• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Maximum wage and the work force

Maximum wage will never happen for execs and business owners, never ever. The laws are made by and for those people, so why would they limit their own pocket books like that. The corporate layer of the economy is already ceaselessly absorbing money and not putting it back into the system.

Our economic practice has no concept of fair wage. People think fair wage means that people are entitled to a minimum. But why does the executive of a corporation make something like $100 billion per year while his employees are paid only competitive salaries or what is proscribed by law? As long as 2% of the world owns 40-60% of the total wealth, we aren't going anywhere.

The recession has done one thing, it has freed up the labour market to be cheaper than ever. Maybe we'll become competitive with China after all! There are enough desperate people out there now who would work for $3/hr just to make SOMETHING. And there sure are a lot of bachelor and masters degree holders out there now who can't find work or who can only find minimum wage jobs.

The way the dollar is inflating, it doesn't matter what you set the wage to. Your money won't buy the same amount of stuff 6 months from now. But it seems that America is ready to sell even its standard of living and employee rights in order to prop up the almighty dollar. Irony at its finest.
 
Last edited:
I posted this

Nobody pays for their citizenship. It is free to all who qualify under the Constitution.

Your fundamental lack of even a basic understanding of the American Constitution is rather frightening. But it does explain many of your unique 'views'.
Click to expand...

In his response, Turtle quoted my remarks and said this in reply


you just claimed that taxation was a cost of that citizenship
Click to expand...

There is nothing in my statement that you quoted which say anything of the kind. You have been told repeatedly by many here that citizenship is free.

Earlier, in post #243, I said this


If that is what you are referring to, you again fail to comprehend what you read.

You are confusing my statement with the fact that a civilized society needs people to pay taxes to maintain that level of social peace and utilitarian function with your ideological belief that some must must pay a price to be an American citizen and enjoy the basic Constitutional rights of a citizen. My statement applies TO EVERY SOCIETY on the face of the earth that is civilized and has people living in an organized and functioning society. It is not to be confused with citizenship rights in any particular nation.

There is a price to pay for living in a civilized society and we pay in a variety of ways - taxation being one of them. That includes a variety of forms of taxation to a variety of governmental levels. Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes said exactly this

Taxes are the price we pay for civilization.
Click to expand...

You will note that he also used the term "civilization" and not "citizenship".

There is no price of citizenship to be an American and and no price to pay to enjoy your basic rights which are protected for ALL citizens.
 
Last edited:

the government has no business telling business what they should pay anyone
 

you constantly rant that taxes are the cost of citizenship but you spend most of your time whining that its "fair" for some to not only pay for their own share of the costs but to pay for most of the costs incurred by others
 
TurtleDude said:
the government has no business telling business what they should pay anyone
Click to expand...

The government - and that includes governments on a local, state and national level - has long played a role in helping and assisting business in a variety of ways that reaps significant financial benefits to them. it is right and proper that government have a voice in other matters which impact business and the American people as well, especially when it is the money of the American people which help subsidize business.
 
TurtleDude said:
you constantly rant that taxes are the cost of citizenship but you spend most of your time whining that its "fair" for some to not only pay for their own share of the costs but to pay for most of the costs incurred by others
Click to expand...

Again you badly fail to comprehend just what it is that is being said. Taxes are a price we pay to live in a civilized society. Justice Holmes said that and he was right on the money. This is true for ANY civilized society regardless if it is the USA, Canada, South Africa, Japan or over a hundred others. There is NO price to pay for citizenship or to exercise the rights granted to all American citizens under the Constitution.

For some reason, you continually fail to comprehend or understand that these are two very different things.
 

helping and assisting is the new socialist speak for control and demanding

since you believe that if government subsidizes a corporation, that means the masses-through their representatives-should have a say in salaries should we who subsidize the untalented and unproductive have some control over the unhealthy and costly life choices those people make-such as limiting their breeding or junk food consumption?
 


again if someone points out the oozing socialist nonsense of your views you scream about a failure to comprehend. If you really were so much smarter than me you'd be the one making the big bucks and paying the big tax bills Haymarket.

since citizenship is free why do some have to pay so much more for it while others don't pay much if anything for it
 

There is a huge difference between paying taxes to live in a civilized society as Justice Holmes observed and having to pay to buy your rights of citizenship. One exists - the other does not exist. To have to repeatedly point this out to you is indeed your failure to comprehend. And again, you income, real or imagined, actual or made up, means nothing to this debate and one has to wonder why you continue to flaunt this as if it actually means something?

No one has to pay for their rights of citizenship here. Nobody. So nobody pays more or less since nobody pays at all.

Again, you fail to comprehend what is being discussed.
Again, you fail to comprehend what is being explained to you.
Again, you fail to comprehend what is in plain English on your own computer screen.

You keep proclaiming and beating your chest proudly telling everyone how smart you are. You boast and brag about your Ivy League education. You trumpet your law degree and your profession to anyone who will lend an ear. But yet in post after post, in thread after thread, on topic after topic you fail to comprehend the differences between basic things that an eighth grader in a middle school civics course is expected to know.
 

Boy oh boy but did you jump for A to Z in one leap.

Beyond that I have little idea why you are getting at. Try explaining it a bit more thoroughly.
 
representation without taxation leads to representatives who pander to those who don't pay taxes by promising higher rates upon those who do
 
haymarket said:
Boy oh boy but did you jump for A to Z in one leap.

Beyond that I have little idea why you are getting at. Try explaining it a bit more thoroughly.
Click to expand...

its easy to understand for anyone who is a net tax payer.

if the "people" through their representatives gain the power to regulate business salaries based on tax dollars flowing to those businesses then we who pay taxes ought to have control over the expensive choices those who are subsidized by our tax dollars engage in
 
Laws are made by business owners? What?
FYI, we have a free society, we fought for our liberty to own things and make money. This is in contrast to historical societies where governments prevented everyone else from owning or making money by law.

You have the freedom to do it, despite your attempts to claim you don't.

People who are in denial usually don't get far, that's true. Unfortunately people have no one to blame but themselves. The typical motto I hear from people about their job? "Do as little work as possible for as much compensation as possible". Recipe for failure.

Yeah, all those americans that are "too good" for the available jobs, sitting on unending unemployment....yeah, they are JUST like the poor in China. Lol.
 
Temporal said:
The corporate layer of the economy is already ceaselessly absorbing money and not putting it back into the system.
Click to expand...

What do you call investing?


Define fair wage and explain why executive salary holds us back from growth, because it has been going on for a long time and we grow.


The problem is that we have not altered the structure of production. We are still trying to maintain the older system when a newer system would respond to the reality of today.


How does inflation "prop up the almighty dollar"? Inflation kills the strength of a currency.
 
from Turtle

its easy to understand for anyone who is a net tax payer.
Click to expand...

Oh brother!!! It has been explained to you over and over and over again, in post after post after post, in thread after thread, on different subjects that you continually hijack to make the same tired argument - there is no such thing as your ideal net taxpayer. There are so many different taxes in America, paid to different levels of government, and we all absorb different rates of services at different stages of our lives that almost all of us defy your placing us in your little boxes with labels on us.

But do continue to keep saying the same things over and over and over again. Every time you do it makes a point. For you, it is sadly NOT the one you think you are making.
 

people less educated on the subject are not "explaining" any thing to me anymore than a dog barking at a tree is conveying useful information to the owner of the woods
 
TurtleDude said:
people less educated on the subject are not "explaining" any thing to me anymore than a dog barking at a tree is conveying useful information to the owner of the woods
Click to expand...

I do not see how anyone could be less educated that you are on the subject of taxes.
You have repeatedly demonstrated that you do NOT understand the purposes of taxation.
You do NOT understand the different forms of taxation.
You do NOT understand the origins of the progressive income tax.
You do NOT understand the bipartisan nature and support for the progressive income tax.
You do NOT understand the difference between shopping at a retail store and paying taxes.
You do NOT understand the basic difference between taxes as paying for a civilized society and the twisted concept of paying for citizenship rights.

When you get right down to it Turtle, what you fail to understand could fill a book.
 

all lies-remind me your legal training in taxation

I don't agree with your mindless socialist drivel
I don't agree with a progressive tax system because it allows the politicians to pander to non tax payers using the wealth of the top brackets to buy the votes of themany

you don't have a degree in law, or from a top university and you were a HS teacher. your posts are mindless talking points and you confuse disagreement with not understanding.
 

You labor under the misbelief that your education and your profession give you knowledge and insight.

In your case, your obvious lack of knowledge and understanding which you have demonstrated for quite a long time now shows clearly and beyond any doubt that a formal education - no matter from where - and a license from the state - no matter to do what with - can be acquired and you can still be woefully ignorant and ill informed about certain things. In your case we have and supposed Ivy League educated attorney who does not know beans about the reality of the tax system in the USA.

You have stated repeatedly when cornered that you are not arguing about the system as it IS TODAY - but rather on what YOU BELIEVE it should be.

Your education means nothing in view of your opinions which betray and any actual knowledge.
Your profession means nothing in view of your opinions which betray and actual understanding of the nation you live in.

Ideology and your subsequent willfully imposed extremist belief system has trumped both your education and your professional experience. That is sad but true.
 
Last edited:

your frantic attempts to try to convince yourself that you actually are well educated on this subject are amusing
 
TurtleDude said:
your frantic attempts to try to convince yourself that you actually are well educated on this subject are amusing
Click to expand...

Come right out and tell us why some class you took in college means anything special other than you just do not understand taxation in America as every one of your posts on the subject indicates?

You badly confuse some class you took years ago with being able to defend your ideas today. And you simply cannot. All you do is profess beliefs and brag about your money and education. being an elitist snob give not one ounce of credibility to an otherwise weak position based on your own beliefs.

Try debating instead of pontificating for a change.
 


tax law
corporations
partnerships
individual income

how about you

I don't have a weak position-you are not the one who has won in this economy

and it is you who acts like the frantic peasant
 
TurtleDude said:
tax law
corporations
partnerships
individual income

how about you

I don't have a weak position-you are not the one who has won in this economy

and it is you who acts like the frantic peasant
Click to expand...

And what does the specialized information presented before you in these classes do for you on this site? When we discuss the progressive income tax, how does that class you took give you any insight or information that anyone else cannot get through research and reading?

None of those classes deal in fantasy. They all deal in reality. you have repeatedly told everyone here that you do not care about the way the system really is or how it functions now but rather you have a vision for how it should function in the future if your schemes and dreams would ever be adopted. How does a class in law school on "partnerships" give you any special expertise when we discuss the foundations of American government or the role of the American people in politics and government?

It doesn't.

All you are attempting to do is brag and self-promote you as you. And it has nothing to do with actual debate or actual substance of any issues.

As to your claims of economic superiority, I have already informed you that I am successful and I am economically in a very good position. Of course, your reply is to say you do not believe that.

Again, no debate is possible with you when you set yourself us as some sort of little god here and nobody can contend with you because all you have to say is that you do not believe them.

This site is NOT about BELIEFS. It is about debate.
 
Last edited:
suck it up buttercup...if you live here, your gonna pay taxes, don't like it? move... arent you the one who was bragging about how many 'thousands' of dollars you make every couple of days by supposedly being a lawyer? quit your whining. just because you may make more money than someone, doesnt make you 'special'....sorry, it doesnt.
 

the looter mentality on display.

and having more money is not a moral argument to have to pay more when you get nothing in return

stop demanding others carry your load
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…