McConnell caves on debt ceiling

[Helix]

lol...normally i would be appalled at 'automatic tax increases'..but it might actually force DC politicians to spend less
since their constituents would actually have to pay for (and be accountable to) wasteful spending

it might lead to a different sort of partisan food fight. however, we pay for things one way or the other, IMO.

 

[gbg3]

Mitch most likely realized that if the limit was not raised because of Republicans they would not fair well in elections.

That is certainly something that may have crossed Mitch's mind. I bet he is quite determined to see his party gain control of the House and Senate next year.

 

[gbg3]

In its current incarnation, yes. I would tentatively support a limit that raises taxes automatically once spending goes above it with no additional vote required. However, I'd need to read the details first.

Now, that's an interesting idea! I think Congress would very quickly keep their spending down!!!!!

 

[Helix]

Now, that's an interesting idea! I think Congress would very quickly keep their spending down!!!!!

we should do the same thing for wars, both declared and undeclared, IMO.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

McConnell has caved on the debt ceiling but I wonder if Republicans will see it that way. He agreed to a bill that will allow the debt ceiling to pass the Senate with just 51 votes. That way the debt ceiling gets raised without the Dems using reconciliation. It gets rid of the filibuster in this instance. A couple of things strike me, first, it shows that McConnell is willing to get rid of the filibuster if it suits his political need. Second, he thinks that Republicans are dumb enough to see this as McConnell sticking to his guns about making the Dems " go it alone" on the debt ceiling.

McConnell needs to go.

This is the worst of all worlds. He should’ve forced the democrats to use the reconciliation process because they would’ve caved and done it

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Once again, most of the debt being discussed is for money already spent, like last year and this past year to date.
And that includes the last year of Trump's term.
So Mitch and Trump both sat down and "ordered dinner", a great big fancy one, and now it's time to pay the check.

The validity of the public debt of the United States of America shall not be questioned.

Yeah? So what?

 

[multivita-man]

McConnell has caved on the debt ceiling but I wonder if Republicans will see it that way. He agreed to a bill that will allow the debt ceiling to pass the Senate with just 51 votes. That way the debt ceiling gets raised without the Dems using reconciliation. It gets rid of the filibuster in this instance. A couple of things strike me, first, it shows that McConnell is willing to get rid of the filibuster if it suits his political need. Second, he thinks that Republicans are dumb enough to see this as McConnell sticking to his guns about making the Dems " go it alone" on the debt ceiling.

McConnell basically thinks that the polls are in his favor and that it's counterproductive to threaten the Dems with a fiscal cliffhanger. He's probably right.

 

[multivita-man]

McConnell needs to go.

This is the worst of all worlds. He should’ve forced the democrats to use the reconciliation process because they would’ve caved and done it

As someone who's a progressive and who thinks McConnell is destructive, I can only hope that a majority of your party feels that way.

McConnell, by miles, has done more to advance the causes you care about more than Trump or any other GOP official. As much as I can't stand him, I acknowledge his political genius. He's a mastermind. A five-dimensional chess player.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Yes, and here is the paragraph from the link - just before the paragraph you posted.

"The Republican retreat from a debt-limit showdown was tactical, arising from a position of strength, not weakness. At the moment, Democrats are reeling. Biden’s approval rating is in the toilet; the GOP scored a major victory in last month’s elections in Virginia (and nearly an upset win in New Jersey). Democratic infighting has kept the president’s already-shrunken economic agenda stalled in the Senate. If Democrats are intent on hanging themselves before the midterms next year, McConnell has determined that his best move is to hand them a rope and get out of their way. “As he looks ahead to next year, he loves what he sees, and he doesn’t want to do anything to rock the boat,” Jim Manley, a former Democratic Senate aide and longtime McConnell observer, told me. “He wants to keep the focus on the Dem-on-Dem violence.”"

Yep. McConnell is a weasel but he knows full well that if you give Democrats' enough time they'll **** themselves without any effort on his part.

 

[Mr Person]

Why is paying the bills for the money he spent seen as 'caving'? It's McConnel's responsibility, and the responsibility of every Congressman.

Generally speaking, it shouldn't be. But the GOP decided to play games with it in a bid to force the Democrats to raise the debt limit by a specific trillion+ figure, in order to give Fox something to lie about to its base. In circumstances like that, it's reasonable to call their (temporary) abandoning of the plot "caving".

 

[mike2810]

That is certainly something that may have crossed Mitch's mind. I bet he is quite determined to see his party gain control of the House and Senate next year.

the reality is it is not up to anyone in Congress. It will be up to the voters to elect who they want for Congress.

Unless the election is rigged. You know its the only way Republicans can lose. rigged election.

 

[gbg3]

McConnell needs to go.

This is the worst of all worlds. He should’ve forced the democrats to use the reconciliation process because they would’ve caved and done it

So many are agreeing with you that McConnell needs to go. I certainly think he's got too big of a dose of swamp in him.

 

[gbg3]

McConnell basically thinks that the polls are in his favor and that it's counterproductive to threaten the Dems with a fiscal cliffhanger. He's probably right.

I agree. I'd guess his logic is the "hand them a rope and get out of the way" logic. In that way, I think he's making a darn good bet.

 

[gbg3]

As someone who's a progressive and who thinks McConnell is destructive, I can only hope that a majority of your party feels that way.

McConnell, by miles, has done more to advance the causes you care about more than Trump or any other GOP official. As much as I can't stand him, I acknowledge his political genius. He's a mastermind. A five-dimensional chess player.

And such a quiet one. He says so little and speaks infrequently. When he does speak up, I listen carefully to what he says to try to figure out his thinking. I find him quite interesting in his oh so calm manner.
I think I mentioned it already in this thread, but we'll really have to wait all the way until November to see if his long game/plan/goal works out. Prior to that, we'll learn if BBB passes. I think that would be very bad news for the country if it does but, conversely, a political boost to the GOP's chances in 2022. My guess is McConnell very much wants to see it not pass. But, as far as Republicans taking back the House and Senate, we have to wait 11 months to learn how that turns out for McConnell and gang.

 

[Callen]

We'll see what happens. I'm certain he has the other 9 votes but it is likely those not running in 2022. McConnell is pretty shrewd politically but this move was pretty transparent. Making the Dems "go it alone" without GOP votes after they give them the votes so they can "go it alone."

 

[gbg3]

the reality is it is not up to anyone in Congress. It will be up to the voters to elect who they want for Congress

I'm sure McConnell is closely watching (and gauging) voter sentiment. He's probably pretty experienced at avoiding a wishful thinking view and maintaining a realistic view.
If he thinks the Dems have taken themselves into a troubling place in voter sentiment, I certainly share that view.
Here on DP, we hear things like there's a lot of time left (well, not until November 2022), the Independents can easily and quickly change their minds (well, not once confidence has fallen too far), or the polls are just wrong (well, polls tend to lean a tad left according to recent history, but they often do a good job - even when I don't like what they say).

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I agree. I'd guess his logic is the "hand them a rope and get out of the way" logic. In that way, I think he's making a darn good bet.

I think it’s a bad bet. The democrats have the majority. They would take the blame for anything that happens with the debt ceiling. Especially since the only reason they wouldn’t pass it on their own is because they want to pass a more unpopular bill with a 51 vote majority

 

[gbg3]

I think it’s a bad bet. The democrats have the majority. They would take the blame for anything that happens with the debt ceiling. Especially since the only reason they wouldn’t pass it on their own is because they want to pass a more unpopular bill with a 51 vote majority

You certainly aren't alone in thinking it a bad bet. Many a conservative, both in and out of Congress, hates it.
My feelings are mixed. Once upon a time, I thought of McConnell as brilliant. Now I view him as far too swampy - thanks to Trump for giving everyone a good view of the swamp and simply refusing to jump into it as they almost all do. (One of Trump's VERY BEST qualities, IMO, and the main reason I think he maintains such a huge following.)
So, I'm in wait and see mode with McConnell's decision. He's far more intelligent politically than I am. If BBB passes, I'll be quite annoyed with him despite my feeling that its passage would up the GOP 2022 chances significantly. I think it's a terrible bill that will make inflation all the worse. And I'm now really feeling inflation, even as someone in a stable and adequate financial position. Inflation is now glaring even in my life, and I think back to how really terrible it would have been in our poor years. So, despite the advantage I think the passage of BBB would give the GOP, I hate the bill and think it would be terrible for the country. And, even if it fails to pass, I still think the GOP is sitting in an excellent political position. I think the Dem party is truly in trouble and it's all their own doing. I think that's likely McConnell's calculus too.

 

[multivita-man]

You certainly aren't alone in thinking it a bad bet. Many a conservative, both in and out of Congress, hates it.
My feelings are mixed. Once upon a time, I thought of McConnell as brilliant. Now I view him as far too swampy - thanks to Trump for giving everyone a good view of the swamp and simply refusing to jump into it as they almost all do. (One of Trump's VERY BEST qualities, IMO, and the main reason I think he maintains such a huge following.)
So, I'm in wait and see mode with McConnell's decision. He's far more intelligent politically than I am. If BBB passes, I'll be quite annoyed with him despite my feeling that its passage would up the GOP 2022 chances significantly. I think it's a terrible bill that will make inflation all the worse. And I'm now really feeling inflation, even as someone in a stable and adequate financial position. Inflation is now glaring even in my life, and I think back to how really terrible it would have been in our poor years. So, despite the advantage I think the passage of BBB would give the GOP, I hate the bill and think it would be terrible for the country. And, even if it fails to pass, I still think the GOP is sitting in an excellent political position. I think the Dem party is truly in trouble and it's all their own doing. I think that's likely McConnell's calculus too.

My hunch is that McConnell sees fear in the moderate Democratic wing of the party. Consider what happened yesterday: he got Democrats to vote against the President -- on a vaccine mandate. That tells you that the Democrats are a party struggling to find an identity, and they are increasingly getting impatient with each other. The establishment Dems are terrified at the poll numbers they're seeing. They're not seeing just the loss of Congress but an epic ass kicking on the horizon.

This is what Mitch is seeing. His thinking is, "Okay, fine, get your little debt ceiling and government funding out of the way for now. You guys don't have the votes for BBB, and I know it." <wry turtle grin, as he opens up a bottle of Kentucky bourbon> Mitch has what the Trump wing of the party does not: discipline.

Longer term, though, he has a serious problem within his own party once the Republicans regain power. He's not considered angry enough, not extreme enough, and that's not going away.

 

[Questerr]

The other option is “collapse the value of the US dollar by the US defaulting on its debts”.

Anyone advocate for that?

 

[mike2810]

I'm sure McConnell is closely watching (and gauging) voter sentiment. He's probably pretty experienced at avoiding a wishful thinking view and maintaining a realistic view.
If he thinks the Dems have taken themselves into a troubling place in voter sentiment, I certainly share that view.
Here on DP, we hear things like there's a lot of time left (well, not until November 2022), the Independents can easily and quickly change their minds (well, not once confidence has fallen too far), or the polls are just wrong (well, polls tend to lean a tad left according to recent history, but they often do a good job - even when I don't like what they say).

I can say that I for one have grown increasingly concerned with the direction the AZ Republican Party is going. I am also concerned with some others in other States like MTGreene. imo, Trump ruined the Republican Party.

 

[multivita-man]

I can say that I for one have grown increasingly concerned with the direction the AZ Republican Party is going. I am also concerned with some others in other States like MTGreene. imo, Trump ruined the Republican Party.

Nah, sorry, I don't buy that one. The Republican establishment thought they could train wolves, and now those wolves are growling at them at the dinner table.

 

[multivita-man]

We'll see what happens. I'm certain he has the other 9 votes but it is likely those not running in 2022. McConnell is pretty shrewd politically but this move was pretty transparent. Making the Dems "go it alone" without GOP votes after they give them the votes so they can "go it alone."

McConnell also saw something in the most recent elections: Republicans need to be less unhinged if they are to win *statewide* races. McConnell wants the party to save the bark-at-the-moon stuff for deep red states and deep red districts where Democrats have no chance, but in states that factor heavily in retaking the Senate and winning the WH in 2024, he needs them to avoid own-goals. He's seen that shutdowns and debt-ceiling standoffs generally don't work out well, even though they excite the base. There are better ways to excite the base by doing what Glenn Youngkin did, which is convince suburbanites that GOP candidates aren't nuts - and win back offices.

This creates a tension with the House, which was already hyper-partisan from the gerrymandered districts that resulted after 2010's election and will become even more partisan starting in 2022. McConnell can ignore the tension for now. He doesn't care what Kevin McCarthy thinks, and it's increasingly unclear if McCarthy will win the House Speaker post should the GOP retake the House. One thing McConnell can brag about is that, unlike the House, there's no Senate investigation into January 6th.

 

[mrjurrs]

McConnell has caved on the debt ceiling but I wonder if Republicans will see it that way. He agreed to a bill that will allow the debt ceiling to pass the Senate with just 51 votes. That way the debt ceiling gets raised without the Dems using reconciliation. It gets rid of the filibuster in this instance. A couple of things strike me, first, it shows that McConnell is willing to get rid of the filibuster if it suits his political need. Second, he thinks that Republicans are dumb enough to see this as McConnell sticking to his guns about making the Dems " go it alone" on the debt ceiling.

McConnell is willing to pay bills already accrued. Other R's are not. They are willing to shutdown the economy and possibly trash America's position as the global reserve currency for political power. They are fake Americans.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Nah, sorry, I don't buy that one. The Republican establishment thought they could train wolves, and now those wolves are growling at them at the dinner table.

I agree with both of you, actually. - Trump ruined the GOP, and the GOP enabled the procrss by assuming they'd have better control of the fringe element.

Fortunately for the GOP the Democrats continue to infight and maintain their general affinity for political ineptitude.