for what he's worth and sell him for what he thinks he's worth. Same could be said for burger flippers evidently.

Wow, that's a lot of work for a small return on capital....A smart investor can have the same return without the headache....Meh....This is why I didn't buy my own truck a few years back...Everyone was telling me to jump in, work for my self etc....But after running the numbers, after overhead, and maintenance, fuel, taxes, emergency contingent funds, I'd make about $2K less than driving for my company and letting them take the headaches.

 

[jmotivator]

My God, low-wage workers using their freedom of association to attempt to bargain for an economic situation better than "work 90 hours a week if you want to eat."

The horror.

Having worked in the fast food industry in the past I can tell you that eating is never a major concern for fast food employees, especially if you work the closing shift.

 

[Fenton]

This thread highlights the liberal doctrine of
economics.

If you don't have enough money, then just print some more money so you have more money.

Hey, let's print a whole bunch of money, then we can all drive brand new Cadillacs!

Yes, whats the term ? To increase " aggregate demand "?

They've failed with this President and this Democrat party, so they blame the market, preach for socialism and then want arbitrary wage increases to grow the economy from the middle out

 

[justabubba]

LOL, no offense, but you have zero understanding of economics.

Fine, let's raise their pay to $15 an hour. You know what you've done? You've just devalued the dollar, so everything else is going to cost a lot more now because the dollar isn't worth as much.

The net is, that person isn't in any better shape than before. They have more numerical money in their pocket, but it has exactly the same value as the lesser amount before.

The market dictates. Always.

all you have shown us is that you have no understanding of economics
using your premise that the fast food employees are granted the raise to $15, that does nothing to the dollar
what it does is put more dollars in the pocket of the person who performed labor for that income
as a consequence of the increased labor cost, the employer must now raise prices on the food sold
but there is a limit to the increase passed on to the customer, because the customer has alternative means to get their cooked food
thus, a portion of that wage increase is going to be reflected in the reduced profitability of the fast food restaurant owner
net result, those who sweated for their wage get more, those who were passive investors get less
that is how the middle class is grown

 

[douglas]

Why is the business owner responsible for their bad choices in life? There are plenty of ways to get out of an entry level job....

It takes effort on your part.

Yeah.....no. There aren't "plenty of ways" to get out of these jobs. Upward mobility is essentially zero now; you can have a college degree, work training, the best work ethic around, and super-ability to do your job, and you'll still be lucky to just keep your minimum wage job. When nobody's hiring, there is always a downwards push to inflation adjusted wages, because employers can afford to take advantage of you; you're replaceable. As long as a good employee is replaceable, there will never be a true opportunity for upward mobility.

if your only option is to work fast food to support your self or your family then the problem is with you not fast food wages

those jobs are not so some one can make a living they are for the high school and college student for some extra spending money or to help with school supplies not to support a family

Except they're not; whether McJobs are only intended for students and temporary stints of "extra spending money", they are all we have now. When there aren't enough "good" jobs to go around, college grads displace low-skill workers. It's a screwed up situation, but it is what it is; working at a McJob is all we have. Or, we could just go on welfare. Would you like that better?

What is this? The Alan Grayson response? Come on now greengirl, if people can't survive on minimum wage, then they have to get a different job. If they don't possess the skills to get a higher paying job then get the training to do so. And as a conservative, while they are training to get that better job, I have no problem if they are on assistance while doing such. As long as they are bettering themselves while collecting it.

The faux issue you seem to have with a business making profit that YOU deem excessive, is really irrelevant. It isn't up to you to decide how much a business should make or not. And might I say how pretentious does one have to be to first assume what a business is making as profit, then assume that because you agreed to do a job for them, at a certain wage, that now in that job you have any right to claim their profit.

My suggestion to anyone trying to support a family on a job designed to introduce teenagers to what it means to work, that maybe they shouldn't vote in a President, and government that obviously thinks that these jobs are fine for that individual.

"then they have to get a different job"? What jobs? There are no jobs. I walked down my street the other night and saw about a dozen shops going out of business or already boarded up. McJobs are what's left, and we're fighting to make them better. Oh, I can't say for greengirl, but I voted Romney; I'm stuck with Obama either way, and I'm trying to make the best of it.

I spent 4 years of my life trying to better myself, I got the degree and the certificates and the internships and the work experience , etc. And...McJobs as far as the eye can see. My last minimum wage job took 2 months of communication, 3 interviews, and I still had to wait to be their second pick. It's ridiculous out there.

 

[justabubba]

Yeah.....no. There aren't "plenty of ways" to get out of these jobs. Upward mobility is essentially zero now; you can have a college degree, work training, the best work ethic around, and super-ability to do your job, and you'll still be lucky to just keep your minimum wage job. When nobody's hiring, there is always a downwards push to inflation adjusted wages, because employers can afford to take advantage of you; you're replaceable. As long as a good employee is replaceable, there will never be a true opportunity for upward mobility.

Except they're not; whether McJobs are only intended for students and temporary stints of "extra spending money", they are all we have now. When there aren't enough "good" jobs to go around, college grads displace low-skill workers. It's a screwed up situation, but it is what it is; working at a McJob is all we have. Or, we could just go on welfare. Would you like that better?

"then they have to get a different job"? What jobs? There are no jobs. I walked down my street the other night and saw about a dozen shops going out of business or already boarded up. McJobs are what's left, and we're fighting to make them better. Oh, I can't say for greengirl, but I voted Romney; I'm stuck with Obama either way, and I'm trying to make the best of it.

I spent 4 years of my life trying to better myself, I got the degree and the certificates and the internships and the work experience , etc. And...McJobs as far as the eye can see. My last minimum wage job took 2 months of communication, 3 interviews, and I still had to wait to be their second pick. It's ridiculous out there.

why work for someone else; why not instead create your own job by starting a small business?

 

[SMTA]

McJobs and the Minimum Wage

And then they will demand more money, because 15 dollars an hour is no longer a " livable wage".

That is exactly right!

 

[P. Kersey]

Yeah.....no. There aren't "plenty of ways" to get out of these jobs. Upward mobility is essentially zero now; you can have a college degree, work training, the best work ethic around, and super-ability to do your job, and you'll still be lucky to just keep your minimum wage job. When nobody's hiring, there is always a downwards push to inflation adjusted wages, because employers can afford to take advantage of you; you're replaceable. As long as a good employee is replaceable, there will never be a true opportunity for upward mobility.

Life is tough but that's how the real world works.

Except they're not; whether McJobs are only intended for students and temporary stints of "extra spending money", they are all we have now. When there aren't enough "good" jobs to go around, college grads displace low-skill workers. It's a screwed up situation, but it is what it is; working at a McJob is all we have. Or, we could just go on welfare. Would you like that better?

Yes?..we all know america is in decline. It's a natural process when government runs amok. The people suffer..until they get angry enough. Then things get changed.

"then they have to get a different job"? What jobs? There are no jobs. I walked down my street the other night and saw about a dozen shops going out of business or already boarded up. McJobs are what's left, and we're fighting to make them better. Oh, I can't say for greengirl, but I voted Romney; I'm stuck with Obama either way, and I'm trying to make the best of it.

You think either party is "better"?
You think we can vote our way out of our problems by electing "different" politicians? Politicians are what cause the problems.

I spent 4 years of my life trying to better myself, I got the degree and the certificates and the internships and the work experience , etc. And...McJobs as far as the eye can see. My last minimum wage job took 2 months of communication, 3 interviews, and I still had to wait to be their second pick. It's ridiculous out there.

Yes it is...and doubling the pay of minimum wage workers won't solve any of it.

 

[joko104]

The media and press are truly sickening. They lock onto so slogan or phrase and then they - and everyone - agrees that is the issue.

HEY, HERE'S A SHOCK! Everyone working at minimum wage isn't working at McDonalds. In fact, there are more Chinese restaurants than there are McDonalds. McDonalds isn't 1% of the hourly work force. But let's all keep agreeing the topic of minimum wage is about McDonalds.

It's really disgusting how people just lock-step to the media and press.

 

[tech30528]

I think all of those in this thread who are advocating $15 an hour for fast food workers, all of those who "feel" people are "entitled" to that, and all of those who claim there is no upward mobility should start their own businesses and provide those living wages. Lead by example or STFU.

 

[Mason66]

Comical isn't it. Most every "right winger" has put more than their fair of time in along the minimum wage scale. We're the ones not standing in the welfare line, and we worked and scrapped our way out of those ranks.

Liberals don't understand money. It's not a "reward" for work. It's a measurement of value; it indicates how rare or unique something is. That's why a diamond costs more than a regular rock. That's why a brain surgeon makes more than a salesman, unless that salesman can outsell 10 other salespeople.

A third grader could work at McDonalds. Literally.

Maybe with a step-stool.

 

[joko104]

$15 per hour also will bring more automation and more central-location prepared foods, meaning fewer jobs.

 

[Mason66]

When is your side going to grasp the concept of personal responsibillity ?

And IF a person has "dependents" or a criminal record, then who's fault is that and what makes you think a arbitrary wage increase is going to improve their situation ?

Most people who are restricted to working a 7 dollar an hour wage have only themselves to blame, and usually don't possess the base intelligence or self control to budget their expenses.

15 wont be enough for them, 21 wont be enough for them because they lack the fundamental knowledge and education to live within their means.

THEN those people have children and pass down that same irresponsible thought process that got them stuck in a 7 dollar an hour job in the first place.

YOu forgot willingness.

A lot of them don't want to do asnything else. They put intheir time and collect their check.

NOw they see they can get doublé the money for the same work and they are all over that, but for them to actually put out an effort, forget it.

 

[justabubba]

$15 per hour also will bring more automation and more central-location prepared foods, meaning fewer jobs.

 

[joko104]

No, I do not agree to raise minimum wage to $15 per hour, but NO I do not agree with trivializing people who work in the fast food industry or any other low paying hourly jobs. The reason most at such jobs wish they had different jobs isn't just for more money. It's because it's hard, monotamous work with virtually not change and no change of advancement.

Not everyone can be high paid hands-off management, lawyers/doctors/accountants/bankers, soldiers and politicians. our society also needs people who actually do labor. Those who claim the solution to everything is everyone getting an MBA or PhD are just wrong. Besides, some people with PhDs can't even get a job at McDonalds being "over qualified." Most people probably have a better career chance at becoming a McDonald's manager than someone with a bachelor's degree in most areas trying to get a job in their field.

I admire people who work with their hands and particularly feel for people stuck on assembly lines and hot, sweaty jobs. Without those "people at the bottom" as many like to call them there would be no one in the middle or at the top. Society would collapse without the "salt of the earth" workers. And I can understand their wanting more. Most are probably worth it. Mandating it is another thing.