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Maxed Out

The debt's got to be paid.

To Who?

That is the big question. There is all of this concern about the debt, but who do we actually owe it too? So looking at a debt of $28 Trillionish...

22% of it Intragovernmental holdings. So that is over 8 1/2 Trillion that the Government owes to itself. What is the value of that debt?

Of the rest of it... the 78% that is public holdings. The Federal Reserve holds a little over $7 Trillion of that piece of the pie.... so what is the value of that debt?

So we are looking at a over $15 Trillion of that debt basically owed to ourselves. And yes... the rest is an enormous sum of money but seeing as how the largest foreign holder of US debt is Japan... it doesn't seem quite as scary.
 
...and when do you project that to happen?
.
Our expenditures are unsustainable. The thing about things that are unsustainable is that they will not be sustained. No, not even if we really really super duper think it would be much better for us if they were.

We are getting fat eating our seed corn, insisting to naysayers that we are surrounded by food....
 
To Who?

That is the big question. There is all of this concern about the debt, but who do we actually owe it too? So looking at a debt of $28 Trillionish...

22% of it Intragovernmental holdings. So that is over 8 1/2 Trillion that the Government owes to itself. What is the value of that debt?

Of the rest of it... the 78% that is public holdings. The Federal Reserve holds a little over $7 Trillion of that piece of the pie.... so what is the value of that debt?

So we are looking at a over $15 Trillion of that debt basically owed to ourselves. And yes... the rest is an enormous sum of money but seeing as how the largest foreign holder of US debt is Japan... it doesn't seem quite as scary.

Fair enough. Let's have the Social Security recipients just forgive that debt, then.
 
Fair enough. Let's have the Social Security recipients just forgive that debt, then.

Why would they need to forgive that debt? As I said... we owe it to ourselves.
 
Why would they need to forgive that debt? As I said... we owe it to ourselves.


Doing so typically leads to higher inflation, and making the dollar depreciate. Now lucky for the US, other countries will depreciate the currencies as well
 
Doing so typically leads to higher inflation, and making the dollar depreciate. Now lucky for the US, other countries will depreciate the currencies as well

We haven't really seen inflation yet.
 
Why would they need to forgive that debt? As I said... we owe it to ourselves.
Exactly. So, if paying is a problem, let's just forgive it, right? :)
 
Minor tweaks in the payroll tax code would shore it up pretty well.
Another interesting claim. What do the Medicare and Medicaid trustees say about it?
 
Minor tweaks in the payroll tax code would shore it up pretty well.
Why have a payroll tax at all if the US can borrow all it needs from the fed?
 
Our expenditures are unsustainable. The thing about things that are unsustainable is that they will not be sustained. No, not even if we really really super duper think it would be much better for us if they were.

We are getting fat eating our seed corn, insisting to naysayers that we are surrounded by food....
Okay Chicken Little, when do we put our hardhats on?
 
Okay Chicken Little, when do we put our hardhats on?
:) Hardly Chicken Little. As for when - that's the 100 Trillion Dollar Question, I suppose. The last I saw the Trustees reports, the system was going to start buckling in the 2030s, but, that was before we decided to toss 4 trillion at COVID.
 
Why have a payroll tax at all if the US can borrow all it needs from the fed?

If the concern is inflation and Social Security is a pay go system them the inlays of taxation and outflows of direct payments should be close to equilibrium too avoid inflation.

No one has said that the US can borrow all it needs from the Fed. The US doesn't borrow any money from the Fed. That is not how any of this works.
 
Sure, but if you're living off the credit card and you're going to restructure, you buy up the last few things you need.

I would prefer we pay cash on the barrel too.

In the past, I DID live off the credit card.

I recall realizing that if I didn't pay off the credit card to zero every month, I'd be paying for that cheeseburger bought in the Hilton Hawaiian Village for the rest of my life.

Paid it off. Haven't been back to the Hilton Hawaiian Village since or seen the lovely young lady that accompanied me for a long while. Both the girl and the cheeseburger were quite enjoyable. So is the current financial stability.

We make choices. My individual choices are informed by my experience and seem to get more beneficial over time.

The decisions of our government are continuously more stupid on every succeeding day in every perceivable way in any area you might care to cite.

What's wrong with this picture?
 
In the past, I DID live off the credit card.

I recall realizing that if I didn't pay off the credit card to zero every month, I'd be paying for that cheeseburger bought in the Hilton Hawaiian Village for the rest of my life.

Paid it off. Haven't been back to the Hilton Hawaiian Village since or seen the lovely young lady that accompanied me for a long while. Both the girl and the cheeseburger were quite enjoyable. So is the current financial stability.

We make choices. My individual choices are informed by my experience and seem to get more beneficial over time.

The decisions of our government are continuously more stupid on every succeeding day in every perceivable way in any area you might care to cite.

What's wrong with this picture?

The US Sovereign debt is not like household debt.
 
We kinda cant run out of money.
 
:) Hardly Chicken Little. As for when - that's the 100 Trillion Dollar Question, I suppose. The last I saw the Trustees reports, the system was going to start buckling in the 2030s, but, that was before we decided to toss 4 trillion at COVID.
So, you are guessing. Take the cap off earnings subject to tax. Not solved, but a direct assault on the problem. Why allow high-earners (who are also able to take advantage tax advantaged retirement plans) to stop paying?
 
The same thing in Zimbabwe

They have so much money they use it for toilet paper
To answer in another way that isnt as “ooh i discovered this shiny thing” way most MMTers describe it the limit on the money supply is when inflation hits.
 
To answer in another way that isnt as “ooh i discovered this shiny thing” way most MMTers describe it the limit on the money supply is when inflation hits.


It is a fine balance when using a fiat currency. Between deflationary pressures and monetary inflation. China has presented large deflationary pressures on many goods and services due to its emergence as a manufacturing powerhouse. That has lead to relatively low inflation on goods, but at the same time we have seen mass inflation on assets, from housing to stocks and bonds.
 
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